read more: FFB Tweaks

I've worked with x4fab to add a new feature to the Custom Shaders Patch (as of 0.1.51) and the description is fairly brief so I thought it's worth going into a bit more detail about what this does.

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Gyro Implementation

[ ] Active check to enable
Strength 25% adjust effect strength
AC has an "Experimental Gyro" FFB effect whose purpose was adding gyroscopic effects to the steering. It never lost the experimental tag and all it's generally recommended for is damping down oscillations on direct drive wheels.
This is that, developed slightly further based on my understanding of the nature of gyroscopic forces. I have a pretty solid case for making this change, and I believe this force exists in actual cars, and AC's original experimental gyro does not.

The developed version still suits the purpose of damping oscillations, but more importantly it decouples the body from the front wheels - so if the front wheels are pointing in a direction and the body moves around them, no gyroscopic precession happens, and no force is generated. Concretely, what we're talking about here is oversteer - on the original experimental gyro, the force acts counter to self-alignment during oversteer. With this new implementation, self-alignment is allowed to occur freely, or, if the oversteer is so quick that the wheels can't self-align, it'll actually push in the direction of alignment.

25% is simply equivalent to the original force multiplier used on experimental gyro when merging it with other FFB forces. Ultimately, the same as the other amplification ffb effects like road and slip effect, the slider is available to magnify it if your hardware's limitations are obscuring the effect.
As of CSP 0.1.53 the strength slider is outdated. A calculation using the suspension geometry now provides the right precession-based force for each car.
The description is a little bit misleading; this replaces "Experimental Gyro" so disabling it is superfluous, if this is Active, experimental gyro is not. Still, it won't hurt to disable experimental gyro and be certain it's off.

Now that I've said what the intent is, I will also note the following: this changes FFB in pretty much every dynamic situation. It's not just an improvement for drift cars or for vintage cars that oversteer constantly; any time the car moves around on the tires it feels slightly different from before. To me, it's a positive change, it's clearer what the car is doing, and I have heard similarly positive comments from testers. Nonetheless, I am not omniscient, I have not driven all these cars in real life, it's up to you to decide whether it improves your game or gives you better sim feeling the rubber or what. Modifying games to improve the FFB is a fine tradition starting with some extremely thorough efforts in rfactor1, and this is no different (maybe a bit easier to install).

I will note that it slightly increases max forces when cornering so if you have stuff set up to barely clip, you'll need an adjustment downward in global ffb mult.

Range Compression

Range compression 100% - 100% is the "default off" of this effect
[ ] Range compression assist - check to convert cars' "steer assist" into range compression.

New FFB Tweak available as of 0.1.53. The name comes from the audio world, where dynamic range compression means bringing up the quiet sounds while leaving loud sounds at their original volume. This is a much more second derivative friendly version of the Gamma effect.

The percentage is straightforward: Set it to how much you want to multiply small forces. Or adjust it in sync with your overall gain if you want to maintain the level of small forces and change large forces. For example, 200% compression + 50% gain = original 100% on small forces, larger forces decrease. If you're curious, the curve at the point of maximum force is simply the inverse, 200% compression will cause large forces 50% of the original delta in force. But in combination with 50% gain, you're moving the original maximum force downward and the ceiling before the game clips is much higher.

Think of this like power steering: you only want it to assist the heavy forces and give you maximum feel of the light forces.

This is very much an "adjust to taste" thing, it operates smoothly enough that you're safe running it upward of 300%, and I have seen IRL data indicating that manufacturers effectively go as high as 600% in power steering systems, when they want to bring 20+N forces down to a comfortable 2-3N.

Steer assist is a built in per-car feature of AC that applies a gamma function to that car's FFB. If you check Range compression assist, then FFB Tweaks will calculate an appropriate range compression adjustment, and disable steer assist. This should give you a far more normal FFB feeling (no weird bumps around center) while retaining the original goal of giving high downforce cars enough low-speed FFB to be drivable.
 
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activate or not "output real steering forces to wheel" and "maximum torque" ????
If you have a Direct Drive Wheel that can produce 15nm+. Maximum torque will be your wheel's maximum torque.

Otherwise no, do not. It outputs real forces, so almost every consumer wheel will just instantly max out because a real car's "small force" is bigger than the max force of many wheels.
 
If you have a Direct Drive Wheel that can produce 15nm+. Maximum torque will be your wheel's maximum torque.

Otherwise no, do not. It outputs real forces, so almost every consumer wheel will just instantly max out because a real car's "small force" is bigger than the max force of many wheels.
Oh??
So I shouldn't use real force with my Accuforce V2 because it only has 13Nm??
 
The straightforward advice is: put your ffb wheel's actual maximum torque into 'maximum torque' then try enabling it. It'll just clip a lot if you don't have enough torque to use it, then you know to disable it. The feature applies to a vanishingly small minority of cars anyway (Some1's nsx is the only public one I know of)
 
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Yeah, with the important thing being that most cars in AC probably have powersteering, so it won't work well with it anyway. Might be hitting 20+ easily just using manual rack forces. So I wouldn't force it on.

NSX, maybe AE86 is what it will work with alright. Most other cars are either stiffer than what DDs output, or have powersteering of some kind and probably end up really bad.

A lot of people are turning this **** on because they're stupid and not thinking, so I'm going to have to remove support from the NSX. Only way after 3.1.0 is probably to just force on the setting which is annoying but, better than getting *constant* reports about clipping FFB. :rolleyes:
 
The straightforward advice is: put your ffb wheel's actual maximum torque into 'maximum torque' then try enabling it. It'll just clip a lot if you don't have enough torque to use it, then you know to disable it. The feature applies to a vanishingly small minority of cars anyway (Some1's nsx is the only public one I know of)
I set the max torque to 13Nm, which is what the Accuforce V2 is suppose to have. And I was wondering if it was clipping and have been watching AC's clipping app. So far I have not seen it clip. But I may have not driven the right car to make it clip yet.
I guess that brings me to another question? Will the app show this particular type of clipping?
 
I set the max torque to 13Nm, which is what the Accuforce V2 is suppose to have. And I was wondering if it was clipping and have been watching AC's clipping app. So far I have not seen it clip. But I may have not driven the right car to make it clip yet.
I guess that brings me to another question? Will the app show this particular type of clipping?
I think my app did show the clipping correctly.

13nm is just about enough to probably do most realistic manual racks on roadcars, but it's a bit of a gamble if powersteering racks end up being super stiff or not. Some cars have very aggressive caster and trail with strong PS boost, others are just manual style geometries with PS racks installed (AE86). The former might clip like crazy, while the latter will probably not clip, but not be correct either.

I'd only really use it on cars which you know are accurate, and have manual racks, or specific cases where EPS is implemented correctly (So, P13C).
 
All this does is set a particular ffb overall strength that you can't override with +- keys on cars that allow the feature so yes, clipping will appear the same as if you set strength too high.

It's only really there to support a specific type of rig (someone who has an LMP style wheel on a dd, and wants to drive modern lmp2/3 cars at real force levels) otherwise there are too many variables to say it's "right" anyway. No road car has a small enough wheel for real forces to be usable on a typical sim steering wheel.
 
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hello.

I just came across this even if I have seen the feature in CM for some time,I never used it.
What I was doing instead is following this thread from Kunos devs many years ago where they introduced how to set gyro effect and FFB tweaking for the TSPC wheel, the one I own today.


It involved editing some cfg files so what would you recommend, deactivating the gyro effect in the game folder file and running this through CM settings only?

I am happy to start testing it but if people here have already captured this discrepancy/adjustment between in game Gyro editing and in CM, I appreciate any advice

thanks
 
hello.

I just came across this even if I have seen the feature in CM for some time,I never used it.
What I was doing instead is following this thread from Kunos devs many years ago where they introduced how to set gyro effect and FFB tweaking for the TSPC wheel, the one I own today.


It involved editing some cfg files so what would you recommend, deactivating the gyro effect in the game folder file and running this through CM settings only?

I am happy to start testing it but if people here have already captured this discrepancy/adjustment between in game Gyro editing and in CM, I appreciate any advice

thanks
The only correct setting is the "More physically accurate gyro implementation" in CM.

Some simboomers don't like it because it doesn't feel like what they think it should feel like, but it's definitely more correct than KS' method, so you decide what you want to use.

It definitely clip's hard when I turn off power steering. It that what you guy's are referring to?
Also, what gain should I be running at with a DD?

What do you mean turn off power steering? STEER_ASSIST is a gamma function. It's not powersteering. It should always be 1.0 without exception.

The "range compression" feature in CM does what the gamma is supposed to do, just better.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

Some simboomers don't like it because it doesn't feel like what they think it should feel like, but it's definitely more correct than KS' method, so you decide what you want to use.
Even if gyro implementation is "correct", it lacks dynamic damping which is a must for DD wheels or you get oscillation and pretty hard SAT on recovery after slides.
Has nothing to do with liking or disliking, just different hardware.
Glad Kunos kept it in ACC, it's easily one of the most prominent features of their FFB implementation.
Ideally, adjustable damping strength like in ACC could have worked for variety of wheels, not only DD.
 
The hint is pretty misleading. "Essentially" just means it bumps up the FFMULT, but that's not even how PS actually works IRL.
No.... The hint is correct. The "force on" option disables power steering so you get straight rack forces for all cars.

Even if gyro implementation is "correct", it lacks dynamic damping which is a must for DD wheels or you get oscillation and pretty hard SAT on recovery after slides.
Has nothing to do with liking or disliking, just different hardware.
Glad Kunos kept it in ACC, it's easily one of the most prominent features of their FFB implementation.
Ideally, adjustable damping strength like in ACC could have worked for variety of wheels, not only DD.
I have a Simucube 2 and do not have these problems.
 
  • Deleted member 197115

No.... The hint is correct. The "force on" option disables power steering so you get straight rack forces for all cars.


I have a Simucube 2 and do not have these problems.
Me too, SC2 Pro, and SAT with "correct" gyro is just brutal on some Kunos cars. Anyway, we have been there already, sorry, it just doesn't work as intended originally, nor matching new ACC implementation of dynamic damping.
Happy for those who find it acceptable.
 
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@mclarenf1papa

Do you mean the EPS stuff, or something else?

@Andrew_WOT

Correct physics is going to rely on correct implementation of car parameters too. While I think it has more to do with your personal settings, KS cars and most mods are not that great to begin with.
If you force the extension on, cars that don't have it enabled in their physics will produce unassisted rack torque (i.e. it'd be like disabling PS). For cars that have the parameters for it, you only need the left checkbox.
 

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