Misc Replacement physics for AC DTM 1991 Car Pack by Tommy78 2

[gecco]

Great to see you work on updating the physics of these. I'm eager to test it out.
Also kind of sidelined the cars after trying them out...

Did anyone also notice the sound of these cars being way to loud?
If I'm in the Kunos E30, and one of Thommys DTM cars is behind me in the pits, I can not hear my own engine any more...

 

[AccAkut]

Great to see you work on updating the physics of these. I'm eager to test it out.
Also kind of sidelined the cars after trying them out...

Did anyone also notice the sound of these cars being way to loud?
If I'm in the Kunos E30, and one of Thommys DTM cars is behind me in the pits, I can not hear my own engine any more...

The Audi is really loud in the interior. Mustang has great sound but have the feeling I've heard it before on some good car mod, so not made by OP.

So game plan is new front suspension for the Mustang & finding out what causes the judder in the Audi.
Than give both worse brakes and maybe lower aero even more on the Mustang.

Not sure how to slow down the Omega yet. I won't touch CSP physics, if anyone comes across real suspension data, have fun with that my goal was just getting the Ferrari out of these cars

edit: lowered brake power of all three a lot. Think I fixed the Audi juddering by giving the front more caster, there was too little I guess. Trying to slow the three down by fiddling with aero and drivetrain

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Got an email from Tommy, it says:
"Just to let you know, the next car, the M3 Evo DTM '91 released."

 

[Kyuubeey]

Got an email from Tommy, it says:
"Just to let you know, the next car, the M3 Evo DTM '91 released."

Just rip my physics and make the changes.

 

[AccAkut]

Yeah I got it too, well lol I mean how many of the downloaders had his cars before I posted this mod. I may have improved his sales somewhat

@Kyuubeey I'll try it, but may be easier if you do that yourself. But while we're at it, how can I make brakes overheat? This would be a good "historical" trait to balance the Audi and Opel

 

[Kyuubeey]

Heating is godawful for both tires and brakes in vanilla AC, so if you're sticking to vanilla; don't. If you insist, I think the NFS pack cars have it, some of them. But it's really not worth including at all for how bad it is.

CSP trello has instructions for CSP heat if you wanna use that.

 

[Wilco88]

Heating is godawful for both tires and brakes in vanilla AC, so if you're sticking to vanilla; don't. If you insist, I think the NFS pack cars have it, some of them. But it's really not worth including at all for how bad it is.

CSP trello has instructions for CSP heat if you wanna use that.

Is there one reason to still make it for vanilla except to give some baboons a treat?

Glad you joined this awesome work Kyuubeey and thanks for your physics! The M3 is awesome.
Only for me, my cs2.5 is to active on straits like the belt is under constant tension for micro adjustments or something and I can't seem to fix it, but I really like the feel! Any way I can make it not do that? (Min force is not it, it's in the phyiscs).

Thanks to you guys we will eventually get the perfect DTM experience! I will try to look into the Audi as that seems not to complex a task even I can comperhend.

 

[AccAkut]

Is there one reason to still make it for vanilla except to give some baboons a treat?

Glad you joined this awesome work Kyuubeey and thanks for your physics! The M3 is awesome.
Only for me, my cs2.5 is to active on straits like the belt is under constant tension for micro adjustments or something and I can't seem to fix it, but I really like the feel! Any way I can make it not do that? (Min force is not it, it's in the phyiscs).

Thanks to you guys we will eventually get the perfect DTM experience! I will try to look into the Audi as that seems not to complex a task even I can comperhend.

I've not used any CSP physics extras yet for cars, only a few track side things like grass and lights. With anything physics I'm just cautious as stuff still seems to change each patch, and again with these cars my goal is not perfect replication, just better usability. I don't know what real brake performance it had, just that it had issues overheating them...maybe that is easy enough to do, I'll see.

So far I managed to lessen the judder considerably by giving the Qudi more caster at the front, I build it of the Audi S1 (as the real V8 DTM actually used suspension parts developed for the rally cars) and it only had like 0,5° caster
Ran an AI race around Mugello and an E30 actually won

 

[Wilco88]

I've not used any CSP physics extras yet for cars, only a few track side things like grass and lights. With anything physics I'm just cautious as stuff still seems to change each patch, and again with these cars my goal is not perfect replication, just better usability. I don't know what real brake performance it had, just that it had issues overheating them...maybe that is easy enough to do, I'll see.

So far I managed to lessen the judder considerably by giving the Qudi more caster at the front, I build it of the Audi S1 (as the real V8 DTM actually used suspension parts developed for the rally cars) and it only had like 0,5° caster
Ran an AI race around Mugello and an E30 actually won

I did not think about that and have no experience with the CSP physics at all. Just having the brakes overheat, sounds like a very nice option to balance the cars more. I think you can lessen the transfer of brakeheat to the tires in tyres.ini. Another simple option would be to just lessen the braketorque, but I am sure you did allready think of that and it is less desirable.

For the jitter, it seems to me that the lowerwishbones are very low in the car and not attached at the right places. Maybe check that again?

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Uhmm...
... the M3 Evo DTM '91 that Tommy just released: is that the same as the Kunos DTM one?

 

[AccAkut]

Another simple option would be to just lessen the braketorque, but I am sure you did allready think of that and it is less desirable.

I did that, the cars all had way more brake force than the E30 and 190E

Uhmm...
... the M3 Evo DTM '91 that Tommy just released: is that the same as the Kunos DTM one?

without doubt its his own scratch model, topology is totally different all around

but suspension on it is really weird, sorta trailing arm at the front there

I don't see any sense in fixing that car, we can just ignore it

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

Uhmm...
... the M3 Evo DTM '91 that Tommy just released: is that the same as the Kunos DTM one?

My question above wasn't that clear.

I'm asking if both the Tommy78 DTM BMW and the Kunos DTM BMW are based on the same real car.

If so, there isn't a lot of point in the Tommy78 version.

 

[AccAkut]

My question above wasn't that clear.

I'm asking if both the Tommy78 DTM BMW and the Kunos DTM BMW are based on the same real car.

If so, there isn't a lot of point in the Tommy78 version.

the Kunos version is sorta "combining" all years the E30 ran in DTM trim, Tommy lists his specifically as '91. The Kunos E30 is already balanced to the Alfa and 190E so I'd take it rather than Tommys.

And from the model side they are similar in terms of mesh density, performance wise there shouldn't be any differences.

 

[Billy Pilgrim]

the Kunos version is sorta "combining" all years the E30 ran in DTM trim, Tommy lists his specifically as '91. The Kunos E30 is already balanced to the Alfa and 190E so I'd take it rather than Tommys.

And from the model side they are similar in terms of mesh density, performance wise there shouldn't be any differences.

Thanks for explaining

I've done a championship or two with the Kunos DTM cars. The Alfa is definitely the fastest, then the BMW and then the Merc. They race together quite nicely but if you do a qualy, most races will start with the five first on the grid being the Alfa, the next five being the BMW and the next five the Mercedes (in a 15-car grid).

 

[AccAkut]

AccAkut updated Replacement physics for AC DTM 1991 Car Pack by Tommy78 with a new update entry:

New rework

So, before this catches dust again:

Audi V8 had its front suspension reworked to get the weird judder out of the car. I think it was way too low caster on the front axle. FFB has been adjusted accordingly.

Mustang GT got new scratch made front suspension thanks to workshop diagrams @Stereo dug up. It should no longer collapse. Feel is nice, raw power but a car you really need to manhandle around a track.

No big changes to the Opel.

---------

All three had numerous...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Nicholls]

Thanks for dropping an update
I've driven the Audi with the new update and it still has the juddering.
I did not want to leave this as a review so it wouldn't tarnish the rating just in case you had uploaded the first version accidentally.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Just for clarity I'm not really involved with this. But go ahead and use my E30 or port the physics to whatever 3D or use any parts from it for the rest of the mod.

 

[AccAkut]

Thanks for dropping an update
I've driven the Audi with the new update and it still has the juddering.
I did not want to leave this as a review so it wouldn't tarnish the rating just in case you had uploaded the first version accidentally.

Ok, I just tested, and it shows the judder only from standard cockpit view with the wheel active, but not from dash view (which is what I use when i drive myself). I've no idea what else could cause this

 

[smurth]

Glad you joined this awesome work Kyuubeey and thanks for your physics! The M3 is awesome.
Only for me, my cs2.5 is to active on straits like the belt is under constant tension...

I own a csw2.5, too, and I find many mods have a FFB too strong (kunos' cars are good for me at this point).

AccAkut and Kyuubeey are making excellent physics but, IMO, the FFB should be reduce on theirs cars.

About THIS mod, I'm using the following FFMULT in "car.ini" (you need to unpack data.acd) :
- Audi V8 : FFMULT=1.3
- Mustang : FFMULT=0.92
- Omega : FFMULT=0.81

About the M3 replacements by Arch, I use theses:
- M3 1986 : FFMULT=3.6
- M3 1990 : FFMULT=3.5
- M3 1990 s1 : FFMULT=3.2
- M3 1990 s2 : FFMULT=3.6 (but I've turned this one into a Gr.A car)
- M3 1990 Drift : FFMULT=2.4
- M3 1992 DTM : FFMULT=2.8


My wheel is configured like this:

 

[smurth]

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