RD Caterham League

[Stuart Thomson]

Gents,

as some of you have been asking for this, and it now looks like it might be a workable concern as the numbers go up, let me hear your thoughts on what you'd like to see if this comes to fruition. It'll probably start early October to give me enough time to get things tested and sorted, and also to allow us to go up the food chain in terms of car experience.




I'm most interested to hear about the following things:

• League vehicle - go with something we know, something new, how powerful, how driveable etc. (bear in mind we'll have finished the RS165 season by the time this starts, so we'll all have some experience with both the Superlight chassis and a higher revving, more powerful engine by then)
• Team or single player - the mod has 21 drivers, 7 teams of 3 drivers? Single driver? I'm not really up for dicking about with the mod to try and expand the slots, tbh. I'd prefer to try and keep everything as simple as possible on that front as it's working so well up until now.
• League event format - Number of rounds, number of races per round (1 long race with a pitstop, 2 races like currently, something else)

I've already got some ideas about how I think it should go, but it's not up to just me

Please let me know what you would like.

One last thing - I'm only going to take on board suggestions and thoughts from people who actually turn up and drive with us on a Friday, and they will take preference when/if sign ups start.

 

[Ben Rawlinson]

Caterham League suggestions

Hey Stu

I think a league is a great idea getting people to commit to a whole season is important though as a full grid makes it so much fun.

• The vehicles I havn't tried more powerful ones yet I personally would like a balance between drivability and speed. The slower the cars are the closer the racing gets (i think) so there could be a case for sticking with a medium powered engine. Also the more setup options there are the more confusing it gets for mid gridders like me
• Teams are good if there is a mix of fast and slower drivers to help with things like setups and training and can provide more rivalry and a more balanced team championship also having teams talking to each other in teamspeak is cool. I would prefer 7 teams of 3.
• My preferred league format would be 8 - 10 races on consecutive weeks as this keeps things lively although it might be a lot of work for you organiser(s) and might mean a few more dropouts. Second favorite for me would be 6 - 8 races every fortnight. I like two races as it means a second chance to redeem oneself! maybe also have some GP events which are longer and involve fuel/pitsop/tyre stategy as well?

Hope this helps
Ben

 

[Stuart Thomson]

Immediate reactions:

• The 140's we're in currently are way below the halfway mark when it comes to available engines, plus I'll always try and tailor the cars and tracks so they "fit".
• This is my biggest issue with Teams, the people who want team Leagues are generally already in a team. My impression is that they would tend to dominate, with everyone else hunting around for 2 people to cobble a team together. I could be wrong there though.
• The 8 race fortnightly schedule has always worked for me in the GTL Leagues, not too many drops that way. But if enough people think something else would be better, I'll obviously reconsider.

Thanks for the feedback :good:

 

[Paul Wright]

Hi Stu,
Firstly, great idea to propose a full league

Cars: I'd say reserve judgment until nearer the time, but in all honesty the majority here would probably race the temp car as long as it had the caterham physics - i would wonder whether it's feasible to a: maybe reduce the slipstream effect a tad (as discussed before its not all wine and roses in my experience...) and/or b: increase the impact of tyre wear and fuel usage (by which i mean weight of the car and subsequent effect on lap time).....more of which anon.

Teams? Hmmmmm i'm not personally a fan of it tbh....granted, some of the teams racing now have an advantage (i'm looking at Herrmann's crew as i write this, with their setup specialist blah blah lol) but my only (selfish) concern with this is that a once-a-week series turns into 2 or 3 nights of buddying and setup work and online practice-if-we-can-sort-a-server. I'm not saying teams are a bad thing, far from it, but i would suggest that people teaming up if they wish or racing alone if they wish is preferable to 'mandatory' teaming (aka 'be in a team or you don't get an entry'). On the plus side, it does add an extra dimension to the racing if team points are involved.

Event format: An early October start (say the 8th for instance) would allow a 10-round series up to the 10th December (inclusive) which would allow a break over the Christmas/New year holiday (bearing in mind 17th is normally 'mad Friday' where everyone's out on the 'works do pre-xmas binge' and then the following friday is xmas eve, when the menfolk traditionally do ALL of their xmas shopping hahaha) so i'd think within that there's capacity to run 2-race nights as now along with maybe 1 or 2 'grand prix' (i.e. single race) events......obv the GPs could score double points compared to the normal format but, given one incident could form the pattern for the whole race then perhaps a 1.5x points for GP might be more appropriate. The other alternative, of course, is run set laps 'sprint' and 'feature' races for 25% and 75% points (a 5-lapper and a 10-lapper as examples). Variable format would be beneficial i think, if it's the same format week on week and (as mentioned) the same team/s keep cleaning up then interest for the plodders can wane....there's always the thought of part-reverse grids WTCC-style, so race 1 winner starts P8, 2nd starts P7 etc etc, and things like longer feature races and/or GP would benefit more from things like the tyre wear/fuel use already mentioned. I'm personally a fan of being able to not race at qually speeds but seeing the fruits of your patience later when you don't pit, so i'm not sure pitstops should be mandated.
Only other thing i'd maybe propose is a 5-lap superpole qual, so it's not so focussed on 1 hot lap (bit of help for us noobs).

Stu....Stu.....wake up m8, i've finished

 

[Stuart Thomson]

Cars - slipstream is a coded part of the mod that I'm definitely not going to touch, but tyre & fuel usage could be adjusted easily (as indeed could be time scaling for some night racing).

Format - There would deffo be a break over the Chrimbo period if we went with a fortnightly schedule as well, basically giving us 2 x 4 event mini seasons. We could (theoretically) go with the normal 2 race format for 3 events per mini season, and then have a long enduro event for each mini season finale with double points or something. Too much more variation than that and it'll be too confusing, IMO.

 

[Michael Herrmann]

my 2 cent on this

cars not sure about did not much testing besides the cars we used already in fact i only know the standard academy cars and the ones we use right now
in the mini league so i will let you guys decide but as sayed befor as slower the cars are as close the racing is

teams i think is verry important thing atleast for me, i am in a great team of realy nice buddys and i realy would like to represent this team in any league
i take part ok i do but missing team points are a real issue there so i realy would like to see team points, you guys without team could easy build up one
and maybe it will even least longer as only for this league, but it should be not mandatory to have a team

the format i would like to have 8 to 10 events a 2 x 25 min races as we right now maybe do the last event 1 x 50 min with a pit stop, track i will honestly
have no clue and i am sure Stu will come up with some nice ones as he always did in the past but easterncreek lida and the glen should be part of this
at the glen plz the long version without chicane

if its starts at October i would mostlikey be back at home so that is a realy good date as i would have some time to get prepared

 

[Gary Lennon]

Its no secret im a rF Caterham freak eh?,but im also bad at this kind of input/feedback stuff just because im so easily pleased ,i know we could leave it to Stu to put a package together and i would love it,simple as that ,teams or no teams?,for sure there should be no ruling stating you must be in a team,but no harm at all in some guys pairing up in team trim,ammount of races i would like a minimum of 10 rounds to really get our teeth in to it and also a margin for error and an iffy round or two early maybe and still time and enough points to recover it later on,format that i like the best is sprints x2 races and i think a reversed top 8 would be a good thing too.
As for what Caterham class we use im like Hermy,im sure ive only tried what weve used in events so far i.e. Academy and RS140 and i have absolutely loved both so im sure i will be the same with them all.
My only real little personal suggestion thing would be a big Nords festival finale',maybe kind of enduro'ish with a stop?,and possibly double points for those late surge surprises jumbling the final order around a bit? .

 

[Stuart Thomson]

Some good stuff in here to this point, and I don't think we're too far apart from each other in a lot of the points and preferences raised thus far.

Some of you have even stumbled across a few ideas I'm currently toying with - no clues to who or what ideas they are, though

Keep it coming, people.

 

[Hans Sneep]

I go with Michael an Gary, both good; 8-10 events 2x25 min. last race long (pit stops in rF never done) but it gives a "real live" feeling an double points in last race.
Teams? maybe 2 people, one fast an one not that fast decided by the race director,reversed grid from p8 not my favourite, look at WTCC they fight for p8 to get pole in second race instead of fighting for a better place.
October is a good time to start I think, myself late on holiday in September bud back in time fore the "league"
A bout the car,we have still time to try some Cats out an I like the way we do it so far.

 

[Ross McGregor]

I like the idea of a 'team's championship' but i think a handicapping system (like what Hans suggests) would be better. (I'm just saying this as i've never been involved in a league before and i'd think that those who have been in teams together for a while would just walk it!) I think it'll provide an interesting talking point and will promote better relations between team members. (Not that there's any bad relations now!) Also, racing for your team gives those at the back of the field a real incentive to move from 14th to 13th position say, which should improve the racing. (Hopefully not increase incidents!)
A sprint/feature race sounds good, 10 min sprint race with 40 min feature perhaps? (plus mandatory stop)
A final round enduro sounds great, double points also. I tend not to favour the nurburging though, i think we've all been round there many, many times!
How about a night race too? Just some of my random thoughts!

 

[Stuart Thomson]

If we go the "teams" route, I won't be picking the teams - that will be up to the people themselves to arrange.

The way things are set up, those people who don't form a new (or join an existing) team will automatically be added to the "RD Drivers" team - that's how GPCOS is set up by default.

So let's say the following as an example:-

We've got 10 drivers - Gary, Michael, me, Wayne, Ross, Ron, Hans, Paul, Toni, Ben.

Gary & Michael are BVM.

me, Wayne & Ross form "Scuderia di Brixton"

Ron, Hans, Paul, Toni & Ben are all in "RD Drivers Team" by default

Then Ron & Hans decide to drive the League in the name of "Dutchglish racing"

Paul, Toni & Ben are still in "RD Drivers Team"

The teams will only be limited in size on the upper limit - eg max. 3 drivers (except for RD Drivers Team)

 

[Paul Wright]

So let's say the following as an example:-

We've got 10 drivers - Gary, Michael, me, Wayne, Ross, Ron, Hans, Paul, Toni, Ben.

Gary & Michael are BVM.

me, Wayne & Ross form "Scuderia di Brixton"

Ron, Hans, Paul, Toni & Ben are all in "RD Drivers Team" by default

Then Ron & Hans decide to drive the League in the name of "Dutchglish racing"

Paul, Toni & Ben are still in "RD Drivers Team"

aww the shame, this is like standing in the line to play footie at school and being left till last hahaha

Just a quick note on Ross's post suggesting a night race.....i haven't done any night 'circuit' racing but i've been involved in lots of short oval racing under lights online and the extra resources that dark racing needs proves to be a big drain of 'not brilliant' pc setups so i'd suggest a little caution with that tbh.
Overall though there's some great suggestions in the thread.....should keep Sir Thommo awake at night hehe (and ps Stu, i found your FFB settings yesterday to eliminate the dead zone in normal RealFeel and they're excellent, thank you very much )

 

[Stuart Thomson]

It was only a theorectical example mate

I know what you're saying about night racing - we might have a test in a club event soon to see how it goes.

 

[Ron Attwood]

2c. I have tiny concern about the phrase:

"tailor the cars and tracks so they "fit"."

That path could lead to a 'sameness'. Formula 1 and Monaco don't "fit" but it makes for a spectacle.

Just a thought. You know me, I'm happy to drive any track as long as it's a real one! :wink:

NederglishRacing.

 

[Stuart Thomson]

Totally agree, Ron. I just meant that tracks where we'd never get out of 3rd would be too frustrating, considering the lack of flexibility in the gearbox adjustment.
There would definitely be a variety of track types, giving a mix of challenges, but ones that hopefully would allow the cars to be enjoyed fully.

 

[Stuart Thomson]

OK - summary so far as I see it.

• Vehicles - there seems to be a preference for driveability as much as outright power. In that respect, the 140 is pretty good - the sticky tyres and smooth delivery of torque engine making it quick, but fairly user friendly. We'll see how we get on with the next season (Superlights - 10 more bhp, 35 less kg), and pick which one we like the best out of the RS140 & the Superlight. That way, we know the cars, there's enough time for me to sort out the whole "League" thing (tracks, teams, skins etc.), and no-one is springing anything new on anyone.
• Teams - this seems to be a general thumbs up from most people, so we'll say yes, teams will be the format, with all non-team drivers going to the RD Drivers Team. For non default teams, it'll be a max of 3 drivers per team - we won't worry about reserves, so if you name your team of 3, that's your lot - no subs, no replacements, just those 3 score your points. If one of them drops out, that's your team's hard luck. I've been shown how to increase the mod car limit should we get more than 21 interested parties, so we can expand if required.
• Format - We'll go for a 10 event season, with a Christmas / New Year break after 4 events. We'll keep the classic 2 x sprint race format for 8 of those 10 events, and we'll also have couple of double strength, double (or more) length, double points events for the last race before the Christmas break, and for the League season finale. I will also renew my investigations about top 8 grid reversals for race 2. As for tracks, well, in our first League season, I won't be going too nuts with completely untried tracks. We'll have quite a bit of data by the time I get round to finalising and publishing the schedule, so there will be some tracks we've already driven (albeit in some cases we used a different class of vehicle), and some tracks that I know work well from previous experience. Night racing or accelerated time is still under ref pending some tests in the Club events, but not ruled out - we just need to check that it's doable for everyone.

Sound about right?

 

[Paul Wright]

All looks canny.....re: reversing the grid slots, there is a tool on rfc called GridEdit that could perform that for you - you can set how many grid slots are manipulated and it produces an edited grid document that you run via a batch file command during warmup (i think - i believe you have to have direct access to the server to use this mind, i don't know how RD set their servers up and how much access the race admins have to the server desktop and mod folders - this would be best used within the results folder within rf).

 

[Stuart Thomson]

Yep - but even after following instructions ot the letter before, I've never ever managed to get this to work, but I know it's possible, so I'll soldier on :good:

I've got access to the server, so that might be a go-er.

 

[Alessandro Gamberini]

grid reversing is a very simple procedure, I did it in the past without problem, but you must have admin rights on that server

the steps from in game chat are:
* became admin inside game
* alt+tab and go to desktop to run "gridedit" programm, follow the instruction inside GUI
* go back to rFactor and than type the command to load on server the new grid.ini (at home I have all the exact commands ...)

anyway the best way to use it is to try it, far from official event

I usually have MSN on the whole day, feel free to use it if you need an help

ciao

 

[Paul Wright]

i can feel the new series routine having 5-minute warmup rather than 2 while Stu fights with GridEdit

Good luck sir