Rant: Cutting

[Jamie Wilson]

Big angry rant coming up.

I am fed up with people constantly whining about the cutting rules at Monza.

Maybe if you keep getting warnings and SnG penalties, you should perhaps.. *gasp* use less curb? The Monza cut rules are 1:1 with our rules; so if you get a SnG then you're on your own; don't start whining about it because you breached our rules, full stop.

Every single time we race at Monza; every single time since I have been here (2006), we have had people playing the "waah, the track rules are too tight!" card.

Newsflash: They aren't. We have to abide by the rules as set out in front of us; regardless of what drivers do in real life.

Maybe if some people didn't try and get 10000% out of the track 100% of the time, they wouldn't experience these problems. I don't put any part of my car beyond the red part of the curb, and I don't get a single warning. Isn't that better, over a race distance, than trying to push for an extra half-tenth, gambling all the time with a SnG penalty?

You don't always have to drive absolutely balls-to-the-wall flat out, you know; perhaps some people ought to learn about conservative driving.

I make a point about not cutting - you will NEVER see me cut on purpose, and if I do so by accident, I will always lift off the throttle. So it really annoys me that people are constantly trying to ignore chicanes and take them as straight as possible when they know that it's not abiding by our rules.

And for those of you thinking of the "but I was pushed" argument; if that happens you'll get a warning only. If you get a stop-go because you had a warning before; maybe you shouldn't've got a warning in the first place maybe? And anyway, in every situation where you are hit with no obvious fault of your own, there is anyway something to learn; always an answer to "What could I have done differently to avoid being put in that situation?"

So; if you get a stop-go in future, don't start whining at me about it and take a look at your own damn driving.

[/rant]

 

[Warren Dawes]

I totally agree Jamie. I always smile when I race Monza, watching all the cutters getting SnG's, but of course we have to endure all the complaining. The way to avoid the SnG's is pretty easy really.

 

[James Yates]

The thing im going to argue with that is that most of the time i get a stop and go is because ive made a mistake - and its hardly fair to give someone a penalty because they made a mistake which would lose them time anyway. The thing that really pissed me off tonight was the fact that i found that if you cut the corners less it will penalise you, but if you cut them with the whole car off the track it doesn't do anything. This meant that when taking a pretty normal line through a corner - e.g 2 wheels on the curb and 2 on the track, it will sometimes give a warning/penalty.

The problem with Monza is that the cutting rules are so much more apparent because most times you see a chicane taken with a lot of curb and of course that is the best way to take one at a good speed - this of course shows up with the warnings and penalties. The thing i found weird was by keeping more of my car on the track in the race than i had done in qualy i actually got more warnings! The cutting rules are also inconsitant on the chicanes as usually the first part of the chicane you can completely straight line (2nd chicane at Monza...) but the second part if you even so much as run it over the curbs it seems to find that unacceptable. I usually apply the RD rule that 2 wheels always have to be on the track - and with that in use at Monza its quite easy to get a lot of stop and go's whereas at other tracks you can easily get away with it.

 

[Yoeri Gijsen]

I'm with Jamie and Warren on the whining part. It's useless. SimBin has compensated for the lack of rules on Monza in RACE with very strict rules on Monza in RACE 07. I don't think they'll change it back or adjust it, so there's no use going all mad on it.

Now, as on any track you need to find the limits. Usually that limit is reached when you run out of curb (and the RaceDepartment rules become active), but on Monza you find your run into a penalty slightly before you run out of curb. Surely in the ideal situation you can touch 'em just a bit more, but that simply not the situation here. Accept it or don't bother racing at Monza 07.

No need to whine, no need to complain. It's just a matter of finding the limits and staying within them. It will take you approximately 10 laps. After that it's just concentration.

Personally I'd rather have the SnG in T1 of Monza when I get bumped, than ending up in a wall that SimBin can put there to kill the issue.

Let's just let it go and hope SimBin will have a look at it one day.

 

[Ben Tusting]

On a track like Monza it will take you a lot of time before you can find out where you can and can't go(Penalties)

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I totally disagree. The current Monza rules are a disgrace for the track. The real life racing lines are on top of the curb. WTCC last year almost wrecked their cars in the Ascari. Not to mention T1

To round a chicane good, you need to climb on top of it a little and that is not longer allowed on Monza but is on any other single track in Evo except for Monza and Imola.

Monza 06 was too loose and Monza 07 is too strict imho

 

[Ben Tusting]

The point made by Bram is spot on.

 

[Warren Dawes]

Monza 06 was too loose and Monza 07 is too strict imho

Unfortunately, there will never be a solution that everyone is happy with. In the end though, you have to learn the limits of a track and decide how close you want to push to that limit, be it grass, a wall, sand, or a cut limit. When you cross the limit, something bad may happen.
Each track has it's limits, so we should just deal within those limits.

No matter where Simbin put the cut limits, someone will be penalised and be unhappy.

 

[James Yates]

I think Warren summed it up pretty well there... Ill just have to stay away from Monza - unless its in a WTCC BMW which makes curbs feel more like a minefield - so there shouldn't be a cutting problem there

 

[Lee Downham]

... if its not accurate, then Simbin should try to sort it out ... if its just whinging ... then that's just life eh :wink:

 

[Yoeri Gijsen]

Unfortunately, there will never be a solution that everyone is happy with. In the end though, you have to learn the limits of a track and decide how close you want to push to that limit, be it grass, a wall, sand, or a cut limit. When you cross the limit, something bad may happen.
Each track has it's limits, so we should just deal within those limits.

No matter where Simbin put the cut limits, someone will be penalised and be unhappy.

Spot on.

I agree with you Bram that they are too strict, but surely it's better than the lack of them in 06.

 

[James Yates]

... if its not accurate, then Simbin should try to sort it out ... if its just whinging ... then that's just life eh :wink:

I think the problem is that whatever SimBin do - someone will have a problem with it.

 

[Ben Tusting]

There will always be whinging buggers

 

[Jari Vinnari]

Put some 10 ton virtual concrete "pigs" on those corner. No cutting or you pay the price. :evil:
Enna Pergusa track has that one very narrow place. If you get it slightly wrong...WHAM....game over and goodbye cruel world.

peace
Jari

 

[Christopher Aponte]

Actually the problem is that we will always "love to" b**** and whine no matter the situation at Monza


Other than that i have to say (my b****ing & whining ) that the cutting at Monza is really inconsistence
using the curb from one angle in the chicane will get you a warning or penalty, but using it from another angle, and it's a whole new ball game (of guessing/cutting).
another example is getting 2 wheels on sand in vialone/ascari and lifting off (loosing time) and you still get a penalty, now the question comes.....why do i get then a warning/penalty when in fact i lost some speed and i lifted off trying to get back on track?

I agree stay in the track boundaries.....but you can't help it but most of the times keep pushing to the limits.

 

[Lewis Fergusson]

The penaltys even when 2 wheels are on the curb is not great but I don't really see the point in having a go at the people who moan about it. Moaning at them won't stop them moaning. And to be fair if thats their opinion, just leave them be.

 

[Lee Downham]

... if its not accurate, then Simbin should try to sort it out ... if its just whinging ... then that's just life eh :wink:

I think the problem is that whatever SimBin do - someone will have a problem with it.

True and partially what I was saying
... buuuuut ...
I think the real concern is that if a high percentage of people are unhappy with it, and its non-realistic/silly/unfair, then IMO its not just whingers, its plain ol' wrong and should be sorted

And from the sounds of it, if its not sorted, then people won't wanna go there 'cos of the aggro it causes, and that is both a shame and a waste of a classic venue

You want harsh cutting "rules", try cutting the last chicane at Porto ound:

 

[James Yates]

True and partially what I was saying
... buuuuut ...
I think the real concern is that if a high percentage of people are unhappy with it, and its non-realistic/silly/unfair, then IMO its not just whingers, its plain ol' wrong and should be sorted

And from the sounds of it, if its not sorted, then people won't wanna go there 'cos of the aggro it causes, and that is both a shame and a waste of a classic venue

You want harsh cutting "rules", try cutting the last chicane at Porto ound:

Ive done that a few times... that's for sure

They just need to fix the Nurburgring then there will be no need for using any other tracks. :becky:

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

For everybody that followed this discussion about monza i strongly recommend to watch F1 now

 

[Ben Tusting]

I was watching the F1
If we did that we would get a stop go on every single lap