Question: Is Formula One Boring?

[Spinelli]

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[Spinelli]

Any links to back up all of these claims?

I found some basic info but nothing detailed. Around 2 or so years ago, the F1 regs were changed to make starts more driver involved but I personally always thought F1 didn't go far enough...It seems they agree with me as there are even further restrictions for all this race-start driver aid nonsense:

Along with making pull-type paddle-activated clutches mandatory for each driver, the clutch signals used by the standard ECU will also be heavily monitored by the FIA to limit any advantageous mapping.

Should a team wish to use two clutch paddles on the steering wheel, each paddle must now be identical in form, motion and mapping.

Drivers may be asked to demonstrate that both paddles work identically.

Furthermore, the paddle must work linearly with the clutch - meaning that the drivers' actions must be wholly representative of the engagement of the clutch.

Article 9.2.1, section F in the technical regulations states that: "To ensure that the signals used by the FIA ECU are representative of the driver's actions, each competitor is required to demonstrate that the paddle percentage calculated by the ECU does not deviate by more than +/-5% from the physical position of the operating device measured as a percentage over its entire usable range."

This ensures greater responsibility is placed on the driver at the race start and means that there is the potential for greater variation off the line.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143098/f1-clutch-rules-changed-to-put-emphasis-on-drivers

I'm pretty sure those systems aren't there for the driver, but for power delivery and energy recovery of the hybrid systems. The braking ones especially since you can't use the front end to recover energy. These weren't on the cars until the introduction of the hybrid systems.

That's incorrect. Sure, they've become legal and/or possible due to (lame) brake-by-wire instead of true foot-to-brake connection as well as all the hybrid stuff but it's still done to make the driving easier for the driver - a driving aid to achieve more consistent and higher performance.

The "auto-dynamic front-to-rear brake balance adjustment" I mentioned previously, well, Mercedes calls it "brake migration." The following is directly from Mercedes' F1 website:

"...This tendency can be counteracted to some extent by a clever braking system which would ask less of the rear brakes on turn in (to stabilize the car) and then ask progressively more of the rear brakes (compared to the front) as the apex approaches. This clever process is called Brake Migration - a dynamic change of the brake balance as a function of the brake pressure.

It is this cleverness that the Brake By Wire system provides. Guided by the rotary switch settings that the driver has made on their steering wheel, the BBW system juggles the braking input of the three main actuators (the callipers, the engine and the MGU-K) to provide the driver with a smooth, predictable shape to the rear braking action that allows him to keep the car at limit of adhesion (without any anti-lock brakes) while steering the car through the braking phase of the corner."
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/me...-article/formula-one-brake-systems-explained/

"...F1 cars use this kind of weight transfer to their advantage and shift the brake bias towards the front of the car when the drivers first hit the brakes. When they then slowly come off the brakes to prevent locking up, the weight transfer to the front is reduced. At that point, the brake power is migrated rearwards - by how much depends on the track and the type of corner.

"Drivers can adjust the brake migration on a corner-by-corner basis through a rotary switch on their steering wheel. Just before the turning point you could move the brake bias almost entirely to the rear to give the car a bit of oversteer, allowing it to turn more quickly - similar to the effect of pulling the hand brake in a road car."
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/me...-article/insight-hitting-the-brakes-in-monza/


And the other braking aid I mentioned with regards to keeping stability when downshifting during braking is here:

"Another benefit of the system is that the engineers can compensate for how the power unit behaves under braking and downshifting. Every time the driver opens the clutch, he loses the engine braking. In the pre-hybrid era, that would mean that there were sudden shifts in brake balance and brake power every time the clutch would open and close.

"Today, the cars can counteract that with a little spike of brake pressure every time the car loses the engine braking. This means that the rear brake torque is more continuous, allowing the driver to operate closer to the peak of the tyre slip."
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/me...-article/insight-hitting-the-brakes-in-monza/


Have I addressed my "claims" to you guys yet? I don't make crap up

 

[Spinelli]

Haha Nick Gregory, now you're just disagreeing to spite me. I literally posted directly from Mercedes' F1 website and they even themselves state how these make the drivers' driving easier but you still continue to mark my posts as "disagree."

Talk about not being able to handle being wrong. Grow up, pal

(waiting for you to add a "disagree" to this post, lol!)

 

[Nick Gregory]

I disagree because you act like it's "easy" to drive an F1 car, on top of managing all these sytems, especially since you think is what the isssue is with F1, and not the many, many, many other issues that have greater effects. But I guess that's what I get when I go into a thread about F1, where the toxic nature of "fans" really is what ruins the whole experience for me.

 

[Spinelli]

I disagree because you act like it's "easy" to drive an F1 car, on top of managing all these sytems, especially since you think is what the isssue is with F1, and not the many, many, many other issues that have greater effects. But I guess that's what I get when I go into a thread about F1, where the toxic nature of "fans" really is what ruins the whole experience for me.

The point of the discussion is things to improve F1 and I was talking about driver aids. Those are driver aids. They are automatic systems to make the driving easIER. To make it easier for drivers to reach their max potential or even a higher potential. To also make it easier to be more consistent. I never said driving F1 cars are easy - no race cars are - but, yes, driving F1 cars is a lot easier now compared to decades past due to so many systems helping the drivers. Even Mercedes basically says it in those posts. Even some of the rules are being changed because driver skill needs to play more of a part.

Look at rookie drivers, on their first day or 2 they're within a half second or second of the top driver in their team. Go look at old F1; a rookie on his first day ever in an F1 car would be 1.5, 2, 3 seconds off the pace back then. Also look at how consistent laptimes are, how consistent general driving is. Before, there was much more variation from lap to lap, session to session, race to race because the cars were so much more difficult to drive to the absolute limits and a lot less consistent and well-mannered.

Go watch the first few opening laps onboard Michael Schumacher at the 1998 (I think) Argentian Grand Prix. Look at how the car is moving around at entry, mid-corner, exit. Look at how he applies all sorts of corrections. Look at how he has to modulate the throttle to prevent too much wheelspin and slowing down. Also look at how he sometimes does add a bunch of aggressive throttle, wheelspin, and plays with nice powerslides to help turn the car on exit. The driving is wayyy more alive, way more dynamic. Seriously, check out that video. It's awesome to watch if not just for the sheer pleasure.

 

[paracletus]

Its just that quite a bit of googling these things comes up with blank.
Not even f1 technical goes into these from what I've seen - not convinced these cars are "easy" to drive by any stretch.

 

[LeSunTzu]

So Paul, how do you and the other 70.3% feel about F1 today?

 

[TomcatMF]

The Bottom line is V6 Hybrid is the way the road market is going even Ferrari and Jaguar road cars are doing it. The V8 is not relevant to modern road cars as we go to more environmentally conscious was of powering cars. Like electricity or even Hidrogen. The car makers want technology that can be moved from the F1 car into the road car. F1 is a breeding ground to test ideas and later moue into road market.

My point about the V6 Hybrids is about how they went about implementing them into the sport. It was a totally new direction and technology. They tried to lock it down like they did with the V-8's when they should have opened it up completely. This would have allowed convergence between the manufacturers to happen much faster than it did.

 

[Sasha Jednak]

So Paul, how do you and the other 70.3% feel about F1 today?

I don't know about Paul, but my 0.084% feels the same as before.

 

[Nativ95]

Is just an personal opinion but in real life i did drived an f1 car (was an event and 5 random 18+ with driver license people were able to drive one f1 car) and is incredible... I was going over 300 in straight lane.. they telled me when to brake from boxes cause at that speed is hard to mesure the distance and because i think they don't wanted me to crash the car... =]] was incredbile... The adrenaline was something u can t get only if you jump with a parachute for the first time ( i know this feeling too) but at tv or anywhere you can watch an f1 race... is boring.. cause is everything about strategy.. is more like an sah match than a race, is not like Rally where is crazyness at another level.

 

[Danny kung]

Yeah man I could watch rally all day but F1, not for me anymore

 

[Appie Kuipers]

If drs and that stupid tire thing are removed if will be less boring.

 

[Antony Snook]

I am still a fan of F1 an have been since 1990. There can be events that are dull and one sided but that can be said for any sport. Usually there are 2 teams and in F1 you have 10. That is 2 drivers per team, so 20 people to cheer for. So its very hard to please everyone.
Yes AMG-Mercedes and Scuderia-Ferrari plus Red Bull-Honda are top teams with money and all the talent in drivers or key personnel to generate the best possible team. Whitch will dominate.

The bottom line is F1 is not as bad as Football (UK) or Hockey and even Baseball which i find very dull and slow. Though most people i know watch that stuff all the time. so i would rather watch a dull Grandprix than watch the other garbage on TV (See above)

 

[Zuffenhausen Weiss]

...and even Baseball which i find very dull and slow

The only time when baseball wasn't dull

 

[Jim Layee]

If you the public can accept DRS then they get the rubbish they deserve