Sauber In Talks With Honda

Bethonie Waring · Mar 31, 2017

Sauber could switch to Honda power in 2018, and that might not be a bad move.

No deal has been signed, but the team is evaluating its engine supplier options for next season. Team principal Monisha Kaltenborn confirmed Sauber has had discussions with Honda about engine supply, but it’s understood Mercedes and Ferrari are also being considered.

The team, which finished tenth in the constructors’ championship last season, currently runs year old Ferrari engines.

“All I can tell you is, yes, we have had discussions with [Honda],” Kaltenborn told Autosport. “But we are open on our engine situation. I think we have a couple of options.

“We know that a call has to be made soon. We know that, and of course the sooner you have clarity, the better for development.”

With Honda failing to make any progress since returning to Formula One in 2015, moving from even year old Ferrari engines to Honda power doesn’t seem like the greatest of moves, but it could work well financially for Sauber.

The team finished 2016 only one point ahead of Manor in the constructors’ championship and, with Manor no longer running, it’s widely predicted Sauber will finish bottom of the table, so moving backwards isn’t really possible.

Honda currently supply McLaren with free engines and, whilst it’s impossible to say what a deal between Sauber and Honda would involve, free or reduce cost engines are a possibility and one that Sauber would definitely welcome. Even just sponsorship would be a massive boost for the team.

Mercedes power is another alternative for Sauber. With Pascal Wehrlein on board, there is the possibility of a subsidised engines from the German manufacturer.

The deadline for manufacturers to notify the FIA of teams they wish to supply is May 6th.

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Do you think Sauber should switch to Honda power? Let us know your thoughts in the comments below.

Terry Rock · Mar 31, 2017

Wait!....what?
LOL

If I were running Sauber, I'd go for the deal.
It'd be tied to a 'performance clause' by which Honda would have to agree to pick up the year's operating cost, should no points be scored through engine unreliability.
That would ensure Sauber's survival for at least another year, should Honda not step up their game.

Benutzername · Mar 31, 2017

The last part of the article is always about rb abke to catch up. Is that intended or a mistske?

-

I hearf tha Mclaren wants that deal to be able to get out of their contract to go back to Mercedes. Excellent for McLaren.

But i fear a switch to honda would mean the end for the sauber team

samcar304 · Mar 31, 2017

Sauber plz

F1Aussie · Mar 31, 2017

Are they fricken serious?!!

Matt Orr · Apr 1, 2017

For a team in Sauber's position, if the engines are basically free or deeply discounted, they'd be fools not to take the deal.

And I quote :
"The team, which finished tenth in the constructors’ championship last season, currently runs year old Ferrari engines."

Or in other words, their engine is crap now, they finished last of the teams that still exist and will probably finish last of the teams that still exist at the end of the year. You can't finish further behind than last, so the only way to go is up. They cannot get any worse - they can get slower, they can get more unreliable, but last is still last.

If Honda is so pushy for a 2nd team, that means they want to be involved and put mileage and development on the engine and make a serious push to make their engine good - in which case, what if - very big if - Honda ends up making a really good power unit?

You can either continue to finish last and likely disappear into history, or dare to try and finish not last by taking a tremendous risk which can send you disappearing into history, or re-establishing what the team once was as a solid mid pack team.

Nothing to lose, everything to gain.

antirussia81 · Apr 1, 2017

McLaren + Honda = McLament
Sauber + Honda = Sobber, probably...

Eugene Abramoff · Apr 1, 2017

Yeah, get that engine that was broken, so it had to be redesigned, which still turned out broken and now Honda is planning on redesigning it in 1 month. What can possibly go wrong?

TrumpetReich · Apr 1, 2017

Reports say Ron Dennis was last seen sneaking in to Sauber's headquarters last week..

Bert Austen · Apr 1, 2017

Sauber .....is already nothing

And with the crap eningine of Honda OMG...... Honda should be ashamed very to produce so a bad engine

Rodent · Apr 1, 2017

Always liked Sauber, and I agree with the sentiments above that they have nothing to loose by going Honda is the deal is sweat enough, it's not like they're fighting for podiums anyway, although I'm always hoping for another Spa 98 even if that was with the Jordans.

Also really like an idea I heard tossed around a while back about Sauber selling one of their seats to the FIA to be given to the winner of GP2 yearly. Heck Giovinazzi had his hands on a Sauber for one race and did well enough that it would surprise me if he didn't have a ride for next year once the contracts are in place. While it's not a competitive ride, it's enough to show if you've got what it takes.

Omer Said · Apr 1, 2017

I would support this move. Cheaper than Ferrari. And we don't know how much Honda will improve, and I believe they will. Ferrari gives their old engines while even Haas gets the new ones.

Jackson210906 · Apr 1, 2017

Its probably April fools

Blimey · Apr 1, 2017

Jackson210906 said:
Its probably April fools

don't say that, you will get reported and your comment removed.

aka2k · Apr 1, 2017

Unless they raise Senna from the dead, Honda is a terrible option. They screwed up BAR years ago, they are killing off McLaren slowly and they certainly will kill Sauber almost instantly.

Oddly enough, they aren't doing that bad on the Indycar side of the fence.

Andrew Harper · Apr 1, 2017

I have divided opinions on this one. It's no secret it's difficult being a mid-field team on a limited budget.

If Honda are able to supply them engines for nothing (or almost nothing) then I totally understand if they want that deal. It would also be ironic if all of sudden Honda make a sweet engine just as McLaren jump to another supplier.

There are instances in the past of this not working very well though. The obvious one I can think of is McLaren in '94. They were offered Lamborghini engines but they went with the free supply from Peugeot, it was a total disaster. The car finished less than half of it's races. The chassis was good but the engine was a hand grenade.

You can't really compare a modern F1 engine to another formula though. With the hybrid system they are just totally different but I see your point though.

thewarmer · Apr 1, 2017

Question of what is bad , a deal with no development what so ever so not a chance of ever progressing , or what looks like a equally bad move , but with a engine that is current spec & been developed to boot.

Honda need a 2nd option to at least push their development forwards quicker Sauber need some thing that is cheap to help their cash flow issues been at the back of the grid now means just how long can they stay in F1.

If Honda gave them too free units its good deal regardless of the results they are last now, with Honda they may be able to Battle with McLaren depending on how good their car is.

Should Honda start moving forwards then they could make a big step forwards. People can bash Honda for struggling to get to grips , but it took them a while to find their feet in the last Turbo Era .

The Turbo unit that would win almost every race in 1988 , started out in its first form in 1983 in the Spirit team
Plagued with issue's , before moving onto Williams were things started to come together.at the end of 85 , by 1986 they were the engine to have by 88 & the following none turbo era's they where one of the top power units to have.

For sure their big time was in the 80's & 90's Honda have had blips their last attempt was poor with BAR then under their own name if they had only stayed one more year !

Honda have such a good racing History that they can not be written off & the fact they are willing to supplies free units show's how committed they are to make things work in a sport were results mean everything.

Matt Orr · Apr 1, 2017

Andrew Harper said:
There are instances in the past of this not working very well though. The obvious one I can think of is McLaren in '94. They were offered Lamborghini engines but they went with the free supply from Peugeot, it was a total disaster. The car finished less than half of it's races. The chassis was good but the engine was a hand grenade.

McLaren in 93 was off pace, but still scoring points.

Sauber today is the weakest team on the grid now that those behind them have died off.

Andrew Harper · Apr 1, 2017

Matt Orr said:
McLaren in 93 was off pace, but still scoring points.

Sauber today is the weakest team on the grid now that those behind them have died off.

Yes that's true, in '93 they did a deal to use customer Ford engines (which you may know already anyway). Benetton had the works engine deal so the engine in the McLaren was always one or two versions behind what they had. Which also makes Senna's victories that year all the more remarkable.

Ron Dennis decided the only way to be a winner again was a works engine deal. They tested the Lamborghini/Chrysler engine (which Senna did approve of) but Ron liked the idea of the deal with Peugeot (who'd had great success with their 3.5l in their Group C car) and unfortunately it just didn't work out for them.

Odd in a way, only because it's history almost repeating itself with Honda. The idea of an exclusive engine deal, works support, etc and of course Ron was instrumental behind the deal.