RDRC Season 4 Rules discussion

[John Cunningham]

I think we are now going to have a different method of ranking other than club race positions.

I am in favour of this because I could see how people might get annoyed with how club rallies are a bonus to the championship. I spend all my spare time trying to practise for the championship and therefore dont have the time to spend on club meetings.Surely then I would be penalised in the championship, for being dedicated to the championship...??!!??

Do not get me wrong, I hope I am still in the top grade and therefore this wouldnt have affected me, and I appreciate that I may have got my facts wrong on how this works. I am in favour of anything that encourages new competitors to this fine establishment, so really I am up for whatever floats yer boat, just thought I would mention it..

jc

 

[Eckhart von Glan]

Glad you two are finished with your little spat, nobody wants to hear anymore of it.

Time to get back on topic everyone.

hey, you do "stern" pretty well, lucifer (well, with a name like that ...)

 

[Dariusz Swiderski]

I have never hide the fact that RBR was just a fun addition to my racing interest, with the word fun being the key. I may not have always agreed with the rules but as long as i could have driven a car i was having fun with, i could live with it. With season 4 approaching i find myself for the first time in years not having any desire to do the championship. As i,m starting new job soon i,m going to have no time whatsoever to do any practice ( and gonna have to be very cunning with my new job just to be able to do the rounds, with club racing out of the picture ) so to at least to have fun is more important to me then ever. And i really dislike the A8W-11\12 class, with the 2WD class being of no real interest to me as i want to drive 4WD in the championship.

Are there ANY exceptions for a grade 1 driver to drive something different? Maybe outside the points system?
If not, when a grade 1 driver won't take part in any of the rounds of season 4, will his grade be reduced for season 5 ?
From reading the rules i know i can deliberately drive slow \ crash and have my grade reduced for next season but that's not something i want to do \ have time for, so are there any other ways for somebody like me to drive what i want?

Would be shame if i,m forced to fake every other championship just to have my grade reduced, and not very fair to the other grade 2 drivers. Just a thought.

 

[Chelton Nunes]

Season 4 Rules are out: http://www.racedepartment.com/forum/threads/rdrc-season-4-rules.44729/

 

[Warren Dawes]

And i really dislike the A8W-11\12 class, with the 2WD class being of no real interest to me as i want to drive 4WD in the championship.

That seems surprising to me Dariusz, have you really spent much time with these cars? I don't find them much different to the A8W-08 Class, similar power and slightly better handling.
And we now have the new VW to try and (hopefully) maybe even the MINI might make it into RSRBR2012 in time.

If you really can't live with the Grade 1 choices, I'd assume you can still drive each Round and not be included in the Points. Then, probably you can be regraded next season through the Qualifying Session if the rules don't change for S5.

 

[Dariusz Swiderski]

I've only tried the A8W-11 cars in RSRBR2011 as i still need to dl the 2012. But i don't suspect it will be any different. Those cars are similar to S2000, you have to rev them high at all times, that's what i don't like. I like the N4 and A8W-99 to 08 for their power delivery, handling has got nothing to do with my dislike.

I've been an active member in RDRC for almost 3 years now, done countless club rallies and all seasons of RDRC with having fun being the main priority, now its saddens me i may have to drop out of rallying. Let's hope there is a solution for me so i can continue with this great game.

 

[Rick Bamford]

What would you think the solution should be Dariusz?

 

[Dariusz Swiderski]

What would you think the solution should be Dariusz?

Well, the best solution would be to drop the A8W11 - 12 toys and go back to proper rally cars. I'm not the only one who doesn't like them but its only me who is being vocal about it. Anyway, that's wishful thinking from me, not gonna happen for sure.

The way the rules are atm i have no solution for myself, being forced to drive a car i don't like or not drive at all, i'll go for the later.
I hold no bitter feelings at all Rick, i understand you can't make everyone happy and it must be a very frustrating trying to make it work for all, and i have to say you are doing a splendid job most of the time.

So i only need an answer to this:
- if i don't take part in season 4 will my grade be reduced for next season ?

 

[Rick Bamford]

Yes it will.

Anyone else that thinks the A8W11/12 cars are the wrong choice, please let me know.

 

[Manuel De Samaniego]

I have no problem driving the new cars, i love them and i would drive any car that corresponds, where i do not agree is that we will have the two types of WRC cars competing, because i have driven them both and i know the time diferences between them and i can say that even with perfect driving and no mistakes, the new WRC cars are at huge dissadvantage against the old WRC cars from 99' to 2008. I think that we are going to see mostly old WRCs instead of new WRC in the top 5 constantly. Even if unexperienced drivers use them, those cars are better than the new ones IMO. I would use only one type of WRC cars not both.

Cheers

 

[Rick Bamford]

The testing I have done (both myself and other drivers) has shown that the A8W08 cars and the A8W11 cars are very even. Different stages suit the each class better but the times were very close regardless.

However we are discussing a change in the directing team.

 

[Manuel De Samaniego]

I have driven both types of cars in top level championships and i have compared the best times from many stages, and in most the old cars win by 10 seconds or more, completely different driving style and the old cars are much easier to drive IMO. But offcourse that is the organizer's desision and i will drive whatever car corresponds and i respect their ruling.

 

[Andrew Koojo]

i Agree with Manuel. i have used both cars. and on the stage that i im pretty confident with. it is impossible to achive1:55 on the new cars on Frazer wells. but i could do 1:53 with a 2010 ford focus. and trust me they dont match the previous version of cars. i can bet on that. the Citroen since the 01 to 10 they are much faster with much more acceleration. and even in real life the previous cars have a slight advantage over the new ones..

 

[Warren Dawes]

on the stage that i im pretty confident with. it is impossible to achive1:55 on the new cars on Frazer wells. but i could do 1:53 with a 2010 ford focus.

IMO, that is hardly a good stage to do the comparison, since it has a huge long high speed section.
It would be much fairer to compare across a variety of Stages and surfaces.
The RDRC is run over a wide variety of Stages, with many very tight twisty and slippery, where the WRC 08 cars can't use their high top speeds. Compare the S3 results and look at some of the results achieved by the S2000 cars.

 

[Andrew Koojo]

well ok if you say so but i think it is not a fair fight between the two models..

 

[Rick Bamford]

Andrew, you compair the two classes in real life. This year a number or stage records have been beaten by the new WRC cars by large margins so they CAN be quite a bit faster then the old WRC cars.

As I said, it depends on what stage you are using. Have a try at Biasanne (gravel Mod) or Mustaselka and see what the times are like.

 

[Andrew Koojo]

i have tried and this is what i achieved. the ds3 is awesome and agile but it lucks power after the hairpins

1339 - andyone Citroen DS3 WRC 2011 Gravel Mod A8W-11 Bisanne Good conditions
01:43.46 03:16.22 04:40.98 100 26/12/2011 12:22:23 - 0 Daylight

1339 - andyone Citroen Xsara T4 Gravel Mod A8W-01 Bisanne Good conditions
01:39.60 03:11.50 04:35.47 100 26/12/2011 12:28:40 - 0 Daylight

 

[Adam Jonas]

i have tried and this is what i achieved. the ds3 is awesome and agile but it lucks power after the hairpins

1339 - andyone Citroen DS3 WRC 2011 Gravel Mod A8W-11 Bisanne Good conditions
01:43.46 03:16.22 04:40.98 100 26/12/2011 12:22:23 - 0 Daylight

1339 - andyone Citroen Xsara T4 Gravel Mod A8W-01 Bisanne Good conditions
01:39.60 03:11.50 04:35.47 100 26/12/2011 12:28:40 - 0 Daylight

I've noticed that, too. First, I thought that only my driving style doesn't fit to these new WRC cars, but good to hear that I'm not so clumsy.

 

[Magnar Haarstadsveen]

Hi, i also a little bit faster with the old wrc cars. On my test track (Chirdonhead) i was 3- sec faster with Citroen C8-08 than with the new Polo Wrc. I also try on a few more stages and the same result there.

 

[Warren Dawes]

Are you testing these cars under Championship conditions?
ie. Realistic, Cumulative Damage, and one run only (not hotlapping with multiple restarts)?

Can you also try some of the tighter Stages with wet weather, and maybe Snow stages too?

The reason for asking is that during S3, some of us (Magnar, Simone, and myself) used S2000 cars, and under off-line testing, these cars were MUCH slower than the WRC 08 cars. However, over the length of the Championship we were very competitive with WRC drivers of equal skill. In S4, the Grade 1 drivers should be more than competitive with Grade 2, 3, drivers. The driver skill will have much more impact than any small perceived differences in the car performance.
From my point of view, getting the Driver Gradings right is way more important than small differences in Car Classes.

From a personal point of view, as a Grade 1 driver, I don't have any issues, even if the Grade 2 drivers had a car with a slight performance advantage. I would see myself competing with the other Grade 1 drivers, and if I have to work a little harder against Grade 2 drivers, that is good for me and the Championship. I don't believe that Grade 1 drivers should have ALL of the odds stacked in their favour, it should come down to driver skill and consistency over the full Championship.
Maybe I'm different.