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Realistic smoke

Ok, we have a rubber surface, and another surface (say tar) that are rubbing together. The amount of heat that is produced would be dependant on the friction coefficient between the two surfaces, the inital tempuratures of the surfaces and how much they are slipping against each other. The amount of heat would build up over time, dependant on how much heat the surfaces can dissipate, and hence the smoke volume produced.
When the surfaces stop slipping against each other, they stop producing additional heat, but it takes time for the builtup heat in the surfaces to dissipate, and hence the smoke volume decreases similarly.
 
After making myself dizzy I've noticed a couple of things:
What happened to the shadows?
and it'll be nice when we have a new tyre model that considers heat. That way if you're doing a donut and the front tyres are moving but not as much as the rears (i.e shouldn't be making as much smoke...if any) they don't actually make as much smoke as the rears.

It's lots better now. Big slip angle/ratios generate more obvious smoke.

To get big slip angle/ratios, you generally are making lots of heat, so it works ok.

The issue is where you get big slip angles/ratios when they shouldn't be happening, which happens when donutting and the front tyres are being pushed around oddly. THAT is a tyre force mixing issue imo, or another side result of this tanh zero force stuff... either way, the tyres shouldn't be getting such big slip a/r, and so wouldn't smoke loads if that was working right to start with.

The last thing we really need is a heating system when the whole tyre/force/mixing area feels really iffy to me right now. We need to focus on getting correct behaviour from the start with tyres, then things because of what they are doing (smoke), will tend to work properly from that!

I'd go as far as saying maybe the tolerance for smoke just needs to be raised a bit more. Ie, before it starts generating really thick smoke the slip angles/ratios need to be higher still?


Hmmmm

Dave
 
Just watched the DiRT 3 Dev Q&A and I have to say the dust/particles look amazing in it.
Can't wait to have a look at how it all works and try to copy it over to racer.
 
What we really need is some kind of particle seperation from the racer engine. Right now the cg shaders are like this, and it allows us to do really cool stuff without having to wait for Ruud to program it in.

Ie, we are constrained by the parameters set in the racer.exe I think, just like with the physics side of things, we can't just program in new features ourselves.

Backfires, exhaust smoke, engine smoke, clouds, anything really, are all pre-set and programmed where we can't experiment and refine them.

Smoke from tyres seems to be a generic type for all surfaces now, with just a varying colour. Why can't we just set up loads of smoke types and then bond different ones to different surfaces?

What we need is flexibility. We are constrained right away which is limiting innovation and ideas from those capable.

Ie, if I want to create a new particle system that I want to attach to a steam train's chimney, while parked up on my track, I should just be able to go ahead and create one, give it certain properties, shaders, textures, etc, and make it work myself.
Once a flexible scalable system is implemented, then our imagination is the limit. Right now the implemented system is the limit. Ruud doesn't have to do the setup of the particles, we can do that, Ruud just needs to give us the tools to do the artistic/development work :D

Dave
 
So what you really want is a system like the Cg shaders we have now, where there are reasonable default 'shaders' that do most things, but also the flexibilty of writing your own shaders to do things the defaults don't, for those with the knowledge.
 
Backfires, exhaust smoke, engine smoke, clouds, anything really, are all pre-set and programmed where we can't experiment and refine them.

Smoke from tyres seems to be a generic type for all surfaces now, with just a varying colour. Why can't we just set up loads of smoke types and then bond different ones to different surfaces?

What we need is flexibility. We are constrained right away which is limiting innovation and ideas from those capable.

Hmm Dave, I've checked how Shift (SMS) has created the backfire, really it's all about the shader & which algos you're coding into them. From my point of view, almost anything is possible...I'll try to release the code & see what we can do all together, maybe stereo can help us out since he's doing some good stuff with shaders.

DavidI +1
 
What we really need is some kind of particle seperation from the racer engine. Right now the cg shaders are like this, and it allows us to do really cool stuff without having to wait for Ruud to program it in.

Ie, we are constrained by the parameters set in the racer.exe I think, just like with the physics side of things, we can't just program in new features ourselves.

Backfires, exhaust smoke, engine smoke, clouds, anything really, are all pre-set and programmed where we can't experiment and refine them.

Smoke from tyres seems to be a generic type for all surfaces now, with just a varying colour. Why can't we just set up loads of smoke types and then bond different ones to different surfaces?

What we need is flexibility. We are constrained right away which is limiting innovation and ideas from those capable.

Ie, if I want to create a new particle system that I want to attach to a steam train's chimney, while parked up on my track, I should just be able to go ahead and create one, give it certain properties, shaders, textures, etc, and make it work myself.
Once a flexible scalable system is implemented, then our imagination is the limit. Right now the implemented system is the limit. Ruud doesn't have to do the setup of the particles, we can do that, Ruud just needs to give us the tools to do the artistic/development work :D

Dave

Actually - seems you could.
When Mitch posted that script earlier in this thread that allowed smoke to be generated by the car's position it basically gave you all you need for your chimney :)
Granted - it would be nice to have say a optional particles.ini in the track dir to add in custom particles - but you can just add in your chimney particles to the particles.ini in /renderer/ and have that script in your track dir/scripts/paint with a few adjustments (position adj. and an adj. for the particle type being generated.)
 
Not sure, it's probably super close to being implemented, it just needs un-hardcoding.

All these things should just be little nodes that we define from a blank framework and build up.

Just like the guy asking about a different final drive system for a lorry, really we should just be able to stack gearboxes, diffs, whatever... car sounds should just be frameworks again, so they get attached to different things. Ie, define wind noises (but really they are called anything we want to call them since it's irrelevant), then inside the definition we just attach them to some other internal variable with a snippet of code. Pitch = velocity_wc * constant... I dunno.


Hard-coding doesn't seem to give us any benefits these days.

Dave
 
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