PC1 Reaction to the newer builds

[Randy Winston]

I have been avoiding pCARS for a while, because of problems with input lag and laggy graphics at the lowest settings. I decided to give it another try this evening as I had nothing to do. I'm glad I did, as it is massively improved since I last tried it a couple of months ago. I think some fine tuning with regards to my ffb settings and this could be great fun. I'm looking forward to this game, mostly on the consoles, because if there isn't going to be modding, I'd rather have it on there anyway. So to the detractors, I urge you to give it another shot. They are getting there.

 

[Jack Sargent]

Funny I tried a recent build having not bothered with it for a while and I thought it was as bad as it was on day one, if not worse.

Worse how?? Well when I first tried it I was under the impression SMS were making a racing simulation but now I have had the chance to try the latest builds I can see that that is not the case at all.

Still comedy physics and dull FFB effects. But hey don't those graphics look great?!?!

I hear people talking about how they will be implementing a new tyre model that will change everything. Don't buy it at all myself. Physics should come first.............worry about the graphics and other pointless crap after they have a good base to work off.

Unfortunately the base they are working off is rubbish. But hey another few coats of gold paint and this turd will be ready to sell to the masses. Funny though, I can still smell something foul here.......I guess SHI(F)T 3 would've been quite an good name for it.

Personally I don't like the way SMS conducts themselves as a company and the way they have treated some members is dreadful. They have turned NoGrip into thier secondary base and what was once a decent forum is now a shadow of it's former self.

 

[Andy_J]

Unfortunately the base they are working off is rubbish. But hey another few coats of gold paint and this turd will be ready to sell to the masses. Funny though, I can still smell something foul here.......I guess SHI(F)T 3 would've been quite an good name for it.

Personally I don't like the way SMS conducts themselves as a company and the way they have treated some members is dreadful. They have turned NoGrip into thier secondary base and what was once a decent forum is now a shadow of it's former self.

Well said. I concur with all that.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I hear people talking about how they will be implementing a new tyre model that will change everything. Don't buy it at all myself. .

You could be right you could be wrong, but for me, I'm moreso concerned with whether this will be a good racing game, even if simcade physics/FFB......the appeal to me are the GFX, and weather.

If you consider F1 2011, I didn't like the steering precision/FFB at lower speeds, so I'd never rate that as a sim or even a good simcade game with my G27, but for people who used a gamepad, it was presumably half decent, not that I don't want pcars to excel with a wheel.

Btw, are you using a quadcore CPU?

 

[Jack Sargent]

You could be right you could be wrong, but for me, I'm moreso concerned with whether this will be a good racing game, even if simcade physics/FFB......the appeal to me are the GFX, and weather.

If you consider F1 2011, I didn't like the steering precision/FFB at lower speeds, so I'd never rate that as a sim or even a good simcade game with my G27, but for people who used a gamepad, it was presumably half decent, not that I don't want pcars to excel with a wheel.

Btw, are you using a quadcore CPU?

Well if it's not going to be a full simualtion I may as well get my money back now tbh. Not interested in arcade racing even if the graphics are super shiny.

My main interest with the project was the eventual inclusion of rally cars and off road stages which was being discused before they opened it up to members. But I guess that has been wiped off the radar and they are focusing on the windscreen wiper textures now................not quite shiny enough??

No I am not using a quadcore CPU. Still flogging the old dual core beast and it works fine for sims like RACE 07/GAME STOCK CAR......which are actually simulations. I don't see how an arcade/faux sim game like CARS needs more processing power except for the shiny graphics obviously.

And for me the graphics are way too shiny and unrealistic anyway. Sure some of the screenshots are super realistic looking but it looks nothing like that when you are actually driving.....looks more like the SHIFT games.

That's just my twisted opinion though.

 

[Kazumi]

Well if it's not going to be a full simualtion I may as well get my money back now tbh. Not interested in arcade racing even if the graphics are super shiny.

My main interest with the project was the eventual inclusion of rally cars and off road stages which was being discused before they opened it up to members. But I guess that has been wiped off the radar and they are focusing on the windscreen wiper textures now................not quite shiny enough??

No I am not using a quadcore CPU. Still flogging the old dual core beast and it works fine for sims like RACE 07/GAME STOCK CAR......which are actually simulations. I don't see how an arcade/faux sim game like CARS needs more processing power except for the shiny graphics obviously.

And for me the graphics are way too shiny and unrealistic anyway. Sure some of the screenshots are super realistic looking but it looks nothing like that when you are actually driving.....looks more like the SHIFT games.

That's just my twisted opinion though.

- Well uhh they did make the Shift series so it's no wonder that 'art direction' and handling share some similarites with their previous work. Even with a complete different engine that is usually the case in development. So I'm not sure if it's going into your desired direction even if they have sorted out all their issues. But we will see

- From my point of view, the main challenge with Rally is that you suddenly have to create like a dozen of rally stages of which some can't be driven by normal race cars (everything except asphalt basically) - that is time you can spend of windscreen wipers as you said, but also on normal tracks which can be driven with any car ingame.

 

[Jack Sargent]

- Well uhh they did make the Shift series so it's no wonder that 'art direction' and handling share some similarites with their previous work. Even with a complete different engine that is usually the case in development. So I'm not sure if it's going into your desired direction even if they have sorted out all their issues. But we will see

- From my point of view, the main challenge with Rally is that you suddenly have to create like a dozen of rally stages of which some can't be driven by normal race cars (everything except asphalt basically) - that is time you can spend of windscreen wipers as you said, but also on normal tracks which can be driven with any car ingame.

Well I think I have already made up my mind to be honest and won't be buying it when it's released. Of course I will reserve final judgement...........who knows they may well pull it out of the bag and create something quite excellent. Then again.........I just think Assetto Corsa will be so good any other purchase would be pointless. rFactor 2 aside of course.

With the rally cars I think I was holding out hope for something which was never likely to actually happen anway. Too much work.......too difficult........not enough potential customers. RBR is still king and will continue to reign for the foreseeable.

Another coat of gold on those wipers wouldn't hurt anyway.....lol

 

[Andy_J]

I'll get it if it's good, but only when it's on sale on Steam.

 

[Jack Sargent]

I'll get it if it's good, but only when it's on sale on Steam.

Ah the STEAM sale. I am still waiting for ARMA II to be reduced...........and I will keep waiting!!!!!

 

[Andy_J]

Ah the STEAM sale. I am still waiting for ARMA II to be reduced...........and I will keep waiting!!!!!

I got ARMA 2 for 10 quid from play.com about 2 months after it was released. This game will also go down the bargain bin route.

 

[Super Koala]

In my younger days I was an engineer for a company called Link-Miles and made aircraft simulators. I liked to fly them but had never flown the real aircraft so it was very important to me to get the opinion of the RAF pilots when they came to our factory on test days. I knew how sims work and the aircraft flight equations etc. I wouldn't dream of comparing the accuracy of these to other simulator companies and say what sim is an accurate simulation. I would listen to the pilots and Navigators though. I see no comparison in these discussions on pCARS to facts compared to the real car. anything else is a comparison to another game or simulator where, especially physics are concerned i need validity. I would like to hear from people who have some experience of the real car or access to accurate physics equations, modelling etc. I see a lot of comparisons to other games but no reference to a standard, real car or simulator. I think a lot of you don't know what you are talking about. In my humble opinion of course

 

[Andy_J]

I think a lot of you don't know what you are talking about. In my humble opinion of course

Well that is your humble opinion. In my humble opinion, I think you are talking a load of codswallop. Your Link Miles simulators hardly are the right comparison in this debate. Some Combat flight sims out now far surpass the old Link Miles sims, whatever RAF station they operated in. Tried one out myself many years ago when I was based in Wildenrath and Wattisham.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[Super Koala]

So come on Andy, what relevant experience have you got. Also Our sims were way ahead of Redifon and the Canadians in those days we were the first to use microprocessors in simulation technology (Finnish Hawk) and I do know what I'm talking about. I also know how important the visuals are in and from the cockpit. That is because they don't fly from a bumper or overhead cam. Good visuals are important. So enlighten me on you physics references and the standard you compare them to. Then the discussion (sic) can be meaningful.
Edit
I've just noticed, I can't believe that you have just compared one of our multi millon £ sims to a video game. Lol

 

[Andy_J]

I am comparing them. The quality was good back then, but visually and AI are much better in todays PC Combat Flight Sims, Physics is not comparible obviously. But I will repeat myself. Your silly challenge to members here regarding comparing the simulation side of Pcars and real life is just.......well its just stupid. Not worth discussing actually.

My only experience of the old Links Miles simulators is using them. 28 years in the Royal Air Force saw to that. Now back on topic.

 

[Jack Sargent]

I see a lot of comparisons to other games but no reference to a standard, real car or simulator. I think a lot of you don't know what you are talking about. In my humble opinion of course

Yeah....unfortunately I don't have access to a stable of exotic and rare cars from the last 50 years......nor do I have access to a professional grade simulation...............come to think of it I don't even have a degree in vehicle dynamics.

So........er............yeah. My opinion is all I have and if you don't like it you are free to disagree with it.

I would say though if you can't figure out for yourself what handles correctly or not without someone telling you first, then I wouldn't even bother with sim racing to begin with.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

No I am not using a quadcore CPU. Still flogging the old dual core beast and it works fine for sims like RACE 07/GAME STOCK CAR......which are actually simulations. I don't see how an arcade/faux sim game like CARS needs more processing power except for the shiny graphics obviously.

In theory at least, the higher tik rates[more calculations p/second], are supposed to improve fidelity, so if the need for a quad is all about GFX, then maybe we could run at low res/detail and test physics performance.

rf2{the best physics/FFB at the moment} runs fine at 1080p with HDR on my 4yr old e8400 3ghz CPU, so pcars physics on high tik should be astonishing.

As for the SS's, they're obviously very selective, and the cam positioning makes a huge difference, but there's no question pcars has very good GFX, but I worry if the cockpit coffins of Shift2 are returning, ie, cockpits are dimly lit at best.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

. I think a lot of you don't know what you are talking about. In my humble opinion of course

On the contrary, many of us do judge sims comparatively, and this combined with some knowledge of real world car behaviour clearly has merit, also, these are simulators, they're not the real thing, so it's really about an approximation.

Another thing, on iracing forums especially, there's huge ongoing discussions/arguments between those claiming rl experience and the arm chair experts, yet both sides raise interesting points, plus, from a commercial POV, a driver can be hired and instructed what to say/focus on, so in some ways, a rl drivers input is close to worthless.

rf2 and some of the cars in 2012 GSC have raised the bar for sim cars IMO, though part of that is improved visuals and sounds in GSC, but I don't think any credible person can deny how well that Camaro drives, and I don't know whether I'm imagining it or not, but the V8SC's feel better as well.

 

[Kazumi]

As for the SS's, they're obviously very selective, and the cam positioning makes a huge difference, but there's no question pcars has very good GFX, but I worry if the cockpit coffins of Shift2 are returning, ie, cockpits are dimly lit at best.

Wait for a few builds when they got the cloud rendering. At least in Shift 2 the interior is mostly lit by the sky but not ambient. But due to one texture with sky + cloud they aren't bright enough, because they got too overexposed easily otherwise.

 

[Super Koala]

The "AI" seen from the cockpit of a fast jet is a small shapeless glint moving fast, ask a combat pilot. Not as in the combat sims or unless it is a biplane and you are going very slowly, ie extended wings, or in formation.

Simulation of aircraft in flight is similar to motor cars, especially fast ones where aerodynamics come into the equations. Thrust, drag, yaw, pitch, turning moments, moments of force and the initiators of these forces, tyres, big influence, tyre pressures, softness, tread and construction etc. Torque and the twisting moments affects the footprint. All these things, and many more do have a relationship similar to aircraft. When you sit at the end of a runway and go, your tummy is left at the end of the runway where you started and you hope it's still there when you land. I would say there are a lot of similarities between aircraft flight and racing cars. Ask Mr Newton. Oh you can't he's not with us anymore but his teaching is.

My point is, an opinion must be based on something. I've owned a few cars in my time and tried some which did not belong to me. The fastest I've driven, on a calibrated speedo, is a bit in excess of 130 mph. I do not consider myself qualified to comment on the car's I haven't driven let alone the the effects and feel of faster cars. That is why I would like to hear from people who have. I certainly would not critisise the early attempts of a company trying to come to grips with this. I expect they would like some intelligent opinion on this as well from people who have driven these cars. the main thing I learnt from fast cars was not to expect a bigger engine to give you a direct proportional increase in speed. The steering goes light without the aero (flight again). Brakes must be really respected.

I base my opinions on what I know. I ask when I don't know that is why I'm asking you. You are saying you know, Opinion has nothing to do with it. Driving at 80mph on your speedo, which is probably really about 72mph at best, is not the same as driving at 130 mph true speed. All the metering errors on a speedo are at the top end of the scale. It's only accurate at 30 mph. the rest read high in normal road cars.

If you want to slag off the efforts of pCARS in the early stages of their development, then at least do so from a qualified position, or at least pass on the opinion of someone who is. I would like to know too and it would be constructive. For SMS too.

Comparison between racing games is just that. Comparison between racing games and simulators is not valid. No approximation in simulators.

 

[Super Koala]

I know it's off topic but out of interest:
I forgot to mention, I understand modern flight sims nowadays do not use AI. They are networked to other pilots in other sims and the visuals coordinated. Similar to multiplayer really but its been a while and I suspect military sims may have come under the defence cuts but I don't really know. The important part is use of the radar in strke and air combat. So combat stuff isn't relevant to racing but flying is. Commercial airline sims were the most proffessional, the RAF treated their sims more like a toy really, as I remember.