Race #8, USA-Indy: Post-Race Checks

[Kris Cobb]

Post-Race Checks

Alvaro Torres (1.75)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: -1.50 Penalty Points and +15 second penalty for Incident #6.

Borja Garcia (4.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Chris de Jong (1.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: Official Warning for Incident #1. -1.50 Penalty Points for Incident #2. Back of Grid, Feature Race Round 9, for Incident #2.

Daniel Kiss (4.75)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Daniel Bida (4.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: No Logs
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: Disqualified for no logs, Feature and Sprint.

Danny van der Niet (4.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Giordano Valeriano (1.75)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: -0.50 Penalty Points for Incident #3. -1.50 Penalty Points for Incident #4.

Jiri Toman (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Jonny Simon (3.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Marco Conti (1.25)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Martin Hodas (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Muhammed Patel (4.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Norbert Leitner (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Peter Helmbro (4.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Renan Lopes (3.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Sebastian Dunkel (4.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Thomas Mundy (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

Thomas Satherley (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty:

 

[Kris Cobb]

Incidents

Before going straight to the incidents verdicts take into account that there has been some rule changes this year regarding the penalty system and it may seem that penalties are harsher than previous years.

This year with the introduction of the Safety Rating value every driver gets 0.25 SR for aclean race (2 Races per Weekend).
That means that if a driver has a penalty of 1.5 penalty points he will be able to recover those penalty points doing 6 clean races (3 Race Weekends) while the previous years the driver had to do 5 consecutive clean races (5 Weekends) in order to “erase” his penalty points.

Incident #1
Driver(s) Involved Martin Hodás, Chris de Jong
Lap/Replay Time Lap 9 Q1 0:06
Protest Description Jong desperately trying to start one more lap before end of Q1 session. While Hodas was in hotlap, de Jong remained in less than 1 sec during whole Hodas´ lap, resulting in time loss.
Verdict de Jong does not cause considerable time loss.
Server Log, Chris de Jong:
<Lap num="9" p="14" et="547.2096" fuel="0.020" fcompound="2,Super Soft" rcompound="2,Super Soft">--.----</Lap>
de Jong started his lap and had not enough time to even start a hot lap. Official Warning, be aware others are on hot laps.

Also, wrecking on purpose after ANY SESSION is not acceptable. This will be enforced the rest of the season with a Race Ban (see Marek Godek's ban, Incident #13)

1.16
After crossing the finish line, the drivers can drive a parade lap back to the pits or press ESC as soon as they want. Drivers are not allowed to crash in to other cars or walls while celebrating/mourning the happenings of the race.

You guys are professionals. Lets act like it.


Incident #2
Driver(s) Involved Chris de Jong, Daniel Bida
Lap/Replay Time Race 1 Lap 5
Protest Description i was behind , surely i understand he had a damaged car , and i decided to keep going on the racing line as its the logic thing to do , despite him whobble. and he spun into me while keeping apply the throttle he had all left side off track to slow and get back to the pits. i have seen De-Jong on board footage . first , he had like 2 corners before realize his car in troubles , and more important , he didnt slow down at all before he started to spin in the back-straight, but only after.
Verdict -1.5pp De Jong for causing avoidable collision leading to DNF of Bida. Back of Grid for Round 9 Feature Race.

Incident #3
Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman, Giordano Valeriano
Lap/Replay Time Race 1 Lap 7, 0:06
Protest Description Jiri is trying to attack on the inside but Valeriano leaves no space while braking and colides with Jiri.
Verdict 6.2 c) You are not allowed to change your line at all when you are alongside another car. Alongside means any part of the other car is alongside ANY part of your car. Even if the other driver has only got his front-wing in front of your rear wing, you are not allowed to block.
Valeriano turns into the corner on the normal line while Toman has his nose alongside. -0.5pp to Valeriano.

Incident #4
Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman, Giordano Valeriano
Lap/Replay Time Race 1 Lap 11, 0:06
Protest Description Valeriano outbrakes himself and runs straight into Jiri which resulted in losing 2 positions.
Verdict Valeriano runs wide in braking, continues over the grass back to racing line without braking, makes contact resulting in spin and loss of positions for Toman. -1.5pp to Valeriano

Incident #5
Driver(s) Involved Alvaro Torres, Martin Hodas
Lap/Replay Time Race 2 Lap 19 0:04
Protest Description Alvaro started his maneuver and at the same time Hodas moves to the right doing a late defend.
Verdict Hodas defends in time before they are beside each other. No further action.

Incident #6
Driver(s) Involved Martin Hodás, Alvaro Torres
Lap/Replay Time Race 2 Lap 19 0:05
Protest Description Torres is overtaking Hodas. Then he is trying to get better line by moving more to the inside. Caused contact with Hodas, who hitted the wall resulting in lost position and major suspension damage - almost undriveable car.
Verdict Torres comes alongside Hodas and proceeds to move to the left to get a better line. This causes a collision with Hodas. -1.5 Penalty Points for Torres. Torres makes an error later in the lap, allowing Hodas to retake the position so no need for additional penalties. +15 Second Penalty.

 

[Martin Hodás]

Well, its not as bad this time, but let me point few little things...

#1 - As I said in description, when de Jong left the pit lane, he was whole lap in less than 1 sec infront of me during my last Q hotlap (3rd attempt), and I had no chance to improve my lap.
That crash behind f/s line wasnt main problem. I protested that lap before...

#2 - "Torres makes an error later in the lap, allowing Hodas to retake the position so no need for additional penalties."
Torres didnt make an error, he was pushing whole last 3 laps to the finish, while I was fighting with heavily damaged car. So I lost my 8th position.

Where did you get information, that Torres alowed me to retake my position??

 

[Alvaro Torres]

Awesome, -1.5 points for just a stupid incident.

I can't do this right now but I would like to record it and ask to rest of drivers if Hodas move is legal. You penalized the driver who just tried to avoid the accident and forgived the one who was looking his mirrors trying to catch me and cause an accident. By the way, I didn't make any error after the crash, you just invented that.

 

[Kris Cobb]

Awesome, -1.5 points for just a stupid incident.

I can't do this right now but I would like to record it and ask to rest of drivers if Hodas move is legal. You penalized the driver who just tried to avoid the accident and forgived the one who was looking his mirrors trying to catch me and cause an accident. By the way, I didn't make any error after the crash, you just invented that.

 

[Ho3n3r]

Awesome, -1.5 points for just a stupid incident.

I can't do this right now but I would like to record it and ask to rest of drivers if Hodas move is legal. You penalized the driver who just tried to avoid the accident and forgived the one who was looking his mirrors trying to catch me and cause an accident. By the way, I didn't make any error after the crash, you just invented that.

Did he like disappear off of your screen or something? Because on the broadcast he was clearly to your left, and he kept left, and you just decided to whack straight into him while he kept his line.

 

[Kris Cobb]

#1 - As I said in description, when de Jong left the pit lane, he was whole lap in less than 1 sec infront of me during my last Q hotlap (3rd attempt), and I had no chance to improve my lap.
That crash behind f/s line wasnt main problem. I protested that lap before...

And he has a right to make it to the line before the time ends. As I said he was far enough to where I don't feel he affected you that much.

#2 - "Torres makes an error later in the lap, allowing Hodas to retake the position so no need for additional penalties."
Torres didnt make an error, he was pushing whole last 3 laps to the finish, while I was fighting with heavily damaged car. So I lost my 8th position.

Where did you get information, that Torres alowed me to retake my position??

I will double check this.

 

[Martin Hodás]

Thx

 

[Victor Ivanov]

Guys may I kindly ask you to watch the white line on the right and the position of Alvaro's car. Thank you.

 

[Ho3n3r]

Guys may I kindly ask you to watch the white line on the right and the position of Alvaro's car. Thank you.

Good point. The white line is at a few degrees to the left angle at that point, showing even more clearly how he was moving to the left.

 

[Kris Cobb]

Incident #6 Updated.
+15 second Penalty added.

The spin I saw was after the checkered flag, I mistook that as the last lap.

 

[Alvaro Torres]

It's noy easy for me seeing if im moving to the left because Indy's straight is peculiar, like Victor said. He had more chances to avoid the incident than me, at least the same.

Anyway, penalty is disproportionate IMO.

 

[Carlos Martín]

Incident #6
Driver(s) Involved Martin Hodás, Alvaro Torres
Lap/Replay Time Race 2 Lap 19 0:05
Protest Description Torres is overtaking Hodas. Then he is trying to get better line by moving more to the inside. Caused contact with Hodas, who hitted the wall resulting in lost position and major suspension damage - almost undriveable car.
Verdict Torres comes alongside Hodas and proceeds to move to the left to get a better line. This causes a collision with Hodas. -1.5 Penalty Points for Torres. Torres makes an error later in the lap, allowing Hodas to retake the position so no need for additional penalties.

SR Rating

Repairs Needed: No

Time Lost Evaluation: Rest of The Race -> More than 5 seconds.

Guilty Driver Scored Points: Yes -> -0.50 SR + 5 to 30 seconds added to the driver's final race time.

Penalty applied: 1.5 SR + 15 sec added to the driver's final race time.

 

[Rob van Starkenburg]

The track surface itself even shows if you are driving in a straight line or not. Like shown in the video.

 

[Kris Cobb]

SR Rating

Repairs Needed: No

Time Lost Evaluation: Rest of The Race -> More than 5 seconds.

Guilty Driver Scored Points: Yes -> -0.50 SR + 5 to 30 seconds added to the driver's final race time.

Penalty applied: 1.5 SR + 15 sec added to the driver's final race time.

@Alvaro Torres
How can you agree with that post but think the penalty I applied is disproportionate? The only difference is 1 PP. Carlos is saying you should have 1 PP less, but the 15 second penalty is well deserved. You are a decently clean driver, with only 3 out of 12 races "not clean" so there should be no real risk to your Safety Rating for the season. I don't get your reasoning.

I don't use that SR Guide.

 

[Carlos Martín]

@Alvaro Torres
How can you agree with that post but think the penalty I applied is disproportionate? The only difference is 1 PP. Carlos is saying you should have 1 PP less, but the 15 second penalty is well deserved. You are a decently clean driver, with only 3 out of 12 races "not clean" so there should be no real risk to your Safety Rating for the season. I don't get your reasoning.

I don't use that SR Guide.

Then why other drivers takes 0.25 SR (Or 0.5 SR per GP) if you aren't using SR System.

When I don't use the SR system I fully justify why. If you say the only difference its 1.0 SR... 1.0 SR its quite a lot.

Im still asking myself, why 1.5? Did he lost the front wing? Did he lost any postion apart the one from Álvaro? Was he forced to pit? Terminal damage?

The SR Rating is really important for the drivers, mainly because if they have none they can't race

And I still didn't finish with this...

Just to show you how much your penalties makes sense, if Hodas didn't lose the position he would have less penalty for the same action?

 

[Alvaro Torres]

1 penalty point is enough to consider if penalty is fair or not. After reading last posts, now I don't care about my penalty, I've just seen that you have a serious criterion problem.

Overall and especially after Jim's penalty I perceive that rules are not important in FSR. You can have another point of view on a particular incident, I can understant it, but rules are rules and you have to respect it. I'm not blaming only Cobb, I think that Race Director system should change slightly, because just one person is not enough to properly punish all race incidents, even more when this person could have particular interests or just is not ready to do this job alone. Of course is just my opinion but I think that 2 or 3 persons would do a better and more objective work.

 

[David Dominguez]

Of course is just my opinion but I think that 2 or 3 persons would do a better and more objective work.

Yes? Who?

 

[Kris Cobb]

Then why other drivers takes 0.25 SR (Or 0.5 SR per GP) if you aren't using SR System.

I didn't say I don't use the SR system, I don't use that SR Guide. Of course I have been using the SR system all season.

Just to show you how much your penalties makes sense, if Hodas didn't lose the position he would have less penalty for the same action?

Of course... if he did not lose the position I would not have gave Torres a time penalty. Hodas ended up with a damaged car, something that could have effected his race worse. The SR Guide YOU AND EDUARD both use even says that.

 

[Kris Cobb]

1 penalty point is enough to consider if penalty is fair or not. After reading last posts, now I don't care about my penalty, I've just seen that you have a serious criterion problem.

Overall and especially after Jim's penalty I perceive that rules are not important in FSR. You can have another point of view on a particular incident, I can understant it, but rules are rules and you have to respect it.

17.3
Penalties will be administered following the Penalty Guidelines, but these are intended as guidelines only. In the end, the Race Director will be responsible of reviewing each incident independently.

I saw your move as dangerous and a somewhat severe incident. To me, you fully deserve the penalties I gave you. If this was earlier in the race Hodas, with a damaged car, could have lost even more positions.

6.2 (c)
You are not allowed to change your line at all when you are alongside another car. Alongside means any part of the other car is alongside ANY part of your car. Even if the other driver has only got his front-wing in front of your rear wing, you are not allowed to block