Race #01, Bahrain: Post-Race Checks

[Martin Hodás]

Yeah and as much as I dislike Vettel I thought that penalty was a bit harsh

He destroyed Buttons race, as Patrick did to Jack. This decisions are 50:50, depends on who judge it.
Anyway, they maybe wanted to say in different words, that we are responsible for our cars, as when we make illegal move, also as when we make a mistake too.

 

[Marcel van der Linden]

No no no Martin sorry.

When i am overtaking u, and i loose my car and i hit u.
Then im wrong.

When u are driving in front of me. U spin (and for ever reason) and i run into u. Its my fault. Im the one that is driving behind u. I get the penalty.

The one overtaking is responsible for the manouvre. Not otherway around.

 

[Martin Hodás]

Ok, but as you said - overtaking. This wasnt overtaking situation

 

[Eduard Mallorquí]

First of all, I'm quite disappointed with the receiving of this post race checks, it was the same with Mikko and seems we are going to the same road again. Anyway, regarding incident #12 I'm going to explain myself a bit more since seems people doesn't properly read the review and they just go straight for the video.

As you can see Incident #8 De Wit created a pretty similar situation but under different circumstances since he was being overtaken, he had to go offline and when he tried to get the speed back he had a half spin which ended with a contact. The verdict of this incident is a Racing Incident since I consider this was a mistake and everyone can make mistakes.

I consider there is a significant difference with Incident #12, this is the fact that De Wit was driving with very used tires with 5 laps to go. I believe everyone who tested the mod at Bahrain knows that driving 26 laps with medium tires means that you are going to struggle a lot at the end of the stint, for example you can read Morand’s comment after the race that he was very proud of managing 24 laps with the same set of tires. The difference is that Morand was alone and he could handle his tires properly to make them last longer and De Wit was battling, locking up and having half spins.

My point is, you can try your luck with the tires, of course, if this incident happened in the last or penultimate lap there wouldn’t be a penalty, but with 5 laps to go no one can manage to drive those tires unless they are cheating. De Wit should have realised that with the way he was taking care of his the tires it was impossible to finish the race at all, so he should have given up the battle and pit for a new set of tires.

I admire the way De Wit always wants to go for a challenge but this time he damaged a driver’s race and I consider it was his fault due to the reasons given above.

Once I decided that De Wit was guilty of this situation I decide the amount of penalty points are given though the excel I linked in the same post race checks.

As you can check by yourself I gave 1.00 Penalty Points for Incident #5 where Leppala makes Martin spin and he loses about 10 seconds returning to the track. Since in Incident #12 De Wit makes Keithley spin and he loses about 10 seconds returning to the track I assign 1.00 Penalty Points as verdict.

Finally, I just want to state that I’m aware this is just a hobby but I’m pretty sure Keithley didn’t have fun with this battle (they protested it) and so I think we need to take care that everyone has the chance of fair and clean racing.

 

[Christian Smirnoff]

On behalf of the Faster Than Speed team, this will be our final statement on the matter. In the best interests of the league's image, I have asked my team members to refrain from posting further comments on the verdicts regarding our driver Patrick De Wit.

We strongly disagree with the verdicts by the WC Race Director and are extremely concerned about the harm these situations may cause to the future of FSR. However, we prefer to deal with the situation through the formal channels. We will carefully examine each case before referring the ones we consider appropriate to the Court of Appeal.

I would like to add that we fully respect the role of the WC Race Director. While the current Director is new and obviously inexperienced at FSR's top-level, the role of WC Race Director is one of the highest responsibilities and most time-demanding jobs in the ISR Club.

Going forward, we have absolutely no plans for Patrick De Wit to acquire a new licence or replace him for another driver.

Finally, I would like to add a statement about the protest we received from a rival team on our drivers lineup: Other than a relation of friendship, we have absolutely no affiliation to the Crown7NetRex and Eventa Simracing teams. We do not have and do not intend to have a sister team.

 

[David Dominguez]

Just to point out something, the race director is not new. He was already race director last year in the World Trophy.

And has created a solid and reasonable table of penalties, with a new safety rating system (which was really needed, imo).

And does the track loading screens.

And does Youtube video thumbnails.

And does/has done league official videos (season intros).

And does website work (website&gpcos&facebook banners, backgrounds, pictures for articles, etc).

And has done a broadcast UI only for FSR, being the first league who has some decent layouts for the broadcasts in rF2.

And has released a game interface that has given some extra exposure to the league.

And helps with track editing.

And gives ideas to others in order to improve the league in many ways.

And does other things that probably I forgot to type here, because my memory sucks.

So, while I also disagree with De Wit's penalty (the one with Keithley), think a bit before what really causes harm to FSR. Because we lost Dennis, we lost Simon, we lost Mikko. People who did an insane amount of work for the league. Like Edu does. Losing that kind of people really harms FSR, much more than any single penalty. So let's not make a big drama, even less for a WC penalty, as there is the possibility to appeal the decisions.

My 2 cents.

 

[Jackson Wendt]

Just to point out something, the race director is not new. He was already race director last year in the World Trophy.

I would just like to point something out David with all due respect.

While the current Director is new and obviously inexperienced at FSR's top-level, the role of WC Race Director is one of the highest responsibilities and most time-demanding jobs in the ISR Club.

Christian never said anything about Eduard being inexperienced in FSR in general. I think you would have to be stupid to overlook Eduard's contributions to the league and the Sim Racing community, but he hasn't been WC race director.

 

[Javier Alvarez]

The work of the President, the Admins, and the Race Directors is far from easy. We have lost very good people in this league just for ignoring this. This year, I feel the league is giving an step forward with the new President and Vicepresident, the people commited with press, broadcasts, new Race Directors, new simulator, new software for broadcasts and live timing, new rules and race formats... It's an impressive start with a lot of work behind . Let's support this group of people making this possible.

In 2013, We received several penalties and I still think Mikko did a very good (very difficult) work. After the incidents, we apologized for our mistakes and we tried to learn the lesson. Nobody thinks we did the correct thing?

Drivers and people with no access to the internal forum, have in this post the opportunity of discussing their point of view. This is a democratic league, and opinions are welcome.

We can agree or disagree with some decisions, but as WC team owners and ISR Club members I feel we have an additional responsibility. Team Owners and ISR Club Members have our own internal forum for discussing some issues, and the CoA for a second revision of the incidents.

I think in responsibilities before making quickly judges here: As an example, this is the reason why I don't reply in detail to the Carlos Martin post here, or why I am not giving my personal opinion on incidents involving PSR drivers, although I would like to protect to my drivers.

 

[EnyNX]

I think in responsibilities before making quickly judges here: As an example, this is the reason why I don't reply in detail to the Carlos Martin post here.

I think in responsibilities and that's why I will not reply you, Javier.
(so maybe you understand how silly and contradictory your post was)

 

[EnyNX]

Just to be more clear: "I'm good so I don't reply to that guy". That's more than a reply. When I want not to reply I simply ignore it, like I did with your protest. Would be different if I would come on forum and say: "I'm responsible, I will not comment Pos simracing protest".

 

[Javier Alvarez]

I think in responsibilities and that's why I will not reply you, Javier.
(so maybe you understand how silly and contradictory your post was)

That's the problem Ernesto: you replied and judged my post... Did you read the internal forum?

 

[EnyNX]

That's the problem Ernesto: you replied and judged my post... Did you read the internal forum?

That's the problem Javier: did you read my post for real?
Anyway, as I said, I'm not going further into this, prefer to enjoy the fun, hoping we all still remember it's all about that.

 

[Javier Alvarez]

That's the problem Javier: did you read my post for real?
Anyway, as I said, I'm not going further into this, prefer to enjoy the fun, hoping we all still remember it's all about that.

I am really enjoying this .

BTW, did you know there is a PM tool in the forum for private converstions

Note: with PM I don't mean Precission Motorsports... but Private Message.

No problem Ernesto. I did not want to bother you. Sorry.

 

[Rob van Starkenburg]

Just to point out something, the race director is not new. He was already race director last year in the World Trophy.

And has created a solid and reasonable table of penalties, with a new safety rating system (which was really needed, imo).

And does the track loading screens.

And does Youtube video thumbnails.

And does/has done league official videos (season intros).

And does website work (website&gpcos&facebook banners, backgrounds, pictures for articles, etc).

And has done a broadcast UI only for FSR, being the first league who has some decent layouts for the broadcasts in rF2.

And has released a game interface that has given some extra exposure to the league.

And helps with track editing.

And gives ideas to others in order to improve the league in many ways.

And does other things that probably I forgot to type here, because my memory sucks.

So, while I also disagree with De Wit's penalty (the one with Keithley), think a bit before what really causes harm to FSR. Because we lost Dennis, we lost Simon, we lost Mikko. People who did an insane amount of work for the league. Like Edu does. Losing that kind of people really harms FSR, much more than any single penalty. So let's not make a big drama, even less for a WC penalty, as there is the possibility to appeal the decisions.

My 2 cents.

Amen!

 

[Adrian Rodriguez]

In my opinion, it is a shame for both drivers, but if anyone did a fault was De Wit. Let's say someone is running without rear wing on the last lap, and is considered legal. He is responsible for his car, and clearly hasn’t rear downforce, so if he spun in a curve and one car behind hits him, Is it the fault of the car behind by not being careful? not IMO. The car behind can suppose the problems of car in front, but he’s not responsible of this car. Same here, no one said it De Wit’s strategy was illegal (and Director no punish for it), but De Wit is knowledgeable and responsible for your car. If you have no grip to stay on track (as we saw), get away of track (or optimal lane)for not to cause a possible accident, and if you want continue driving like if you have “normal conditions”, is at your own risk. If nothing happens great, good job, but if there is an incident, it is your fault, because you knew the lack of grip of your car, and you can’t continue driving like if your car has perfect conditions o almost perfect. So it's something that a responsible driver should consider for their benefit and for not to harm others.

In any case, I agree that the total of the penalties may be too harsh and I don’t agree that De Wit is unlicensed in the first race. Punishment, yes, but a little softer.

 

[Eduard Mallorquí]

I can imagine the amount of work and appreciate what you are guys are doing.
If the director takes his work seriously that doesn't change the fact that it is funny to me or that I may question some decisions. I didn't complain, did I? If I'd have complained you would have noticed it for sure.

Just give me a go on this:

Review: Heading into T11 Sentell is overtaking Rodriguez through the use of DRS, but as Rodriguez is on the racing line and the fact that Sentell has a tighter entry into the corner......



....Rodriguez maintained his position around the outside.



....Rodriguez maintained his position around the outside.



Both parties could avoid the collision with Rodriguez leaving slightly more room on the inside and Sentell not going as deep into the corner.


Just to be clear I am not questioning the result (racing incident) of this incident nor am I taking favor here for anybody. I am not a member of any of those teams. It's just funny as I said.

You are judging the incident seeing a youtube video which is good but I believe that is not good enough to judge the situation.

I encorage you to download the replay and check it by yourself but if you look closely, just before the contact happens you can notice how Sentell is slighlty opening his trajectory due to his tight entry to the corner and also Rodriguez closed the door too much. The contact was so light that if both parties just gave a little bit more of space nothing would have happen.

Maybe this image helps to understand what I'm trying to explain.

 

[Miroslav Davidovic]

Yes man, this explanation makes more sense than the original review.

Still, I guess one could argue forever in this case. But TBH at the end it's none of my business and arguing or having a different opinion about an incident isn't a novelty. So I'll just leave it here.

 

[Johannes Kunkel]

David says it all, what actually hurts FSR is the bickering about 0.5 or 1.0 penalty points for an incident. It drives the people away that run this place, and it has driven many away that did so much work, but at some point you just feel to be the hunted of those that like to complain about penalties when they seem to harsh to them. In many cases taking these things outside of FSR as well, attacking people personally and so on.

I know everyone says they respect the work these people do, because they know too damn well they don´t wanna do it themself and be in such a situation. But to use your next sentence to explain that whoever made that decision obviously still lacks the knowledge/commen sense/experience to do it correctly (doing it the way you want it, there is never an ultimate truth) is more then a slap in the face to those people that put all this work in it.

Sometimes people should actually think what really is important for FSR, and who causes the damage before making big speeches.

 

[Ryan Winsper]

David says it all, what actually hurts FSR is the bickering about 0.5 or 1.0 penalty points for an incident. It drives the people away that run this place, and it has driven many away that did so much work, but at some point you just feel to be the hunted of those that like to complain about penalties when they seem to harsh to them. In many cases taking these things outside of FSR as well, attacking people personally and so on.

I know everyone says they respect the work these people do, because they know too damn well they don´t wanna do it themself and be in such a situation. But to use your next sentence to explain that whoever made that decision obviously still lacks the knowledge/commen sense/experience to do it correctly (doing it the way you want it, there is never an ultimate truth) is more then a slap in the face to those people that put all this work in it.

Sometimes people should actually think what really is important for FSR, and who causes the damage before making big speeches.

I get that it's the bickering about the penalty points etc. that hurts FSR, but when that extra 1.0 penalty point revokes a 50euro license it is worth bickering about, especially when that 1.0 PP should have been only a MAX of 0.5, or in my honest opinion just a race incident.

I don't believe the De Wit was at fault for this incident at all, I just believe it was a racing incident, yes, he had worn tires, but Jack knew this or at least should have known this.
And then losing the back end in a corner which other drivers surely suffer in with tires that are degraded so much, like De Wits were, every lap I would have approached that corner with caution if it were me chasing De Wit and then got him in the DRS zone or at the next braking point considering De Wits tires. I'm pretty sure De Wit came off a lot worse in this incident after being hit in the rear and rolling several times.

In all honesty, if I was Jack or even his team manager, I would never have protested against De Wit for this incident, I didn't even protest for turn 1 carnage in the PRO series because I thought it was a racing incident.

As much as I respect all of the efforts by everyone helping FSR out, I just can't understand why anybody would think this is worthy of 1 penalty point.

But again, this is my opinion and I believe it was a racing incident.

Much respect to everyone who helps out Formula Sim Racing and keeping it the best F1 League around!

 

[David Dominguez]

I would just like to point something out David with all due respect.

Christian never said anything about Eduard being inexperienced in FSR in general. I think you would have to be stupid to overlook Eduard's contributions to the league and the Sim Racing community, but he hasn't been WC race director.

The only difference between being WT race director and WC race director is that the first one doesn't need to deal with the storms of **** after the post race checks threads.

Racing is racing, and incidents should be judged with the same approach, if they happen in Pro, Ace or WC shouldn't matter.