Reserve drivers at club races.

[Neil Gault]

Ok this thread should of been in the old club paddock section but we ain't got one now:disapointed: either that or i have had too much brandy to find it :laugh2:

Tonight at Donington there was some confusion over which reserve drivers were able to race and what with people joining at the last minute and guys not being able to rejoin the server after dropping connection and so forth. Something needs to be done as is not the first time this has happened so what about making it a rule that all reserve drivers must log onto teamspeak to await permission if they are allowed to join the server or not?

Even if they do not have a mic they can still receive instructions and can reply using the txt chat function if need be and it would make it easier for the race organizer to get it all together.

 

[Dave Stephenson]

good call. the old reserves may join now and everyone fights for the place is the main issue i suspect in this case. I think this could be avoided by reserves having to post to the event thread at event start to say they a definately going to be there if there is space. then the event organiser should post specifically who can join at the right time in the order in which they signed up.
slight extra work making sure the reserve section of the top-post stays in the right order when people drop out but it would solve the problem and would work for those that dont use TS.

 

[Warren Dawes]

TBH, a lot of these problems are due to some people signing up and then not turning up on the racetime. That creates the reliance on reserve slots, and RD's having to organise last minute shuffles to get reserves into the event. Realistically, this generates unnecessary work and stress for RD's that shouldn't be needed.

If everyone who signs up had the respect to advise their absence prior to the event (even 30 mins before) none of these issues would arise. Ok, occasionally, we accept that people may have last minute connection issues, but, by far, it is all too common for people to sign up just to reserve their spot, and then just not show, assuming the RD's will somehow sort out the mess.

To me, it is very simple. Don't sign up unless you intend to race, and if you don't think you can make it (and there are reserves waiting), advise your absence at least 30 mins before the event. Then the veeeeeerrrry occasional problem with last minute PC problems will hardly be a problem to anyone.

 

[Mark Guy]

I must agree with Warren, just a little courtesy and 95% of the issue is solved. The other 5% being PC problems.

 

[Neil Gault]

TBH, a lot of these problems are due to some people signing up and then not turning up on the racetime. That creates the reliance on reserve slots, and RD's having to organise last minute shuffles to get reserves into the event. Realistically, this generates unnecessary work and stress for RD's that shouldn't be needed.

If everyone who signs up had the respect to advise their absence prior to the event (even 30 mins before) none of these issues would arise. Ok, occasionally, we accept that people may have last minute connection issues, but, by far, it is all too common for people to sign up just to reserve their spot, and then just not show, assuming the RD's will somehow sort out the mess.

To me, it is very simple. Don't sign up unless you intend to race, and if you don't think you can make it (and there are reserves waiting), advise your absence at least 30 mins before the event. Then the veeeeeerrrry occasional problem with last minute PC problems will hardly be a problem to anyone.

yes i know what you are trying to say but occasionally despite the best planning it does go wrong like last night when Hansi got the nod to join he managed to join briefly before loosing connection and was then unable to rejoin as someone had grabbed his place and the server was full again so being unable to communicate this to the admin he was left waiting in the dark wondering wtf was going on. So just a simple communication problem that could of been fixed in 2 minutes if something like teamspeak was being utilized.

 

[Warren Dawes]

So just a simple communication problem that could of been fixed in 2 minutes if something like teamspeak was being utilized.

I think having everyone on TS may be a help in these very rare occasions, but I can see problems with that idea too, and it is not quite that simple. We certainly encourage people to be on TS if they can, but technical issues (and other issues ) can arise here also. It also adds an unneeded burden and stress to the Race Director.
Whilst I have sympathy for the situation that Hansi ended up in in this case, I feel strongly for poor Simon, who was sacrificing his own enjoyment trying to please everyone, and then having to deal with the fallout when something went wrong. Remember that Simon is also trying to race, monitor the forum, monitor who is present on the server, and manage who might have dropped out during Qualy, and then expected to sort out why they are missing who should or shouldn't be there, try to get them to leave and try to get the disconnected player back in (hopefully), trying to manage this using in-game chat and TS all at the same time. That situation is totally unfair on Simon and would make racing for him very difficult. I think he is entitled to enjoy the race as much as others. Especially since he has already put hours of preparation into setting up the event for everyone.

TBH, it would have been far easier for Simon to have closed the server entries 30 mins before Practice, and Hansi would not have been able to join anyway. That would be a far easier solution for RD's and would help avoid these rare hick ups, and in this case Hansi would have been spared any frustration.

Maybe that is a better solution, if people can't be trusted to advise absences before hand, and would allow some small consideration to those who spend so much time organising these events.

 

[Neil Gault]

Remember that Simon is also trying to race, monitor the forum, monitor who is present on the server, and manage who might have dropped out during Qualy, and then expected to sort out why they are missing who should or shouldn't be there, try to get them to leave and try to get the disconnected player back in (hopefully), trying to manage this using in-game chat and TS all at the same time. That situation is totally unfair on Simon and would make racing for him very difficult. I think he is entitled to enjoy the race as much as others. Especially since he has already put hours of preparation into setting up the event for everyone.

Oops looks like you think i was having a dig at Simon? sorry if it sounded so but no i was not, i think he did a sterling job and yes i whole heartily agree he and other admin deserve to be able to enjoy the event also without having to constantly monitor the forum.
Simon is one of those that does make use of teamspeak and if others would also make use of it then the admin could spend the time on the track while using teamspeak instead of constantly having to check the forum to see who is going to show or not.

 

[Simon Trendell]

The issue last night was purely we had 2 spare slots with 10 minutes remaining in practice, so I called for Olly & Nigel to join, then a couple of people had connection issues leaving 4 spots. Olly & Nigel were attentive reserves and join pretty quickly, one of the drop outs rejoined quite quickly then I think Gary joined in those last few minutes taking the last slot before, Hansi then dropped and his spot was taken.

It was all musical chairs in the last minutes, nothing I could of done would of pleased everyone. I actually posted in the thread if you won't make it until the end of the practice session the join at the beginning and sit in the garage until you can join. This was your spot won't be given to a reserve. There was an hour of practice last night, not exactly a short session.

I think that what may need to be done is you join within X minutes of practice finishing, otherwise you are put down on the reserves and reserves can then join.

 

[Warren Dawes]

Oops looks like you think i was having a dig at Simon? sorry if it sounded so

Not at all Neil, I know better than that. I am simply trying to show a different perspective to the problem and trying to show the difficulty of trying to manage these tricky issues, even with the use of TS.
My only real annoyance for this problem is the lack of absentee advice, and this is a regular problem.
Your suggestion is helpful, and will help under some cases, but there are still difficulties even using TS, and in the end I'd rather Simon didn't have that extra burden while trying to race.

 

[Rob Every]

The case rests!! It's a game!

 

[Oliver Amos]

The issue last night was purely we had 2 spare slots with 10 minutes remaining in practice, so I called for Olly & Nigel to join, then a couple of people had connection issues leaving 4 spots. Olly & Nigel were attentive reserves and join pretty quickly, one of the drop outs rejoined quite quickly then I think Gary joined in those last few minutes taking the last slot before, Hansi then dropped and his spot was taken.

It was all musical chairs in the last minutes, nothing I could of done would of pleased everyone. I actually posted in the thread if you won't make it until the end of the practice session the join at the beginning and sit in the garage until you can join. This was your spot won't be given to a reserve. There was an hour of practice last night, not exactly a short session.

I think that what may need to be done is you join within X minutes of practice finishing, otherwise you are put down on the reserves and reserves can then join.

I personally believed you did the correct thing. You can't take into account last second joiners and people dropping out. Overall, these things happen, not much can be done to avoid the situation. Also nobody can point fingers as to who nicked their spot as it was out of everyone's control that people join last second and others disconnect with issues.

 

[Neil Gault]

I personally believed you did the correct thing. You can't take into account last second joiners and people dropping out. Overall, these things happen, not much can be done to avoid the situation. Also nobody can point fingers as to who nicked their spot as it was out of everyone's control that people join last second and others disconnect with issues.

i agree it was just one of things that happens and no one was to blame but if teamspeak was being used at the time then it could of been sorted in 2 secs without anyone having to camp out in the forum waiting for a response.

 

[James Yates]

I think Simon did things the right way last night. If you sign up you should turn up before the last 10 mins of practice, if you don't your slot is given to a reserve. Its a pretty fair way of doing it really - if you look at last nights reserves, i was practicing with Olly Amos before the race and he was able to do all of practice and both races but was a little late on the signups. However, someone who managed to get signed up for the race in time wasn't actually able to commit to the entire thing. I think that if there are reserves, they should be allowed in if the server isn't full going into the last 10 mins of practice. Of course if there are extra spots then the drivers that signed up but are late can join too.

Last night i was having tea during practice, i just joined the session early and sat in the garage. Its easy enough, you can just alt+tab and do something else if you don't want to run in the session