Sauber Make Suprise Switch to Honda Power for F1 2018

[Smartbean]

I'm in two minds about this;

On one hand it seems a good move to move away from the year old engines Sauber have been using the past years, I mean come on, your a year down in development from day 1 of the season and there are limit to development of that engine as well.

On the other hand, it's definitely a gamble with the reliability issues of Honda so far since their return to F1 vs the reliability of the Ferrari engine.

I think it's interesting to see how it pans out really, even though Sauber is the team I support I do also appreciate McLaren Honda and hoped they faired better with Alonso and Button, certainly last year.

I also have confidence in Honda, they've proven throughout their history in the sport that they can make very competetive F1 spec engines, so I would say let's hope for the best and who knows, maybe Kobayashi can make a comeback to Sauber as well

 

[Boby Kim]

Say wut?

 

[Erwin Greven]

I also have confidence in Honda, they've proven throughout their history in the sport that they can make very competetive F1 spec engines, so I would say let's hope for the best and who knows, ...

Season 2014: Hopeless. Too slow and too unreliable
Season 2015: Hopeless. Too slow and too unreliable
Season 2016: Small improvement, but still too slow and too unreliable.
Season 2017: Hopeless: Too slow and too unreliable.

Do you see a pattern? How can you be confident that they can build a very competitive F1 engine under these 2017 specs? Stoffel Vandoorne finished today. 14th. He is the first of both drivers who actually saw the checker this season.

 

[RustyDriver00]

I think they may end up being the Honda works team, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Mclaren back with Mercedes next year, so it seems logical for Honda to partner with someone else instead of abandoning their engine program all together which would be a much bigger disgrace for them.

 

[Smartbean]

Season 2014: Hopeless. Too slow and too unreliable
Season 2015: Hopeless. Too slow and too unreliable
Season 2016: Small improvement, but still too slow and too unreliable.
Season 2017: Hopeless: Too slow and too unreliable.

Do you see a pattern? How can you be confident that they can build a very competitive F1 engine under these 2017 specs? Stoffel Vandoorne finished today. 14th. He is the first of both drivers who actually saw the checker this season.

Yes, recent history isn't a bright picture, hence I referred to history as a whole... 2x Constructor Champions with Williams (1986, 1987) and 4x Constructor Champions with McLaren (1988, 1989, 1990, 1991)

 

[RichardHessels]

Yes, recent history isn't a bright picture, hence I referred to history as a whole... 2x Constructor Champions with Williams (1986, 1987) and 4x Constructor Champions with McLaren (1988, 1989, 1990, 1991)

That was a whole different era, compared to huge amount of extra electrical systems they need to manage nowadays. Mercedes and Ferrari been actively competing in auto-sports for a long time. Producing extremely powerfull engines for everyday use in large quantities. That gives so much extra knowhow and facilities they can use.

 

[Lino Carreira]

So many engineers in this thread

 

[Neilski]

This is simply a ploy from McLaren to ensure that there are some cars on the grid that are even worse than them.

 

[thewarmer]

Honda's first Turbo PU back in the 80's was a unreliable engine , running in a lower budget team , even when Williams pick them up a few years after it then had the power but still broke to many times. things only started coming together over the next few seasons running up to 86 the rest is History after that.

So working on that time line Honda have still got plenty of time to bring their PU up to the leading teams standard's.

Honda have a good pedigree in F1 but Honda several years out of F1 & it would have been crazy to think they could have been running at the front from day one.

Not sure McLaren going back to Mercedes would lead to them challenging for the Championship , it is not like Mercedes are going to supplie them with equal spec customer engine to the Factory cars.

Also Mclaren could end up looking really stupid should Honda they solve all its design issues limiting the current engine.

Honda have to step up their development program , having a 2nd team on tap will help them there , I think even McLaren can see how that could work in their faver & shows Honda are willing to take that gamble to .

That for me shows a big commitment from Honda to take on all the extra work needed to build PU's for two teams , even more so if Honda are giving them a free engine deal until they solve their current issues.

I wont hang Honda out quite yet to dry , I am sure they will come up with some thing that will move them up the grid over the next 18 months.

 

[Peter Klawitter]

I am sure for Sauber it was a financial decision only, old Ferrari engine, worthless anyways and super expensive for Sauber...with Honda, i am sure they got a sweet deal and doesn't change much for them, 0 points with old crappy Ferrari engine, can't get worst with Honda, 0 points again or maybe not, at least worth the gamble and saving millions to use elsewhere in their team rather than spending it on old crappy Ferrari engines...customer engine supply around 20million euros supposed to go down with the capping system in place to 12million euros, but surely Sauber is getting a better deal for 2018 for Honda, and that way Honda can experiment even more, sadly...but who knows. (like in McLaren, they can't just get rid of Honda, because Honda is paying tons and lots of other stuff in McLaren, like partially salaries of the drivers and etc..)

all which is left to say for SAUBER for 2018...good luck to you all at Sauber with Honda in 2018!

 

[Thomas Lambaerts]

I don't think it is a great move, unless the engines would be to expensive in their new contract. Ferrari might have asked a little more. But if not, I think it might have been better to stick with Ferrari engines. What engine would they getting next year? Right, this year's one. How fast is it? front row fast... In the end, I think it is all a financial decision.

 

[RichardHessels]

I don't think it is a great move, unless the engines would be to expensive in their new contract. Ferrari might have asked a little more. But if not, I think it might have been better to stick with Ferrari engines. What engine would they getting next year? Right, this year's one. How fast is it? front row fast... In the end, I think it is all a financial decision.

A little bit more? As in only 50 million...

 

[el chasco]

Is a joke no?

If Sauber with Ferrari engines are the last cars, with Honda is a sadomasochistic suicide xD

 

[F_B]

Why not? Perhaps in the fourth year Honda can improve their engine, who knows.
For me it's a win-win-situation: Honda will have a second team to get data from and Sauber can only improve. They are last now, it can just get better for them 2018.

 

[Dovi design]

BTW, Sauber will use McLaren's gearbox starting next year

 

[Andrew Harper]

Like some of those on here I'm split on the decision.

Sauber in a way have nothing to lose, they are suffering with a year old engine which is very expensive. They'll get a works deal for probably less money. As above I would imagine they'll get the rear end from the McLaren as well.

The danger is as mentioned above, Honda don't seem to be learning. I still think if the engines were just N/A or turbo they would be fine. I think they are just suffering from getting the hybrid tech to work.

Now this is where possibly Sauber may have a small advantage over McLaren. It's no secret that McLaren have almost forced Honda to package their engine into an area that's causing all sorts of problems in the packaging department. Thus causing overheating, electrical problems, etc.

If Sauber are more willing to co-operate with Honda on the car design side it may work out better for them than McLaren.

I'm not saying that's the case now but it certainly was the case in the beginning. The engine was quite good but the packaging of the car didn't allow all the systems adequate cooling, so they kept having to turn the engine down all the time to save it.

Fingers crossed for both Honda, and their teams that 2018 is a better year.

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

Given the situation Sauber is in(continuously fighting for survival, dead last on the grid), this is a good move.

They embrace Honda, give Matsushita a drive and at least they won't go bankrupt, from then on they can improve together with Honda.

 

[Tim Meuris]

they are last anyway with those old ferrari engines.

if honda manages to sort things out maybe sauber can battle with the midpack

if not, they are still last and have moneywise a better engine deal.

 

[Ghoults]

I think that is not a surprise. Last year's Ferrari is no better than Honda. And I am fairly certain that Honda will make things right soon as such a big company can't fail so much.

Have you been watching the same races as I have? Last year ferrari was engine was clearly the second best engine (and reliable) whereas this year's hondas barely manage to survive a free practice session. Last year's ferrari is miles ahead of honda. One could even say honda was the worst by a country mile last season and this season they are not any better and have worst reliability you can imagine for an f1 engine. Out of 4 races and 8 possible finishes hondas have broken 2 times before the race and not finished a race 3 more times. Out of 8 possible races they have managed to finish just 3 times. How can proven last year's ferrari be worse than that?

Clearly from what we know now the year old ferrari (2017 ferrari engine in 2018 for sauber) would be better choice. At least if you look just the engine. But if honda is significantly cheaper then it could be worth it financially for sauber to take hondas and finish last in one third of the races while not starting in the rest.

But miracles do happen. Ferrari have taken massive step ahead from 2016 to 2017 so it is possible honda can perform miracles and be competitive in 2018 (for sure lol). I don't believe it but ferrari did it this year. But unlike ferrari - Honda has not shown even once that it could be competitive. They are constantly behind in everything, their reliability is horrible and they can't even develop the engines because they are constantly just solving reliability issues.