Race #08, Spain: Post-Race Checks

[Mikko Puumalainen]

The appeal deadline is Thursday, August 9th @ 13:25 GMT

Morgan Morand

Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 11, 22, 33, 45
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Rasmus Tali

Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 8, 18, 28, 38, 47
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: 0.5 Penalty Points for Incident #4

Jack Keithley

Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 10, 20, 30, 39, 48 Cut (1st time)
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: Official Warning for pit exit infraction

Yannick Lapchin

Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 10, 22, 34, 46
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: 0.5 Penalty Points for Incident #1

Gergo Baldi

Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 9, 19, 28, 38, 47
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Blair Disley

Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 8, 18, 28, 38, 48
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Petar Brljak

Q1: N/A (started from the back of the grid)
Q2: N/A
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 11, 23, 34, 46
GPCOS: Late GPCOS comment (2nd time)
Penalty: 0.5 Penalty Points for late GPCOS comment

Patrick De Wit

Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 12, 24, 36, 47
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Jim Parisis

Q1: N/A (started from the back of the grid)
Q2: N/A
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 11, 22, 34, 46
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: 0.5 Penalty Points for Incident #5

John-Eric Saxen

Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 7, 17, 28, 38, 48
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Jeffrey Rietveld

Q1: N/A (started from the back of the grid)
Q2: N/A
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 11, 22, 33, 45 Cut (1st time), 46
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: Official Warning for pit exit infraction

Peter Varga

Q1: Clean
Q2: N/A
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 9, 19, 28, 38, 47
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: 1.0 Penalty Points for Incident #2

Giuseppe Marconi

Q1: Clean
Q2: N/A
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 14, 28, 42
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Jaakko Mikkonen

Q1: Clean
Q2: N/A
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 11, 23, 35, 47
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Michael Francesconi

Q1: Clean
Q2: N/A
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 11, 22, 34
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Sebastiano Filosa

Q1: Clean
Q2: N/A
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 10, 21
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Eros Masciulli

Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 2 Cut (1st time), 17 Cut (2nd time)
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: 0.5 Penalty Points for pit exit infraction

Markus Hoffman

Q1: Clean
Q2: N/A
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 11, 13
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Stefan Kanitz

Q1: N/A (started from the pit lane)
Q2: N/A
Log: .tmp log
Launch Control: N/A (started from the pit lane)
Pitstop: Lap 11
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Marcel van der Linden

Q1: Clean
Q2: N/A
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 11, 13
GPCOS: Late GPCOS comment (2nd time)
Penalty: 0.5 Penalty Points for late GPCOS comment

George Chatzipantelis

Q1: N/A (started from the back of the grid)
Q2: N/A
Log: No files
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: Lap 1
GPCOS: Late GPCOS comment (4th time)
Penalty: Disqualification for no log file, 0.5 Penalty Points for late GPCOS comment, 0.5 Penalty Points for Incident #3

Jonatan Åcerclinth

Q1: N/A
Q2: N/A
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used (stalled)
Pitstop: N/A
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: N/A

Eduard Mallorqui

Q1: Clean
Q2: Clean
Log: Clean
Launch Control: Used
Pitstop: N/A
GPCOS: Late GPCOS comment (1st time)
Penalty: Official Warning for late GPCOS comment

Thomas Cooke

Q1: Wrong file sent (Warmup hot lap)
Q2: N/A
Log: Save All Replay Sessions="0"
Launch Control: Not used
Pitstop: N/A
GPCOS: Ok
Penalty: Back of the grid in the next race for qualifying infraction, Disqualification for LC infraction, Official Warning for log infraction

 

[Mikko Puumalainen]

Incidents:

#1

Driver(s) Involved: Rasmus Tali, Yannick Lapchin

Lap/Replay Time: 1 / 3:45

Review: Lapchin and Tali are approaching T1 side by side on the first lap, Tali is on the inside. Tali has his front wing in front of Lapchin's car as they start turning in for T1. Tali makes a slight error under braking, shifting down to 1st gear. This causes him to take an awkward line in to the corner. Lapchin meanwhile is taking a wide, but tight entry considering he knows Tali is there. They make contact in the middle of T1 and are side by side through T2, but with Lapchin slowly pulling ahead. As they exit T2, Lapchin moves towards the outside wall while Tali's car is still alongside, causing Tali to lose momentum and any possibility of challenging the position in to T3.

Verdict: 0.5 Penalty Points for Yannick Lapchin (from the actions at the exit of T2)

#2

Driver(s) Involved: Peter Varga, Eros Masciulli

Replay Time: 3min 53sec

Review: Varga and Masciulli are approaching T3 with Masciulli directly in front of Varga. Varga attempts to take the inside line for the braking zone of T3, but misjudges and is still on a collision course behind Masciulli as the cars in front start to brake. Masciulli reacts to this by braking as well. Varga makes heavy contact with Masciulli, causing Masciulli to spin in to the two cars in front, severely compromising their race as well.

Verdict: 1.0 Penalty Points for Peter Varga

#3

Driver(s) Involved: Jeffrey Rietveld, George Chatzipantelis

Lap/Replay Time: 1 / 3:54

Review: Chatzipantelis is exiting T2 on the outside when he loses traction, causing his car to slide in to the side of Rietveld. Rietveld's car starts to spin towards the outside wall, during all this, Chatzipantelis still continues to accelerate, stopping only after both of their cars are in the wall.

Verdict: 0.5 Penalty Points for George Chatzipantelis

#4

Driver(s) Involved: Rasmus Tali, Yannick Lapchin

Replay Time: 7min 2sec

Review: Lapchin and Tali are approaching T1, with Lapchin in front and taking the normal racing line. Tali has his front wing alongside Lapchin's car before the braking zone, but loses ground initially when the cars start to decelerate. Tali then attempts to close in rapidly right before the turn-in point, hoping Lapchin gives space. Lapchin however turns in using his normal line, resulting in contact, during which Lapchin loses momentum and the position to Tali and soon after to Baldi as well.

Verdict: 0.5 Penalty Points for Rasmus Tali

#5

Driver(s) Involved: Jeffrey Rietveld, Jim Parisis

Lap/Replay Time: 10 / 20:10

Review: Rietveld and Parisis are approaching the final corner with Rietveld multiple car lengths in front of Parisis. Parisis carries too much speed through the braking phase, and locks his rear tires as he nears Rietveld's car, causing him to slide and make contact with Rietveld, possibly causing damage.

Verdict: 0.5 Penalty Points for Jim Parisis

 

[Yannick Lapchin]

#1

Driver(s) Involved: Rasmus Tali, Yannick Lapchin

Lap/Replay Time: 1 / 3:45

Review: Lapchin and Tali are approaching T1 side by side on the first lap, Tali is on the inside. Tali has his front wing in front of Lapchin's car as they start turning in for T1. Tali makes a slight error under braking, shifting down to 1st gear. This causes him to take an awkward line in to the corner. Lapchin meanwhile is taking a wide, but tight entry considering he knows Tali is there. They make contact in the middle of T1 and are side by side through T2, but with Lapchin slowly pulling ahead. As they exit T2, Lapchin moves towards the outside wall while Tali's car is still alongside, causing Tali to lose momentum and any possibility of challenging the position in to T3.

Verdict: 0.5 Penalty Points for Yannick Lapchin (from the actions at the exit of T2)​

Simply unfair :

 

[William Levesque]

lol.... Another instance of rFactor's amazing collision physics. Hence why I don't bother racing open wheelers too much, too blatantly ridiculous

 

[Mikko Puumalainen]

Simply unfair :

Seems like I'll have to deal with this every race now.

Like I told your current/ex/banned/whatever teamboss, you should've left more space since you clearly knew he was there in both instances. Also the 1st incident played part in the decision making, since there you didn't give him space. While the contact in the 2nd incident caused you to lose 2 positions, you again chose to give zero space to him. Clearly Tali wasn't innocent in the incident, like I described in my review in regards to his final approach to the corner, thus explaining the 0.5 penalty points he got.

Also I find it interesting that Morand supports you instead of Tali's side in this incident, considering what we know he thinks should be allowed on track (divebombs, pushing people wide and such). Perhaps you've finally seen the light, Morgan?

 

[Morgan Morand]

Also I find it interesting that Morand supports you instead of Tali's side in this incident, considering what we know he thinks should be allowed on track (divebombs, pushing people wide and such). Perhaps you've finally seen the light, Morgan?

Hallelujah. Thanks "God" mikko. You enlighten my poor soul with your penalties. You take me from Hell ( sarcasm )

No i'm supporting Yannick for the first lap incident.
0.5pts is a hard penalty i think. Ok he closed " a bit" the door to tali, in front of his nose, that's all.
This is a awful corner here. The tyres are very cold etc.
And Lapchin at the moment he is penalized is far in front of tali. Tali just needs to throttle less, let pass lapchin and defend his position to baldi, because he couldn't pass here ( same as Varga/me incident at Monaco ). in T1, Tali ( i just saw this video ) tries to avoid to take the kerbs and goes to Lapchin car.
So for me 1 "contact" for each driver = racing incident.
We have virtual mirrors mandatory. Use them to see where are your opponents.

For incident N°2 :

Even if Yannick give 1 car lenght between his car and the kerb at T2, tali will "touch" his car at 80% sure. Because his braking was a bit timid and the angle he take the corner with the angle of yannick. Both will collide. Just missjudging, yannick didn't have the reflex with tali approaching to decrease the angle of the wheel. After the consequence does that Tali took an advantage. If Yannick keep his position. I won't punish them for this.

Ps : Divebombs are not disallowed. if we success, It's just a risky move. but we need to have a very focused driver in front and he has the skill to stop his initial trajectory. And the majority of drivers continue their trajectory.
I success some divebomb with Jim Parisis during practice at spa. and vice versa, because we look in mirrors the progression of the braking of the other driver. That's all. This is not difficult. This is racing. not utopic and robotic racing... or put 26 IAs and podcast the race directly

 

[Mikko Puumalainen]

Ps : Divebombs are not disallowed. if we success, It's just a risky move. but we need to have a very focused driver in front and he has the skill to stop his initial trajectory. And the majority of drivers continue their trajectory.
I success some divebomb with Jim Parisis during practice at spa. and vice versa, because we look in mirrors the progression of the braking of the other driver. That's all. This is not difficult.

The car in front is not obliged to give any more than 1 car width of space if someone does a "moderate" divebomb like in the 2nd Tali/Lapchin incident.

This is racing. not utopic and robotic racing... or put 26 IAs and podcast the race directly

Or just follow the rules and everything will be fine (racing entertainment value included).

Hallelujah. Thanks "God" mikko. You enlighten my poor soul with your penalties. You take me from Hell ( sarcasm )

I'm not giving up hope for you yet

 

[David Dominguez]

lol.... Another instance of rFactor's amazing collision physics. Hence why I don't bother racing open wheelers too much, too blatantly ridiculous

It's funny how is rFactor undersestimated so often, I bet it's again modder's fault and not the game.

 

[William Levesque]

It's funny how is rFactor undersestimated so often, I bet it's again modder's fault and not the game.

Well, I haven't seen a mod where wheels can interlock and where the "Space-wrap nose-cut" is not possible so...

 

[Mark Aalberts]

It's funny how is rFactor undersestimated so often, I bet it's again modder's fault and not the game.

I would swear that someone has told earlyer this year that the collision model for this mod was made more lenient with as result that its clearly visible now that cars can go little trough eachother.

 

[David Dominguez]

Well, I haven't seen a mod where wheels can interlock and where the "Space-wrap nose-cut" is not possible so...

Surely there are mods with good collision models, but I'm afraid 95% of them are just copy-pasted from other mods.

I would swear that someone has told earlyer this year that the collision model for this mod was made more lenient with as result that its clearly visible now that cars can go little trough eachother.

Not sure what do you mean.

 

[Yannick Lapchin]

To be clear, here are thoughts :

For 3rd lap incident I left 1/2 car space on purpose. It was intentionnal, because for the first 3 laps Rasmus did some divebombs (moderated) that I avoided. This time I wanted to show him that I can defend more agressively, but he didn't have time to avoid me. There I think it's a racing incident, though I lost 2 places cause of a divebomb. I took a risk by leaving not enough space, but again it's because Rasmus attempted sometimes to overtake me with late braking, earlier in the race.

For the first lap incident in my opinion I leave enough space (more than one car width counting the kerb, that we often drive on in race). There's a contact, because as you said Mikko, Rasmus shifts down one time too many, loses grip on the rear because of this, and is forced to keep on a straight line while entering the curve so we collided. After this I'm pulling away, not "slightly", but with 1 car lenght in the exit. Also you see in turn 3 Rasmus attempted a divebomb already, but not succeded.

Really it's not a problem having a penality, it certainly is one of the first "on track" penality I get this year, and it's a very light one, with no consequence. I really hesitated posting the video on the forum because it's like fighting for nothing. But I wanted to show something that is unfair to me (also because some of us are in vacation and have some time to kill... )

 

[Mark Aalberts]

Not sure what do you mean.

I feel the main reason we are here is that there are certain flaws with the damage model, both in terms of position tracking and sensitivity. In the past few years we wanted to go with a somewhat lenient model, knowing that there is lag involved, and that we could apply penalties afterwards.

Quote from John Eric in another discussion we recently had, not meaning anything with this though. Just answering the question wether it was a mod problem or rF problem that you questioned thats all.

But tbh it doesnt matter much anyway, drivers should get some more respect for eachothers as this is an ongoing discusion for years now with drivers that keep trying to overtake in impossible ways. And for those who dont agree with decicions made can take the official route.

 

[Rasmus Tali]

In my opinion both of the incidents were caused by not leaving no room for me.
I was furious after race also because you blocked me in q1 on breaking line while you were on an out-lap and then in race leaving no room and damaging my car (probably yours too).

"Dive bomb into T3" I was fighting with Baldi as you can see and it had nothing to do with overtaking you.

Please use your mirrors in Q and in races next time.

 

[Mikko Puumalainen]

Appeal #1 (Incident #1 - Lapchin vs. Tali)

The appeal from ATR Management argues that the incident between Rasmus Tali and Yannick Lapchin i Turn 1 Lap 1 should be judged as a racing incident. The COA finds the driving of Lapchin against the rules in that he did not leave enough room for Tali to run cleanly alongside on the entry, hence the contact took place. While the COA feels that what Lapchin did was wrong, the contact was of such small magnitude, including no obvious damage, that an official warning for Lapchin is sufficient in this case. The slight contact at the exit of T2 falls under the same arguments.

Appeal Result: 0.5 penalty points converted to official warning for Yannick Lapchin

Note: While Lapchin's 0.5 penalty points were converted in to an Official Warning, this is Lapchin's 2nd Official Warning and will still count as 0.5 penalty points.

Appeal #2 (Incident #4 - Tali vs Lapchin)

In the second incident between Tali and Lapchin on lap 3, the contact is of a higher extent. In this case, the COA finds Tali the main responsible for the incident. The braking of Tali was found overoptimistic considering the distance behind at which he stood before the braking point. Due to above and the moderate contact resulted, 0.5 penalty points for Tali is in our view completely justified. The COA also wants to point out that Lapchin is partly responsible for this incident too, as he had the time to observe Tali's late overtaking attempt and perform evasive action. The penalty of Lapchin goes under the same official warning as he received from appeal #1 decision.

Appeal Result: Penalty stands for Rasmus Tali