PT Actuator Motion Platform

[Deleted member 1745118]

I replied to a post with my thoughts regarding the PT Actuator motion platform, but thought it would also be good to create a new post.

I would caution anyone considering purchasing a PT Actuator motion platform. I purchased a "Platform 4 Actuators + TL + Surge" motion platform from PT Actuator in December 2020 and mounted a JCL V2 cockpit on it. I had very few hours on the system when I started getting very loud squeaking noises from at least 2 of the Scorpion actuators. Shao recommended that I take the actuator apart and apply grease to the rubber dirt seal. This solution, if you can even get the actuator apart, is only a temporary fix. If you watch the video that Barry Rowland (great job Barry!) made on the Scorpion actuator, you will see just how hard it is to take these things apart. I asked Shao more than once to supply me with the procedure to properly grease the seal, but received no reply. The warranty procedure is to return the actuator to PT Actuator for repair. After some major coaxing, I did manage to get Shao to send me 2 replacement actuator bodies. I replaced the actuator body on the worst actuator and most of the noise is now gone. I still need to replace the 2nd noisy actuator body. After replacing the 1st actuator body, I sent Shao 2 emails asking for instructions on how to repair the actuators myself, but again received no reply. Until PT Actuator finds a permanent solution to this problem, the noisy dirt seal will apparently be an ongoing issue, so I want to be able to repair the actuator myself. I find dealing with PT Actuator very frustrating. Also, anything sent to the USA from China goes through a very slow customs procedure requiring documentation from both the seller and buyer, again very frustrating. On the positive side, I really do like the overall PT Actuator design, but the loud noise created by the squeaky dirt seal makes it very hard to enjoy the experience.

 

[Michael Roitman]

Well did you return the "defective" actuator at least?
Because maybe that's why he hasn't sent a 2nd actuator, since you haven't sent them back yet? Is that possibly why?

 

[Deleted member 1745118]

He sent me two actuators. I replaced one and emailed him with my questions, twice. I still need to replace the 2nd actuator. I am in no rush to send the two defective actuators back because he has yet to respond to my questions. If someone has a solution to the noise issue I would like to hear it.

 

[Michael Roitman]

He sent me two actuators. I replaced one and emailed him with my questions, twice. I still need to replace the 2nd actuator. I am in no rush to send the two defective actuators back because he has yet to respond to my questions. If someone has a solution to the noise issue I would like to hear it.

that makes no sense. You didnt return the other 2 actuators because he’s not responding? you got 2 replacement actuators and you’re trying to keep the “defective“ ones?

 

[Deleted member 1745118]

I did not state that I was trying to keep the defective actuators. I just want a reply to my questions, and I want a permanent solution to this problem. I figure that sooner or later I will get some kind of reply, even if it is just to ask why I have not sent the defective actuators back yet. PT Actuator support is terrible and I have stated this to both Shao and Echo. This is not the first issue I have had with PT Actuator support.

 

[Michael Roitman]

I live in NY, USA and had my difficulties reaching shao because of the time difference, but he always responded.
I also have a PT-Actuators 4+TL platform and in 2 years I still havent needed to grease them because they have a ton of grease inside that should keep you from needing to do that for a few years at least.

By you holding back from sending back the "defective" actuators, they're probably taking it as if you're trying to get over on them.

If you had a defective dirt seal on an actuator, what does that have to do with the instructions on how to grease the actuator?

You should send back the defective actuators because it seems like you're trying to get over on them. It seems pretty clear that they sent you the replacement actuators under their warranty and your noise is disappearing, so the issue is gone. By you giving them excuses for not sending it back to them, it just seems like you're trying to get over.

 

[Deleted member 1745118]

You sure have a wild imagination.

 

[Michael Roitman]

You sure have a wild imagination.

I mean it's pretty clear from what you're saying. You're saying you dont want to return the defective actuators that made noise even though he sent you a brand new replacement and the noise is gone, but instead you want to hold on to the actuator and are in "no rush" to send it back. Your reasoning is that you want him to respond telling you how to properly grease them and that by holding on to the "defective" actuators, he will eventually message you at least asking about the return of them.

I wish I could do that with Oculus Rift, my Nvidia 3090, my Samsung TV, and a whole bunch of other stuff that i've had to replace. Don't send back the defective part until you get a response - good reasoning to keep your old actuator.

They clearly replaced your actuator, which fixed the issue - send the man back the defective actuator. Simple. I have a feeling they're not responding to you BECAUSE you're trying to keep the old actuators... At least if I was in his shoes, that's definitely what it looks like. How do you expect to get further support when you're just trying to get stuff for free?

 

[Deleted member 1745118]

I stated more than once that I have no intention of keeping the actuators and will return them at some point. I have not replaced the 2nd defective actuator yet so I cannot return it. I was hoping to learn how to repair the actuator myself using instructions from Shao, but he has ignored my request for instructions. The repairs are free (not including shipping cost) while the system is under warranty, but what about after warranty? According to Shao, this is a known issue that may never have a permanent solution, so I would think that anyone owning these actuators would be concerned about this issue and would want the same information. The text of the last email that I sent to Shao is below.

"I finally received the replacement actuators today. I replaced the actuator that I was 100% sure was bad, and that actuator is now much quieter. I still need to replace one more actuator that I can now confirm is making noise, but not as bad as the one I replaced. I can't be sure about the other 2 actuators until I replace this actuator. Do you have a permanent solution for this problem yet?

It takes 2 weeks for anything you ship to arrive at my home. Because of this, I want to be able to repair the actuators myself if possible. Is there only one dust ring or two? I can only see one dust ring and it is located at the foot end of the actuator. Is it possible for me to remove the dust ring from that end and grease it without having to disassemble the entire actuator as Barry shows in his video? What procedure should I follow to repair the actuator myself? What tools do I need?"

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

The dust ring was defective from its manufacturer (tight tolerances). Greasing them more won't fix the issue, thus why he sent you complete new actuators.

There is nothing for you to repair in this case...

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

And before keep going complaining about PT noise listen to this:

 

[Michael Roitman]

I stated more than once that I have no intention of keeping the actuators and will return them at some point. I have not replaced the 2nd defective actuator yet so I cannot return it. I was hoping to learn how to repair the actuator myself using instructions from Shao, but he has ignored my request for instructions. The repairs are free (not including shipping cost) while the system is under warranty, but what about after warranty? According to Shao, this is a known issue that may never have a permanent solution, so I would think that anyone owning these actuators would be concerned about this issue and would want the same information. The text of the last email that I sent to Shao is below.

"I finally received the replacement actuators today. I replaced the actuator that I was 100% sure was bad, and that actuator is now much quieter. I still need to replace one more actuator that I can now confirm is making noise, but not as bad as the one I replaced. I can't be sure about the other 2 actuators until I replace this actuator. Do you have a permanent solution for this problem yet?

It takes 2 weeks for anything you ship to arrive at my home. Because of this, I want to be able to repair the actuators myself if possible. Is there only one dust ring or two? I can only see one dust ring and it is located at the foot end of the actuator. Is it possible for me to remove the dust ring from that end and grease it without having to disassemble the entire actuator as Barry shows in his video? What procedure should I follow to repair the actuator myself? What tools do I need?"

Does Apple make videos and tutorials on how to open up and repair their iphones? No - you contact the manufacturer or seller, and ask them to repair it for you for a fee after the warranty is up. If you want to open the actuators yourself, at that point it's on you. He is not required to give you instructions on greasing or repairing them.

 

[Deleted member 1745118]

Shao actually told me to grease the actuators when I first reported the problem. He also suggested that I take the ring out and reverse it, and that is when I first asked him how to properly take it apart. The bolts have Loctite on them and I have not been able to remove all of them from the bad actuator that I swapped out, even when following Barry's video directions. I actually snapped a hex wrench attempting to remove one of the bolts, and that is when I gave up.

 

[Deleted member 1745118]

Does Apple make videos and tutorials on how to open up and repair their iphones? No - you contact the manufacturer or seller, and ask them to repair it for you for a fee after the warranty is up. If you want to open the actuators yourself, at that point it's on you. He is not required to give you instructions on greasing or repairing them.

You should expect directions if you are requested to take it apart, as I was. I sent Shao an email with a MP3 audio file of the loud noise and his reply is below. I also spoke with him and he suggested reversing the seal. I had to push hard to get replacement actuators.

"I play your mp3 audio file by my loud speaker, this sound is so crazy, but, i assume, it's not so big loud during the simulation process at real site.

You are right , this sound coming from the dust-proof O ring, you can dis-assemble it , if you don't like it.

And this thing only happens when the actuator working in a very limited stroke

Or, you can take some cook oil or even some grease to paint onto the surface, then it will be dis-appear."

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

What part of his message you didn't understand? He clearly said you can completely remove the dust ring if you don't like how it sounds...

Instead he choose to send you whole new actuators set.... So you won't feel bad having an actuator exposed to dust...

In meantime the dust ring we talk about is not more than $4 part!!!

[USD 4.25] Hydraulic cylinder oil seal daquan DHS type 50*58 * 5 65 piston rod with dust ring seal ring parts ring sleeve - Wholesale from China online shopping | Buy asian products online from the best shoping agent - ChinaHao.com

buy Hydraulic cylinder oil seal daquan DHS type 50*58 * 5 65 piston rod with dust ring seal ring parts ring sleeve at taobao agent Seals

www.chinahao.com

 

[Deleted member 1745118]

Which part don't you understand? How do you remove the dust ring without destroying the actuator? There must be a standard procedure for this. These things don't just pop off. Also, Shao did not initially offer to send me replacement actuators, he only sent me the actuators after I insisted that he do so. You guys are missing, or ignoring, the entire point of my original post. My caution is valid as are my statements. I have been frustrated with PT Actuator since receiving the kit. I was missing several bolts that were never sent even after several weeks of repeated request. I ended up purchasing them on my own. One of the profiles was missing tapped holes. It took several emails to finally get them to respond with a solution, they sent me a tap. I did not automatically receive the SRS license and ended up purchasing my own. I did not receive a response to my request for a license until several weeks after asking for one because they were shut down for the holidays. If you find this type of support acceptable then your expectations are much lower than mine.

 

[Deleted member 1745118]

What part of his message you didn't understand? He clearly said you can completely remove the dust ring if you don't like how it sounds...

Instead he choose to send you whole new actuators set.... So you won't feel bad having an actuator exposed to dust...

In meantime the dust ring we talk about is not more than $4 part!!!

[USD 4.25] Hydraulic cylinder oil seal daquan DHS type 50*58 * 5 65 piston rod with dust ring seal ring parts ring sleeve - Wholesale from China online shopping | Buy asian products online from the best shoping agent - ChinaHao.com

buy Hydraulic cylinder oil seal daquan DHS type 50*58 * 5 65 piston rod with dust ring seal ring parts ring sleeve at taobao agent Seals

www.chinahao.com

Thanks for the link, I could not get this information from Shao, even though I asked for it. Now if I can just figure how to remove and replace the ring.

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

But NONE of these issues is involving the actuators themselves making creaking noises. Creaking noise means something catastrophically happened to the leadscrew for example which is not the case at all. And as you detailed, service exceeded anyone's expectations for a motion system that has same performance and systems 4 times more expensive in the market, even offering IN ADVANCE replacement of actuators before you send back the defective ones. NO company ever did this.

Have you ever been through RMA procedure for a piece of tech you would know.

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

Thanks for the link, I could not get this information from Shao, even though I asked for it. Now if I can just figure how to remove and replace the ring.

Why replace the ring? You have two new actuators don't you? Pop them on your rig and enjoy them!

 

[markie44]

From what I'm reading in this thread see someone who has paid a lot of money for a sophisticated system frustrated by what has been shown to be a minor manufacturing defect caused by a cheap non-critical part.

They have contacted the manufacturer who suggested a fix and after persuasion sent 2 x advance replacement assemblies on trust but not supplied instructions. As a result the customer is trying to leverage better customer support by holding one remaining part to ransom in lieu of a instructions for a repair that they have already successfully carried out on the other unit.

Would that be an accurate description of the situation?

As someone who has a PT-system and received very satisfactory support and after-sales, I may be biased, but it looks like they have handled your situation as well as can be expected. For one, the difficulty in supporting a complicated system remotely in what is effectively a DIY-capacity is not to be under-estimated. When you buy direct from a manufacturer in another country without local support this is one of the risks you take. How much would you be prepared if that 'premium' service was offered. 50% more? Double? Because for a small niche manufacturer its likely thats what the additional cost would be once passed on to the end user.

I work in a customer facing role, and I can tell you now the people myself and my colleagues go out of my way to help are not those who are angry and demanding. I understand your disappointment, but as someone with the privilege to enjoy spending these sums on toys you might do well to adopt a glass half-full approach.

Now replace that actuator body and enjoy your amazing system you lucky boy!