RDRC Season 4 - General discussion

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Alan, do you consider it as a S5 Grading? Because if you made it up that way then I should be in Grade 1 as I finished one rally in overall top 5. Dont get me wrong, I would love to be Grade 3 or 4 because of the current rules and not Grade 2 or probably even worse - Grade 1. Just saying I was in Top 5 once which was a criteria in S4 and if that list you made up is taking S4 rules and make up S5 grading then at least Im wrongly placed, no idea about others though.

Btw, if Im starting to drive with a keyboard (which can actually happen within few weeks) - could I get graded lower? Im serious about this, Im moving to some place else for a while and I might not take neither my PC or Wheel with me, but I might take a laptop which could run RBR. And then I would do this with keyboard which I have never ever done before and obviously would put me in between the most slowest guys. Its not a question for you, Alan, obviously. ;)
 
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Alan, do you consider it as a S5 Grading? Because if you made it up that way then I should be in Grade 1 as I finished one rally in overall top 5. Dont get me wrong, I would love to be Grade 3 or 4 because of the current rules and not Grade 2 or probably even worse - Grade 1. Just saying I was in Top 5 once which was a criteria in S4 and if that list you made up is taking S4 rules and make up S5 grading then at least Im wrongly placed, no idea about others though.

Btw, if Im starting to drive with a keyboard (which can actually happen within few weeks) - could I get graded lower? Im serious about this, Im moving to some place else for a while and I might not take neither my PC or Wheel with me, but I might take a laptop which could run RBR. And then I would do this with keyboard which I have never ever done before and obviously would put me in between the most slowest guys. Its not a question for you, Alan, obviously. ;)
I have said many many times, the list is just for reference only, The "Provisional" grading listed is what will happened if S4's grading crietia was applied in this season. Actually I found lots of "questionable grades" if this rule also apply in S5. for example the 2WD cup drivers and Grade 3/4 unpointed drivers cannot be graded, drivers with better standings within his/her grade, but a person with lower standings will end up a higher grade than him/her. Also if this is real thing a lot of grade 2 drivers will be promoted and there will be more Grade 1 drivers than Grade 2, so I doubt this will be a grading used in S5.

I expected the organizer will have changes in grading. Maybe promotion/relegation or anything else can be considered.

(P.S:For keyboard driver I was having a same case with you, the only difference is I am still having my wheel on repair shop. I have been on KB on the previous RCs as because of this.)
 
I have said many many times, the list is just for reference only, The "Provisional" grading listed is what will happened if S4's grading crietia was applied in this season. Actually I found lots of "questionable grades" if this rule also apply in S5. for example the 2WD cup drivers and Grade 3/4 unpointed drivers cannot be graded, drivers with better standings within his/her grade, but a person with lower standings will end up a higher grade than him/her. Also if this is real thing a lot of grade 2 drivers will be promoted and there will be more Grade 1 drivers than Grade 2, so I doubt this will be a grading used in S5.

I expected the organizer will have changes in grading. Maybe promotion/relegation or anything else can be considered.

(P.S:For keyboard driver I was having a same case with you, the only difference is I am still having my wheel on repair shop. I have been on KB on the previous RCs as because of this.)

I wasnt asking you about the ruling. Just about that list of yours. I know that previous seasons rules are not quite working for this season. And I kinda know what is going to happen with next season rules. More interested in what people think about my re-grading due change from a wheel to keyboard.
 
Seeing that provisional list and knowing that grade 2 will have only SWRC e WRC cars i will prefer a other grade, for example, a Grade 3, i will like to have an evolution on the car but to a GR.N. Let´s see when get out the fonal rules of S5...
 
Yes gents, as long as you are just throwing about ideas, it's a bit too early to get into details. We must let the staff have a proper break/holiday, they are the most important component of the RdRbR machine!
 
Hi guys.

I've considered getting into this championship but it's always struck me as a little over-complicated and rule intensive. Perhaps with the ushering in of a new era, there's an opportunity to streamline things or shake things up a little.

I've had a number of thoughts, which I'd like to share with you and to prompt some discussion.

Ten rounds with a massive break in the middle is both too long and kills the momentum of the season.

I would propose the league running twice a year, with six events, once every three weeks with a ten week break between seasons. That keeps each championship tight and lean and prevents burn out from staff and competitors alike. You'd be looking at the "winter/spring" season starting last week in February and the "summer/autumn" season starting last week of August.

You should do longer rallies with longer breaks between service parks.

Each "stint" should be four or five stages between services. Each rally should always consist of the max 15 stages. Ideally, each rally would be run over two days increasing the overall number of stages in an event - I realise it's more work - but I noticed this was done in the early days of the rally club.

The grading system is a mess.

No offence intended - the grading system is the biggest single turn off for me. The rules are fuzzy, complicated and not explained particularly well. Also, I don't want to be pigeon-holed into a particular class of car based on my estimated speed. Who's to say a "fast" guy shouldn't get to drive something in Group N one season? Or that a "slow" guy might feel more comfortable in the latest WRCs?

Not everyone's a winner, despite society trying to convince you otherwise!

I would propose you do away with gradings altogether. Competitors may not want to play the progression unlock game. The system penalises drivers who don't drive consecutive seasons.

In it's place, open up 6 or 7 classes. You "carefully" choose your ride at the start of the season and that's it. You can't change - you drive what you choose.

For example; new WRCs, older WRCs, S2000, Group N/A, Group B, 2WD.

Competitors fight in an overall championship and a sub-championship for their class. It's clear and straightforward and not muddied with gradings. Did anyone actually care where they came in the Grade 3 points table?

Teams don't work.

I must confess I don't really understand the point of or see the need for a team championship in what is essentially a solitary endeavour. But maybe that's just me.

Utilise more media - get a sponsor.

You should try and approach a small company who might put up a wee prize for the winner/top three in the championship. In return, their name is plastered over everything to do with the league. A small racing related company or maybe one of the indie sim racing rig or custom part makers or something. Say hello to the Demon Tweeks RDRC Season 5!

Every round should be front page news on RD. Get someone to work properly as your media dude - but someone who will stick with it all season. Abuse RDs other communication outlets like FB and Twitter. Generate lots of interviews with the players in the championship, written or youtube. More is better. Exposure will also bring new blood.

Don't worry so much about event videos - lots and lots of work.

Replays.

Again, probably just a me thing - but seems unnecessary and unreasonable to demand replays from all competitors. Especially when RSRBR is so prone to messing things up. Get rid of this rule.

Anyway, I seem to have rambled on a bit there but feel free to comment and maybe I'll see you next season.
 
I like this guy, most of these ideas was in my head for a long time but I couldnt put it all together. Most of all I like the idea about dropping grades and allow everyone to take a car/class the enjoy.

Very good job putting it all together mate, Im glad you cared enough. :)
 
The grading system is a mess.

No offence intended - the grading system is the biggest single turn off for me. The rules are fuzzy, complicated and not explained particularly well. Also, I don't want to be pigeon-holed into a particular class of car based on my estimated speed. Who's to say a "fast" guy shouldn't get to drive something in Group N one season? Or that a "slow" guy might feel more comfortable in the latest WRCs?

Not everyone's a winner, despite society trying to convince you otherwise!

I would propose you do away with gradings altogether. Competitors may not want to play the progression unlock game. The system penalises drivers who don't drive consecutive seasons.

In it's place, open up 6 or 7 classes. You "carefully" choose your ride at the start of the season and that's it. You can't change - you drive what you choose.

For example; new WRCs, older WRCs, S2000, Group N/A, Group B, 2WD.

Competitors fight in an overall championship and a sub-championship for their class. It's clear and straightforward and not muddied with gradings. Did anyone actually care where they came in the Grade 3 points table?

Before everyone gets carried away with these ideas, I feel compelled to try to explain the reasons behind the previous use of Gradings.
Whilst I haven't been a great supporter of the Grade Championships ( I don't believe we need these additional "results" in the RDRC either), I do support the need for a Grading system.
They (Gradings) were not introduced simply to make everything more complex, they had a very important purpose. That purpose was to try to have competitve racing for drivers of similar skill / speed / experience. That was meant to have newer drivers or less skilled drivers competing with those more equal to themselves, so they had some incentive to participate and have a chance of featuring in some results. Quite simply, to give other drivers something to compete for in a fairer environment.
It tries to prevent the top drivers simply dominating a class by avoiding competing with the "better" drivers in a higher class. So, for example, a driver in, say, Group N Class could feel that he driving against others of similar standard.
So, by removing the Gradings completely, anyone is free to choose any Class. Would drivers be happy to see Experienced / Proven Fast drivers dropping back to "lower" Classes? Group N Class drivers would be happy to compete with some of our top drivers in that Class? Similarly other Classes? We received quite a few "comments" in S3 about Magnar, Simone, and myself competing in Production Class.

Please don't say that top drivers won't sandbag in lower classes if allowed, with only one or two drivers totally dominating the Open Championship, I could foresee many drivers preferring to forego the Open Class in favour of dropping into lower classes.

So, in summary, I agree with the need to review the Gradings system, including dropping the Grade Championship results, I don't support dropping gradings totally. We may need to keep improving the methodology for setting Grades, and I believe this has been looked at.

However, if the majority of drivers are happy to compete openly in each class with whoever chooses that class, including proven top drivers, then maybe it might be considered.
However, we should listen to current RDRC drivers who have been competing in the "lower" Classes. What do they think? These are the people the Grading system was designed to help.
 
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Before everyone gets carried away with these ideas, I feel compelled to try to explain the reasons behind the previous use of Gradings.
Whilst I haven't been a great supporter of the Grade Championships ( I don't believe we need these additional "results" in the RDRC either), I do support the need for a Grading system.
They (Gradings) were not introduced simply to make everything more complex, they had a very important purpose. That purpose was to try to have competitve racing for drivers of similar skill / speed / experience. That was meant to have newer drivers or less skilled drivers competing with those more equal to themselves, so that had some incentive to participate and have a chance of featuring in some results. Quite simply, to give other drivers something to compete for in a fairer environment.
It tries to prevent the top drivers simply dominating a class by avoiding competing with the "better" drivers in a higher class. So, for example, a driver in, say, Group N Class could feel that he driving against others of similar standard.
So, by removing the Gradings completely, anyone is free to choose any Class. Would drivers be happy to see Experienced / Proven Fast drivers dropping back to "lower" Classes? Group N Class drivers would be happy to compete with some of our top drivers in that Class? Similarly other Classes? We received quite a few "comments" in S3 about Magnar, Simone, and myself competing in Production Class.

Please don't say that top drivers won't sandbag in lower classes if allowed, with only one or two drivers totally dominating the Open Championship, I could foresee many drivers preferring to forego the Open Class in favour of dropping into lower classes.

So, in summary, I agree with the need to review the Gradings system, including dropping the Grade Championship results, I don't support dropping gradings totally. We may need to keep improving the methodology for setting Grades, and I believe this has been looked at.

However, if the majority of drivers are happy to compete openly in each class with whoever chooses that class, including proven top drivers, then maybe it might be considered.
However, we should listen to current RDRC drivers who have been competing in the "lower" Classes. What do they think? These are the people the Grading system was designed to help.

Yeah, the major problem is not grading, but most of them (including me as well) would be the car choice linked to grade. I think one of the major issue is to revise the limit of car choice. I saw many drivers in S2000/GrN says they don't want to drive a WR but rather a S2000/GrN and the bar of top tier can only go for a WR should be no more. Most of them have no intention to sandbag lower tiers but just love to drive their original car. I would agree WR or S2000 maybe too powerful for newcomers and should have some test before, maynot linked to grading.

One more thing is the handicap between keyboard and wheel drivers, especially switching from wheel to kb (or vice versa) may affect his performance, thus the level of his opponents, as mentioned in previous post. Any solution about that?
 
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