Race #3, China: Post-Race Discussion

We are talking about cutting on last corner without gain time, it's normal that if someone with cutting gain 5-10 km/h should be penalized, but as I think david lost some pace on outlap, as I did why should we penalized? we penalized ourself with our mistake. I want to point out that I'm talking about outlap on Q not during the race.

How he lost some pace if he made wider the corner? Hard to prove what you say unless he gave the throttle off for some ms...
 
FSR has very flexible cutting rules, in F1 and other series curb is not counted part of track (not commenting on this outlap thing). If you know any bulletproof solution to improve tracks to cut-free, let me know, as we could perhaps improve it. Although funny thing is we used this very same track with same materials in 2014, and zero cut protests.
 
FSR has very flexible cutting rules, in F1 and other series curb is not counted part of track (not commenting on this outlap thing). If you know any bulletproof solution to improve tracks to cut-free, let me know, as we could perhaps improve it. Although funny thing is we used this very same track with same materials in 2014, and zero cut protests.
I do not think that flexibility is the right word . It is different , yes, but not to say that it is more flexible neither wrong. I don't have any tips for race cuts I think FSR rules are ok. Maybe penalty for cutting are too strict, 4 cuts in pro=30s penalty but I don't want to talk about that. I'm talking about outlap on Q. On rules there is nothing about that so we have to use common sense to judge these episodes. Did you gain pace? BOG, you didn't? No penalty.
So please tell me now where david gained pace
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xexonnwrzoz9igz/provadavid.rar?dl=0
he had always the same speed before DRS line.
 
Mistakes or not, you can't prove if you did it intentional or not, going wide with 1 cm or 5 meters. I could gain 0.5 sec to take last corner on full throttle and going wide to the walls, then I will defend myself "but that was on my outlap". It's not that hard to keep 4 wheels within the track lines, even when we are talking about outlap.
 
Guys I think this cut rule should be changed a bit, 30 seconds for 10% of cutting laps is way too much, expecially for this kind of cuts. It create double work for Race Directors and teams making protests. It is way too far from racing in my point of view.
PS: I would also now if someone will do something for ACE also, official race replay is still missing and no one seems to be alive for post race checks.
 
Guys I think this cut rule should be changed a bit, 30 seconds for 10% of cutting laps is way too much, expecially for this kind of cuts. It create double work for Race Directors and teams making protests. It is way too far from racing in my point of view.
PS: I would also now if someone will do something for ACE also, official race replay is still missing and no one seems to be alive for post race checks.
Racing is keeping the car on track.

Blair has to procure an ACE Replay bc of an issue with the server. WC checks are normally up WAY before the other divisions. They'll get done.
 
I would suggest giving different penalties for different cuts. I know there are major and minor cuts but I think that's not enough and it's not precise. For example if someone cuts but has one wheel on the kerb the penalty should be very minimal, let's say 1sec for each cut over 10%. If it's less than half a car's width then it could be 3sec for each cut, and over half a car's width it could be 5-6s for each. Same could be applied for qualy. For example a really small cut could be penalised with 5 or 10 place grid penalty. Obviously I was the one penalised after China so I'm a bit sensitive but 60-70% of my cuts were done with one wheel still on the kerb, so generally because I had small oversteer moments, but then some drivers were extending by a full meter or two and the penalty is exactly the same. Of course racing is about staying on the track, but if there is a different penalty for a small accident and a different penalty for smashing into someone and ending his race then having different penalties for different cuts might not be such a bad idea. Having said that it would create a lot more work for the race directors.
 
Guys I think this cut rule should be changed a bit, 30 seconds for 10% of cutting laps is way too much, expecially for this kind of cuts.

Well the rule is same as it was last 4 or 5 years. I sound like a broken record, but the problem is no matter what discussion is here, it's ultimately those 4 or 5 (independent) teams in TOA that decide everything about rules, so nothing will change. They didn't want a change before season when rules were discussed, and changing it now with this TOA structure is very complicated.
 
I just checked my local replays to see if I cut, and I clearly have 2 wheels touching the curb with inches on my outlap exit... so I need to protest that decision, probably the server replay was unable to pickup the exact position of my car... Where can I protest this and upload my replay?

P.S. I checked my slower Q lap was also clean, but for future, is it only the fastest lap in Q1 which counts for cutting or can u get penalized even for cutting on a slower lap even if the faster lap was clean?
 
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I just checked my local replays to see if I cut, and I clearly have 2 wheels touching the curb with inches on my outlap exit... so I need to protest that decision, probably the server replay was unable to pickup the exact position of my car... Where can I protest this and upload my replay?

P.S. I checked my slower Q lap was also clean, but for future, is it only the fastest lap in Q1 which counts for cutting or can u get penalized even for cutting on a slower lap even if the faster lap was clean?
Fastest lap only.

Anything lag related I can take a look at. PM me a link to your Q replay (NOT just hotlap) and I can take a look.

Your team manager can also appeal WC decisions.
 
Funny u say that mike..how would you classify your infield track cutting with a damaged car in aussie..that was a blatent deliberate cut to save many many seconds...and before u say "common sense" u say above "u simply shouldnt do it"...and since u dnf..shouldnt u have had a penalty carried forward for cutting?
 
Funny u say that mike..how would you classify your infield track cutting with a damaged car in aussie..that was a blatent deliberate cut to save many many seconds...and before u say "common sense" u say above "u simply shouldnt do it"...and since u dnf..shouldnt u have had a penalty carried forward for cutting?
What I dont understand is, are you a Team Owner or a driver or why do you care that much about this Sh*t?
 
Funny u say that mike..how would you classify your infield track cutting with a damaged car in aussie..that was a blatent deliberate cut to save many many seconds...and before u say "common sense" u say above "u simply shouldnt do it"...and since u dnf..shouldnt u have had a penalty carried forward for cutting?

I classify that as a 'oh no/(insert swear word) what happened to my rear wing'.

Come on be sensible now.
 
Hey George password the forum if u dont want people chirping in..until then its free to do so ok..and av followed this league for years and weirdly have an opinion... mike i expected that response because ur right it was common sense :) but as u say above its black and white, no exceptions dont do it..apart from when you did and expect common sense to suit you..you didnt know you where gonna dnf and u deliberately cut..in the scheme of things much worse then say michis 4 or 5 milometer extensions which imo still doesnt deserve the same pen as a dope who wrecks someones race...so am glad u agree that a more common sense approach is needed cos atm you are 1 up :)
 
If he cut in aussie and nobody protested him, then there are no consequences. A director can't review 56 laps of every single driver, that's why we have protesting system. As for common sense, it's more efficient for director to follow rules than make their own rules, that's what rules are there for, to save time of director and lay a base ground for everyone.
 
About Cut penalty. I would suggest to take as reference the sector time and not the laptime for the 101.5% rule cutting.
Because if we are at full attack compared to previous laps. even if you are 1s slower in the sector you cut but 0.5s faster in the 2 other sectors, the lap is considered as cut whereas you lost momentum in this case.

Just a suggestion to improve the rules :)
Have a good evening.
 
Agree john but as kuba said the scale should be reasonable An tbf it was on the broadcast for all to see..So a question to u..if a protest went in over mike giving the above views and the bogs bans and 30 secs handed out for tiny margins...where do yous stand with a deliberate cut..damage or no damage..a cut is a cut?
 

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