Race #6, United Kingdom: Post-Race Checks

Kris Cobb

Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal
Original poster
Dec 24, 2013
658
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Post-Race Checks

Alex Diaz (3.75)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: -1.50 PP for Incident #6.

Alvaro Torres (3.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: 2 x Official Warnings for Incident #4. 30 Second time penalty for Feature Race. 30 second time penalty for Sprint Race.

Artyom Aslamazyan (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: NA

Danny van der Niet (3.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: 2 x Official Warnings for Incident #5. 30 second penalty for Feature Race and 30 second penalty for Sprint Race for Incident #5.

Gennaro Celiento (2.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: NA

Giordano Valeriano (3.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: NA

Giuseppe Marconi (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: NA

Jiri Toman (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: NA

Jonny Simon (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: NA

Marco Conti (0.25)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: -1.00 PP for Incident #7. Drive through Penalty at Next Race for Incident #8.

Marek Godek (0.50)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: +30 Second Time Penalty for Feature Race and Official Warning for Incident #2.

Martin Hodas (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: NA

Norbert Leitner (4.25)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: 2 x Official Warnings for Incident #3. 30 Second Penalty, Sprint Race, for Incident #3.

Patrik Holzmann (2.25)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Not Used
Launch Control R2: Not Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: Official Warning for not using Launch Control (last warning, next time DQ)(Penalty will start at Germany). 2 x Official Warnings for Cutting/Extending Track for Incident #1. Disqualified, Sprint Race for Incident #1. -1.50 PP for Incident #9.

Thomas Satherley (5.00)
Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control R1: Used
Launch Control R2: Used
Pitstop: Clean
Tire Rules: Fulfilled
Penalty: NA
 
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Kris Cobb

Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal
Original poster
Dec 24, 2013
658
473
41
Incidents

Before going straight to the incidents verdicts take into account that there has been some rule changes this year regarding the penalty system and it may seem that penalties are harsher than previous years.

This year with the introduction of the Safety Rating value every driver gets 0.25 SR for aclean race (2 Races per Weekend).
That means that if a driver has a penalty of 1.5 penalty points he will be able to recover those penalty points doing 6 clean races (3 Race Weekends) while the previous years the driver had to do 5 consecutive clean races (5 Weekends) in order to “erase” his penalty points.

A lesson on track boundaries:
16.1
The race "track" is considered the main asphalt surface generally bounded by white lines, grass, walls or curbing. Curbs are usually painted in blue/white, green/white or red/white colors. Curbs are considered part of the track. The green, white or grey solid/grasscrete surfaces on the inside of the
curbs are NOT to be considered as part of the curbs. It is pretty clear and self explanatory using common sense at most tracks, but if you do have any doubts then don't hesitate to clear it up with
questions to the Race Director. The aim of the league is competition on a fair and level playing field. So all aspects of rules and definitions must be respected and obeyed by all drivers so that the
competition does remain even to all. On corners where the inner edge is cut across, at least two wheels must remain continually in contact with the defined "track" during their entire passage through the curve. The same basic outline is used to measure running wide. The Race Director may set up exceptions of the above mentioned rules for certain corners which will be announced on the forums.


2.9
A cut lap shouldn't bring an advantage or the same time as an average race lap without a cut. A cut lap will be considered illegal if that lap is faster than 101.5% of the fastest clean lap of the stint the cut happened in. If a cut is made during a pit-in or -outlap, that lap will automatically be considered a cut lap, regardless of the laptime.
If driver has up to 10% illegal cut laps - no actions
If driver has more than 10% illegal cut laps - +30 sec race time penalty
If driver has more than 20% illegal cut laps - +60 sec race time penalty
If driver has more than 30% illegal cut laps - DQ

For Silverstone this means:
Race - Laps - 10% - 20% - 30%
1 - 31 - 3 - 6 - 9
2 - 16 - 1.6 - 3.2 - 4.8
Warnings were handed out to cutters, whether or not the 101.5% rule was met.

For incidents 1-5, the first 'y' or 'n' is if a cut happened, then time, then if the cut counted (due to time, 101.5% rule). The sX-x:xx:xxx times are the best stint times.

Incident #1
Driver(s) Involved Patrik Holzmann
Lap/Replay Time Cutting
Protest Description
CUTS R1: 1:35.002 1.36.427
Lap 7 – T9 Copse y 1:35.288
Lap 11 – T15 Stowe n
Lap 11 – T18 y 1.35.989
Lap 14 – T9 y inlap
Lao 14 – T14 Becketts n/a already cut on same lap
Lap 14 – T15 Stowe n/a already cut on same lap
Verdict: 3 cuts, -10% cut, No Penalty. Official Warning.
CUTS R2: s1-1:34.634 1.36.054
Lap 1 – T14 Chapel y outlap
Lap 1 – T15 Stowe n/a already cut on same lap
Lap 4 – T9 Copse y 1:35.230
Lap 5 – T9 Copse y 1:35.917
Lap 8 – T9 Copse y 1:35.372
Lap 11 – T15 Stowe y 1:36.165 not below time
Lap 13 – T9 y 1:35.991
Lap 13 – T15 n/a already cut on same lap
Verdict: 5 cuts, +30% cut, Disqualified from Sprint Race. Official Warning.

Incident #2
Driver(s) Involved Marek Godek
Lap/Replay Time Cutting
Protest Description
CUTS R1: s1-1:35.849 s2-1:35.505 s3-1:34.713
Lap 1 - T9 Copse y outlap
Lap 5 - T9 Copse y 1:36.100 1.37.287
Lap 10 - T9 Copse y 1:35.237 1.36.937
Lap 13 - T9 Copse y 1:35.708
Lap 18 - T9 Copse y 1:38.043 n
Lap 19 - T15 Stowe y inlap
Lap 22 - T9 Copse y 1:35.657 1.36.134
Verdict: 6 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second Penalty. Official Warning.

Incident #3
Driver(s) Involved Norbert Leitner
Lap/Replay Time Cutting
Protest Description
CUTS R1: s1-1:35.504 s2-1:35.198
Lap 11 - T9 Copse y 1.37.124 1.36.936
Lap 12 - T9 Copse y 1.38.731
Lap 15 - T9 Copse n
Lap 17 - T9 Copse y 1.36.489 1.36.626
Lap 19 - T9 Copse y 1.35.537
Verdict: 2 cuts, -10% cut, No Penalty. Official Warning.
CUTS R2: s1-1:34.742
Lap 1 - T9 Copse y outlap
Lap 2 - T15 Stowe y 1.36.217 1.36.163 n
Lap 8 – T9 y 1.35.510
Lap 8 – T15 n/a already cut on same lap
Verdict: 2 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second Penalty. Official Warning.

Incident #4
Driver(s) Involved Alvaro Torres
Lap/Replay Time Cutting
Protest Description
CUTS R1: s3-1:35.570
Lap 16 - T9 Copse y outlap 1.37.003
Lap 17 - T9 Copse y 1:35.516
Lap 18 - T9 Copse y 1:35.533
Lap 19 - T18 Club y 1:37.522 n
Lap 22 - T9 Copse y 1:35.422
Verdict: 4 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second Penalty. Official Warning.
CUTS R2: s1-1:34.742
Lap 5 – T9 Copse y 1:35.944 1.36.163
Lap 9 – T15 Stowe y 1:35.096
Verdict: 2 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second Penalty. Official Warning.

Incident #5
Driver(s) Involved Danny Van der Niet
Lap/Replay Time Cutting
Protest Description
CUTS R1: s1-1:36.160 s2-1:34.582
Lap 1 - T9 Copse y outlap 1.37.602
Lap 6 - T9 Copse y 1:36.298
Lap 10 - T15 Stowe y 1:36.749
Lap 13 - T9 Copse y outlap 1.36.001
Lap 18 - T9 Copse y 1:35.858
Lap 27 - T9 Copse y 1:36.244 n
Lap 30 – T9 y 1:38.xxx n
Lap 30 – T15 n/a already cut on same lap
Verdict: 5 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second penalty. Official Warning.
CUTS R2: s1-1:34.658
Lap 3 - T9 Copse y 1:34.867 1.36.078
Lap 7 - T9 Copse y 1:36.065
Verdict: 2 cuts, +10% cut, +30 second penalty. Official Warning.

Incident #6
Driver(s) Involved Martin Hodas, Alex Diaz
Lap/Replay Time R1 - Lap 4 – Turn 6
Protest Description Diaz spun, and started accelerate right at moment when Hodas was next to him. Hodas lost front wing, had to do one more pitstop with 20sec of length, had suspension damage for rest of the race.
Verdict: Diaz does not respect right of way of oncoming cars and moves out into the racing line. Contact causes time loss, loss of wing and time lost in pits. -1.5 PP for Diaz.


Incident #7
Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman, Marco Conti
Lap/Replay Time R1 - Lap 5 – T6 – 0:26
Protest Description Conti closed doors on Toman and forced him to back out of it to avoid further contact and an accident leaving Toman unable to fight for the position.
Verdict: Conti tries to push Toman off the track, causing contact. -1.00 PP for Conti. Drivers must leave room once the other driver is beside of them.


Incident #8
Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman, Marco Conti
Lap/Replay Time R1 - Lap 13 – Pits – 1:24
Protest Description Conti completely misses the braking point, hits Toman causing damage.
Verdict: Conti causes contact in the pit lane. This may have causes damage that effected car for the rest of the race. Drive through Penalty at Germany for careless driving. Race ban too harsh since he retired at Silverstone.
From the General Rules Document:
2.6 General careless or disruptive driving or behavior - Race Ban Penalty


Incident #9
Driver(s) Involved Jiri Toman, Patrik Holzmann
Lap/Replay Time R2 - Lap 14 – T3,T4
Protest Description Holzmann pushes Toman completely off the track even when leaving the door wide open. Patrik closes the door in the next turn causing Toman to spin and losing 3 positions.
Verdict: Holzmann causes Toman to run off track. He then turns-in to the corner too soon, causing both drivers to spin and lose positions. -1.50 PP for Holzmann.
 
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Martin Hodás

100RPM
Jan 6, 2014
207
43
29
What we can say... I accept there is 101.5% rule. But why they got only +10 sec instead of +30 sec penalty as is stated in rules???

And also, Conti has safety ratin 1.0 since Canada. Now he has 0.25 (only cos nobody protested R2), and he still havent back of the grid penalty for it, as is stated in rules too. Why we have these rules if what is written does not apply??
 

danielino

100RPM
May 3, 2011
134
84
30
What we can say... I accept there is 101.5% rule. But why they got only +10 sec instead of +30 sec penalty as is stated in rules???
sorry, what? 30 seconds for 2 cuts? :D even the 10 second penalty is way too harsh for 2 and 3 cuts...
 

Martin Hodás

100RPM
Jan 6, 2014
207
43
29
If driver has up to 10% illegal cut laps - no actions
If driver has more than 10% illegal cut laps - +30 sec race time penalty
If driver has more than 20% illegal cut laps - +60 sec race time penalty
If driver has more than 30% illegal cut laps - DQ


I agree, but its in the rules. If we want different penalties for 30/60% races, it should be defined separately for Ace/Pro
 

Jiří Toman

25RPM
Jan 7, 2014
40
17
23
2.13 When a driver reaches beneath 1.0 [Safety Rating] they will receive a back of the grid penalty for the following event.
Conti has 0.25, yet he receives only Drive Through Penalty for Incident 8.

Now to the cuts:
2.9 A cut lap shouldn't bring an advantage or the same time as an average race lap without a cut. A cut
lap will be considered illegal if that lap is faster than 101.5% of the fastest clean lap of the stint the
cut happened in. If a cut is made during a pit-in or -outlap, that lap will automatically be considered
a cut lap, regardless of the laptime.

1) If driver has up to 10% illegal cut laps - no actions
2) If driver has more than 10% illegal cut laps - +30 sec race time penalty
3) If driver has more than 20% illegal cut laps - +60 sec race time penalty
4) If driver has more than 30% illegal cut laps - DQ


As most of the incidents were judged wrongly, I made a new list of cuts. As you can see, I added the 101,5% time to every stint of every driver who was judged wrongly so it is clear to see if it is cut or not. I demand rejudging the incidents as well as the penalties itself.

Holzmann
CUTS R2: s1-1:34.634 101.5%: 1:36.053
Lap 1 – T14 Chapel OUTLAP- CUT
Lap 1 – T15 Stowe OUTLAP- CUT
Lap 4 – T9 Copse 1:35.230 CUT
Lap 5 – T9 Copse 1:35.917 CUT
Lap 8 – T9 Copse 1:35.372 CUT
Lap 11 – T15 Stowe 1:36.165 OUT OF 101,5%
Lap 13 – T9 1:35.990 CUT
Right Verdict: 6 cuts (37.5% cut laps) - DQ

Leitner:
CUTS R2: s1-1:34.742 101.5%: 1:36.163
Lap 1 - T9 Copse OUTLAP - CUT
Lap 2 - T15 Stowe 1:36.216 OUT OF 101,5%
Lap 8 – T9 1:35.509 CUT
Right Verdict: 2 cuts (12.5% cut laps)- 30sec penalty


Alvaro Torres
CUTS R1: s2-1:34.404 s3-1:35.570 101.5%: s2: 1:35.820 s3: 1:37.003
Lap 16 - T9 Copse OUTLAP - CUT
Lap 17 - T9 Copse y 1:35.516 CUT
Lap 18 - T9 Copse y 1:35.533 CUT
Lap 19 - T18 Club y 1:37.522 OUT OF 101,5%
Lap 22 - T9 Copse y 1:35.422 CUT
Right Verdict: 4 cuts (13% cut laps) - 30sec penalty


Danny van der Niet
CUTS R1: s1-1:36.159 s2-1:34.582 101.5%: s1: 1:37.601 s2: 1:36.000
Lap 1 - T9 Copse OUTLAP - CUT
Lap 6 - T9 Copse y 1:36.298 CUT
Lap 10 - T15 Stowe y 1:36.749 CUT
Lap 13 - T9 Copse OUTLAP - CUT
Lap 18 - T9 Copse y 1:35.858 CUT
Lap 27 - T9 Copse y 1:36.244 OUT OF 101,5%
Lap 30 – T9 y 1:38.xxx OUT OF 101,5%
Right Verdict: 5 cuts (16% cut laps) - 30 sec penalty

CUTS R2: s1-1:34.658 101.5%: 1:36.078
Lap 3 - T9 Copse y 1:34.867 CUT
Lap 7 - T9 Copse y 1:36.065 CUT
Right Verdict: 2 cuts (12.5% cut laps) - 30 sec penalty
 
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Kris Cobb

Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal
Original poster
Dec 24, 2013
658
473
41
Conti and Godek have Back of Grid at Germany / next race. This is in the Penalty thread because not a direct result of any of the Incidents above but as a whole over the season.
In other words, the verdict did not result in a start from pits, but rather his safety rating dipping below 1.00.

http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/ace-2014-penalties-and-safety-rating.13686/

Toman, not sure where you are getting your times from.
 
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Kris Cobb

Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal
Original poster
Dec 24, 2013
658
473
41
My apologies it should be +30 seconds.

Penalties updated.
 

Marco Conti

50RPM
Jun 5, 2010
58
5
2.13 When a driver reaches beneath 1.0 [Safety Rating] they will receive a back of the grid penalty for
the following event.

I should start from the back of the grid, not from the Pit. Are you a bit confused or you just add this penalty 5 minutes ago?
Also, let others help you in public to take decision and change the verdict of penalty is not actually really fair. I never complained so far for you decisions and verdicts, but giving me 1 SR point for incident #7 is not fair I think. I had massive lag and syncro problem, is pretty obvious if you watch at the replay. I closed the door simply cause I knew Toman was 2 second behind me, not 2 tenths...If I have someone behind of 2 seconds I don't usually pay attention at my mirrors, sorry about that.
 

David Dominguez

2000RPM
Apr 29, 2010
2,677
1,734
What is wrong about that? Obviously the gap disappears because he is continuously closing in on me. He divebombed me and pushed me off the track. What more could I have done in this situation.. he closed the doors and got penalty for that.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qwzh5jwy937utqq/contact.png
The first part is Patrik's fault yes (pushing you wide), but that screenshot doesn't tell much due to cam position + FOV.

In the attached screenshot you can see where are Patrik's front tires pointing to, and how there was enough space for both cars. Not much space, but enough, like Bono did here with Morgan at 0:02
Your car was also sliding, so you weren't in full control of the car...
 

Attachments

Kris Cobb

Avid Chronic Racing | Team Principal
Original poster
Dec 24, 2013
658
473
41
2.13 When a driver reaches beneath 1.0 [Safety Rating] they will receive a back of the grid penalty for
the following event.

I should start from the back of the grid, not from the Pit. Are you a bit confused or you just add this penalty 5 minutes ago?
Also, let others help you in public to take decision and change the verdict of penalty is not actually really fair. I never complained so far for you decisions and verdicts, but giving me 1 SR point for incident #7 is not fair I think. I had massive lag and syncro problem, is pretty obvious if you watch at the replay. I closed the door simply cause I knew Toman was 2 second behind me, not 2 tenths...If I have someone behind of 2 seconds I don't usually pay attention at my mirrors, sorry about that.
Yes Back of Grid. Updated.

Massive Lag and syncro problems if you knew this you should have left more room.
 

Jiří Toman

25RPM
Jan 7, 2014
40
17
23
The first part is Patrik's fault yes (pushing you wide), but that screenshot doesn't tell much due to cam position + FOV.

In the attached screenshot you can see where are Patrik's front tires pointing to, and how there was enough space for both cars. Not much space, but enough, like Bono did here with Morgan at 0:02
Your car was also sliding, so you weren't in full control of the car...
I was absolutely in full control of the car, I was just trying to brake and avoid the contact which was impossible anyway. Of course at that particular moment the screenshot shows there was enough space but a tenth after that there was not any.

Im 3/4 car length ahead , im allowed to turn in.
Are you serious? It is not about some 3/4 length ahead.. my front wing was on the same level as your rear wheels so you had absolutely no right to turn in.
 

David Dominguez

2000RPM
Apr 29, 2010
2,677
1,734
I was absolutely in full control of the car, I was just trying to brake and avoid the contact which was impossible anyway. Of course at that particular moment the screenshot shows there was enough space but a tenth after that there was not any.
No you arent, before the contact you were going a bit sideways as we can see here.


And we can also see that judging Patrik's corner radius, there was space all the time. Tight but enough.
 

Marco Conti

50RPM
Jun 5, 2010
58
5
Yes Back of Grid. Updated.

Massive Lag and syncro problems if you knew this you should have left more room.
How could I knew that...? When you had that the only thing you can see is the car behind you disappear, not your one slow down. I didn't close the door I repeat, I just did my line like I would do alone..Do you still think is a "bad behaviour on track that may cause a 1SR penalty"?