PC1 Project Cars mostly hype? Your opinions

[Azfalt Raser]

This thing has been hyped so much.
I swore I wouldn't buy another car game unless i tried a demo first. But like all the other sheep, I followed and purchased it.

Thus far it's been a massive disappointment
Played in: 4800x900 resolution
No driver's aids
Logitech driving force GT
DTM car at Spa
Default force feedback settings

*Little to no steering feel.- I don't feel like I'm driving on ice though.
*Arcade style driving (extremely forgiving) on the hardest settings.
*cockpit sides are stretched oblong
*BEAUTIFUL GRAPHICS overall though.
*audio left alot to be desired.

Are either tracks accurate?
I compared DTM cars in R3E at Hockeheim & pCars at Hockenheim.
pCars seemed more difficult due to the shadows cast on the track, light reflections... so I had difficulty picking up some brake markers, but the track itself seemed easier to drive (less turning in corners), no tire squealing, basically turn the steering wheel according to the video on the screen - like an arcade game.

The cars were worlds apart.
R3E: you felt the weight transfer, heard the tires scrubbing then squealing as they lost grip, felt/heard the oversteer, the understeer.
pCars: I just hear alot of wind noise. or what sounds like wind noise.
Drive too fast? no problem in pCars just slam on the brakes mid-corner.
Drive too fast in R3E, slide off the track - tires squealing & screeching the whole way, then dig yourself out of the gravel.

Right now, my impression is that pCars is a better version of Grid Autosport.
Somewhere between Arcade and Sim - leaning more towards arcade.

Admittedly, I have optmized R3E and I was only in pCars for about half an hour and need to change fov, force feedback, and audio settings.

What's your impression of pCars to other games?

 

[Azfalt Raser]

I guess I like games that lean more towards sim, than arcade.
And pCars is the BEST ARCADE game EVER. Best video quality in any driving game.

Racing simulators try their best to emulate real world performance. In real life, if you slam on the brakes in the middle of a medium to high speed corner, you lose control. Same in R3E, iRacing, rFactor 2. None of the racing sims are perfect. Some are easier to learn than others. Within each game/simulator, some cars are crap and some are good. It's not isolated to just one game.

In pCars, I hear what sounds like wind noise (substituted for tire scrub?), but the car kept going where I was steering (it's not only in pCars though). I got the rear end to wiggle afew times. And I got the car to spin with too much throttle coming out of a slow corner. I passed my late braking marker by 50 meters and kept it on the track. In the other games (above), you would be digging yourself out of the gravel or guardrail. So pCars doesn't qualify as a racing simulator.

Steam doesn't allow the re-selling or trading games in your library so I'm stuck with other over hyped arcade games passing themselves off as sims. Steam, you taught me a valuable lesson. No demo. No purchase.

I have seen people playing a racing game and be fast - with no force feedback at all. Fantastic touch these people have that drive like that.
I have tried settings from fast drivers where I have to turn the wheel just as hard, turning into the corner and turning the wheel back to straighten the car out.
Does real life car steering wheels behave like that? (rhetorical)

People with real competition experience will prefer one game/sim over another - one ffb feel over another. Some people want good graphics, some want a great driving model. Some want a complete package or as close as they can get. Some of us just want to have fun.

It boils down to personal preference.

Personally, I feel like I went into a car dealership, the salesman showed me the top of the line model, I fell in love with the car.....only to find I could only afford the base model. Over hyped disappointment.
I'll keep experimenting with 'the base model' and once I fine tune the ffb, fov, audio, get used to the driving model, and I get my engineering degree by learning the ffb settings from all these various sims/games, my opinion may soften.

But I want to like pCars. I really do.

 

[Kobus Maree]

not just hype imo

I have had some great online races already. My favourite car is the FA.

It has some issues, such as the UI, and FFB where you need to tweak a few settings.

On the whole though, it delivers an exciting driving simulation.

 

[Azfalt Raser]

Iam a tester for both games and after tweaking my wheel setup I find both games very detailed and quit similar.
You should read some of the many wheel setup threads already going or msg bmanic for assistance....I assure you pcars feels nothing like grid autosport
Triple screen support is apparently in the works.

I think I was misquoted. I thought I said "a better version of grid autosport"? I'll have to look back and see. My favorite graphics are in grid autosport and pCars. I just didn't care for the ffb.
But thanks @ Kurupt. Appreciate your suggestion (and those who made suggestions) to try and help us pCars noobs.

I do not think R3E has the best driving model, but I guess I'm spoiled by the audio in R3E. Maybe due to the fact that the audio sometimes fills in the gaps where feel is lacking. Chirping/squealing/screeching of the tires rather than only the scrubbing sounds, under braking, turning, grip loss.... For instance, when I first got R3E, Steering effort would get too light when sliding the front tires. I didn't like that feeling. So I fine tuned it out by cranking up the ffb and wheel weight. I then used the audio to tell me when my front tires were sliding instead.

Also, if I better understood what causes "clipping" and what clipping is. It might help me to setup my ffb better. I read somewhere that a heavy wheel feel or strong ffb can cause clipping. that's for another forum search though.

As for triple screen support, that would be awesome. But, if I am looking ahead for the next corner, after a lap, I didn't notice the skewed video on either side of the car - since I am essentially looking at the center of 4 feet of monitor space.
thanks again.

 

[Azfalt Raser]

RRe has the worse physics and ffb I've every played in a current sim.. Pcars is on another level...
pcars is good ignore the elitists!!

C'mon - don't bash and run!
Are you comparing your real world competition experience to these games?
Or are you comparing your experience from games you are comfortable with to R3E?
What qualifies someone to be an elitist?
I am interested in your opinion regarding:
a) the physics since I only have 1000 or so laps in R3E and have limited experience with "sims" in general.
b) I don't want to be an elitist.

I agree that pCars IS on another level - video quality.
Just like R3E is the benchmark for audio quality.
Is there a sim (not arcade) that is generally accepted as the benchmark for physics? I want that!

 

[Brian C Hayes]

I guess I like games that lean more towards sim, than arcade.
And pCars is the BEST ARCADE game EVER. Best video quality in any driving game.

Racing simulators try their best to emulate real world performance. In real life, if you slam on the brakes in the middle of a medium to high speed corner, you lose control. Same in R3E, iRacing, rFactor 2. None of the racing sims are perfect. Some are easier to learn than others. Within each game/simulator, some cars are crap and some are good. It's not isolated to just one game.

In pCars, I hear what sounds like wind noise (substituted for tire scrub?), but the car kept going where I was steering (it's not only in pCars though). I got the rear end to wiggle afew times. And I got the car to spin with too much throttle coming out of a slow corner. I passed my late braking marker by 50 meters and kept it on the track. In the other games (above), you would be digging yourself out of the gravel or guardrail. So pCars doesn't qualify as a racing simulator.

Steam doesn't allow the re-selling or trading games in your library so I'm stuck with other over hyped arcade games passing themselves off as sims. Steam, you taught me a valuable lesson. No demo. No purchase.

I have seen people playing a racing game and be fast - with no force feedback at all. Fantastic touch these people have that drive like that.
I have tried settings from fast drivers where I have to turn the wheel just as hard, turning into the corner and turning the wheel back to straighten the car out.
Does real life car steering wheels behave like that? (rhetorical)

People with real competition experience will prefer one game/sim over another - one ffb feel over another. Some people want good graphics, some want a great driving model. Some want a complete package or as close as they can get. Some of us just want to have fun.

It boils down to personal preference.

Personally, I feel like I went into a car dealership, the salesman showed me the top of the line model, I fell in love with the car.....only to find I could only afford the base model. Over hyped disappointment.
I'll keep experimenting with 'the base model' and once I fine tune the ffb, fov, audio, get used to the driving model, and I get my engineering degree by learning the ffb settings from all these various sims/games, my opinion may soften.

But I want to like pCars. I really do.

Spot on ... I really want to love this game... I just bought it ... I love driving titles ... I own every other driving title out there including obscure russian driving sims ... it boils down to me ... this game has no identity .. its nether a sim nor a arcade game and simcades like intelligent Chelsea Fans dont exist..... I will stick with the career mode ... I really want to be proved wrong with this game ... I notice when you turn off the motion blur .. it looks 100% better on triple screens .... You would think they would have had every wheel under the sun at the development studio and on release date .. said .. here .. this is a great base for your wheel ... but no .. we are all left fummbling in the dark with a FFB system that would be very at home with a serious sim ... smack bang inside a need for speed arcade game ... all very confusing stuff ... one thing is for sure ... its Purty ... and the sense of scale is awesome ... if they could have AC's physics/ FFB and Pcars Graphics you would have the perfect game

 

[lionofjudah72]

Hey Guys

I just like to have great clean racing. #closeracing.
I like AC, R3E and pCars.
What I like about this game is the depth and fullness. But what stood out for me was the closnest of the lap times. In R3E I am in the top 20 most tracks but the problem is that from 1st to 20th is like 3-5 seconds difference. I am getting quite deep in my carrer in pCars, I started from Karts, let me say WOW they feel just like the real deal. But what I noticed is that top ten in the leaderboards are separated by less than a second and that for me is a recipe for close and fun online racing. I thought the AI was a bit slow at first, but going deeper into my career they are seeming to be quite close than the first few races I had. Set @ 100%, this could improve..

Please if your sceptical about the racing ablilty of this game, please take the 125cc kart and race around summerton kart circuit, if your FFB is setup correctly you experience every little bump on that track, its quite an eye opener to the actual realizem of the game.

I don't diss any of the top sims out there, but this one is not as bad as some say.

PS, patches and later bulids will still be realized so lets see how it evolves from a pretty good start.

Oh did I mention the deepth, WOW.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Spot on review, couldn't have said it better myself
mod-edit: also spot on reviews go here http://www.racedepartment.com/media/

 

[Jyri Kettunen]

Imo Pcars only has one great open wheeler and thats the Formula Rookie.

Lotus 72D is excellent too.

 

[Colin O Callaghan]

One of the best reviews I have seen for any game or simulation, well done. (I still bought it )

 

[Msportdan]

To clarify my FFB comment about RRE. I have experienced a msassive horrible centre force in that game which just makes it a bad experience for me. Ive tried dialling it out, but only way is to turn ffb pretty much off. Its all floaty and I just don't think its that great. Audio yeah best of the lot, but that wont win awards alone..

pcars is what rre should be, and in certain aspects like weather what rf2 should of been like. Theres no one sim to rule all it seems,!

Don't get me wrong I love rf2 it is great... but its not the be all and end all of sims. Some people think this.. its has many problems, its good but other sims can offer just as great experience with a wheel. Sometimes the elitists need to take off their rose tinted shades

 

[Ace King]

C'mon - don't bash and run!

Is there a sim (not arcade) that is generally accepted as the benchmark for physics? I want that!

It's a no brainer "rFactor 2" for it's ultimate physics model though i also very much enjoy AC and Pcars for their unique qualities too.

 

[Msportdan]

yep second that try Rf2 for the physics, real road and the bloody good AI..

the rest=
-car n track content
-visuals
-audio
-game modes
-polish and quality
-weather

is not up to pcars standard

 

[David O'Reilly]

He shouldn't have put a disclaimer before talking about pcars. But SMS should have put a disclaimer that what you saw hyped in screenshots and carefully selected videos (go wonder, even with triple screen setup since a long time ago, but not available to the public).
They should have put a disclaimer about Ben Collins, Rene Rast, and Nicolas Hamilton that their advice on how to make a serious sim racing game wasn't going to be taken into account. They should have put a disclaimer that they were going to name the game shift3 but went instead with project cars (community of monetary investors who get to say how the game is gonna be, and the rest of the community will work in the social media marketing hype team).

@xnorb you shouldn't have put the disclaimer that you don't own pcars, because they are now crucifying you for what you disclaimed instead of counter argument your message.

You clearly have some strong views and some knowledge about the subject.
What it has to do with me I dont quite know.
I don't own the game so have no worthwhile opinion. So I won't share it.

After seeing a few publishers over-hype their product and then just not deliver at all on what was promised (one simple and incontovertible example was codies saying for 2011 they were implementing a weight penalty for assists in mutiplayer and then simply not doing it) I pretty much ignore the publishers claims.

I also tend to ignore what can very quickly be recognised as fanboys when you see comments like "title X is gonna blow title Y out of the water when its finished". or soon as this is implemented it will be awesome"

I did listen to some well informed technical discussion over the months and years about tyre model and physics. I actually read the whole of Ben Collins initial feedback rather than just reading the name "Ben Collins".
I've watched some gameplay this week and I've asked some good drivers I know for their views.

All these things allow me to draw my personal conclusions as to whether its a direction in which I want to go. It doesnt make my views publishable as I simply havent tried it.

So whether you are right or wrong I cant debate. I do feel however that before we pass any public judgement we need to have a decent go ourselves. The post I quoted had the decency to note he hadnt done that. This gave me the time saving option of simply not reading one more word.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Now RF2 is something I can talk about.
The way the tyres behave and the way a good driver with a good set up can overcome a great driver with a tyre hungry set up is awesome. The depth of immersion that comes when its not simple whether you should 2 stop or 3 stop.
The Physics are incredible. But some 3rd party mods arent up to the level.
The sounds are great too.
You can actually implement real world real time weather if you want. Some cars however don't have tyres yet that can handle it.
AI are awesome.
Car and track content. I'm going to have to differ from a post above. I dont have the time in my life to drive them all already.
There must be over 50 cars and 40 tracks. Thats 2000 combos.

If I want to have tin top progression I can start with a hot hatch or an MX5 and progress via GT4, GT3, GT2, GT1 all the way to LMP1.
If I want an open wheeler progression I can go Skippy*, F3 , F2, FR3.5, F1.
Historics: great 1960s open wheelers* and GT cars, Shelby Cobra. Brilliant 1990s F1 cars.
3rd party GT3 grids.
I can play multiplayer with reliable collision physics and driver swaps. I have personally done a 12 hour in this sim and it was brilliant. (Spa with real world weather).

Man I had an Ipod with 8000 songs on it and most weeks would listten to the same 30 of them.
IMO 12-15 incredible cars is anough and there is way, way more than that.

Yes it lacks career mode. But there are 3rd party solutions to that one but I agree its not a strength.

*The Skippy got a recent update and if you havent already you need to try it.
The Brabham BT20 did too but I haven't had time to drive it yet.
So many cars, so little time.

But there are other sims that are fun.
I had a ball on codies F1 2011, mainly for the tings that occurred outside the actual driving (physics etc), the engineer, the career, Co-Op seasons. Stuff like that.

Disclosure: I should disclose that I have a vested interest in RF2 due to my virtual career as Skippy AI.

 

[mattrickl06]

I cancelled my junior membership in pcars around a year ago due to the following

* frame rates with my 2 7970s was nothing short of pathetic, with a car count in excess of 1 the fps was dreadful

* the feel of the car and the ffb was not good compared to my benchmark AC

* AI was poor

* compared to AC it was too easy to correct mistakes, far too arcadey

Despite the above and after watching many videos I decided to buy it and am pleasantly surprised.

* albeit I have changed my gpu's to 2 x 980s but the performance now is magnificent, on max settings and a field of 40+ other cars the frames stay locked at 60

* ffb now feels good albeit you need a fair bit of tweaking first up.

* AI is the best I have come across on any racing game! I have had some great battles on a full grid

* it is still clearly easier to play than AC but it is tougher than I remember it to be, no matter whether you are a serious sim racer or a gamer you will have lots of fun playing this.

I have not tried MP yet

I would give it a solid 9/10 and recommend it to anyone.

Just to note I am using csr wheel and elite pedals and the default profile was pretty good

 

[Fritz Anker]

I definitely had a mixed start to this game but after a few hours of playing it, definitely think it's a contender. Most of my trouble was in setting up - my pedals weren't being recognized, button mappings were not saving, TrackIR set up, and a proper FOV setting (for some reason still can't get helmet cam to 86, but 85 seems fine too). Now that these are sorted I've had some great SP races so far with several genuine "WOW" moments.

I don't have a problem with the FFB/Physics. They are different than AC and iR, and feel a bit more like driving a real car. But since I'm not in a real car, the translation of slip angle and road feel through the wheel is almost not there compared especially to AC and that is the hardest transition when driving in PCars. After a few hours, I just drive and have had great fun - so not sure I'll think this is a big deal. Having a Buttkicker does help, though.

Graphics and presentation are kind of mixed too, but generally they are impressive. I have only changed the performance settings, so I can play as the developers intended (motion blur, bloom, etc. at default) and it is quite a challenge and immersive to see your focus change based on speed, and g-forces. I like it. However, I have yet to find a good performance blend to get rid of the jaggies with a solid FPS. I'm sure that will come. Presentation wise, though, there is a lot going on and some times that works against this title's immersion. I may end up turning a few gameplay graphics down just to get a more grounded presentation. Color saturation slider would be a great addition.

AI sure is aggressive. Had its setting to 90 then turned it down to 80 and didn't see much of a change. They will bump you out of the way, dive bomb corners, and not sure if their tires start out as cold - but they seem on par for good racing as AC does. ...I have never had too much issue with AC's AI, though. Much of this would be race ending, but even with damage set to "real+mechanical" it barely hurts the car. Think this should change.

Lastly, my big gripes. Immersion killers, if you will. I hate hate hate not being able to drive out of the pits. I hope this can change. The non-laser scanned circuits so far are a big disappointment. Very wrong. Brands Hatch is amazing and good fun - so I may stay on the laser scanned tracks for now. It would also be nice for descriptions in the menu for each and every setting as you select them.

Overall, yes it is hyped but this is a good title. It needs a bit of patchwork and it will definitely be competing for my off-line attention. If they get more laser-scanned tracks, optimize the graphics and game settings, and let me drive out the pits it could be a lead player.

I play on a single screen: i7 3770K / GTX780 no overclocking with a CSW v2 and Elite Pedals.

 

[bmanic]

I don't have a problem with the FFB/Physics. They are different than AC and iR, and feel a bit more like driving a real car. But since I'm not in a real car, the translation of slip angle and road feel through the wheel is almost not there compared especially to AC and that is the hardest transition when driving in PCars.

This to me sounds weird because in my opinion Project CARS has absolutely THE BEST translation of slip angle of any simulator ever created. It is so much ahead of the competition in this regard that it isn't even funny. Especially AC has a huge problem in detailed information of optimum grip/slip angle.. iRacing is a bit better but not by much. Project CARS in a league completely of it's own.

However, this requires you to understand how the Fx, Fy, Fz and Mz parameters work in conjunction with the Steering Arm Angle parameter (all of these found in the CAR SETUP FFB tab, NOT in the controllers preferences).

Mz is the most important of the 4 values together with Spindle Arm Angle. What you do first is to make sure your Mz value is a lot higher than any of the others. This is a typical good starting place:


Fx = 80
Fy = 60 (or try even 50)
Fz = 60
Mz = 100

Make sure you bump up the Master Scale in the car to compensate for the now weakened forces (Fy is a hugely dominant force but isn't all that useful compared to Mz which is the twisting force and most relevant to slip angle).

Once you've done this you need to figure out the proper Spindle Arm Angle setting (it can ONLY be found in the car setup screen when you are not actually spawned on the track! Track garage menu is missing this setting.. which is bizarre and in my opinion a bug).

Here's how I described the Spindle Arm Angle at the WMD forums today:

It's like this: It depends on the car first and foremost. Second, it depends on how you have Fx, Fy, Fz and Mz setup (the ratio of each of these compared to the other).

For an "extreme" test, try the Ginetta G40. By default it's wheel is very center tight. Setup the FFB in the car setup tab to be Mz heavy, meaning you lower Fx, Fy and Fz while keeping Mz at 100. Something like this:

Fx = 80
Fy = 60
Fz = 60
Mz = 100

.. and increase either tire force or the spindle arm multiplier to compensate the for the weakened forces.

Now drive a few laps, make note of how your FFB goes limp when you "over turn" in a corner.. however note how the FFB actually goes light before your car clearly stops turning visually. If you are still making a good turn and you clearly have "bite" in the front tires, yet your FFB has gone light, then you know something is not correctly set with the spindle arm angle as the main suspect.

Too small value symptoms: Very tight in the center, FFB gets progressively (usually very quickly!) looser the more steering lock / the larger the slip angle becomes.

Too large value symptoms: Very loose in the center, FFB gets progressively heavier the more you turn. Very undetailed FFB at small steering angles, especially noticeable over kurbs/bumps.

"Just right" spindle arm angle symptoms: Very consistent FFB strength over the whole range of the wheel which exactly correlates to car behavior. If you clearly understeer visually, you'll clearly feel it in the FFB. The amount of optimum slip angle (where the front tires have the best "bite" and thus turning power) can be very clearly felt in the FFB. = all this usually results in a lot more understanding of the car and faster more consistent laptimes.

 

[Patrick Moore]

I would place pCARS in the simcade category. The physics appear to be more relaxed than the sims I gravitate towards (iR,AC,rF2), but I would not call them arcade physics.

As many have said above the pCARS game has a lot of potential. The game has a nice selection of cars and tracks, fantastic visuals, and a decent AI. Once I get a handle on the odd-to-me FFB setting-thingummies to improve the effects I can easily see myself playing the game against the AI more than AC or rF2.
imho,ymmv

 

[SnappyDEe]

PCars is the best racer ever.

 

[John Peat]

Firstly, any 'hype' around this game was built-up by fanboys - many of whom had seen nothing but shiny videos. SO many people here expected this game to be 'better than sliced bread' - it was inevitable they'd be a bit butthurt when it finally released.

I have 100s of hours in GTR, GTR2, Shift and Shift2 - they're games I love-to-hate and I was a bit skeptical about PCars because I didn't need another game which was half-baked with controls you spend longer fiddling with than using (Shift/Shift2) and wasn't sure I needed another sim either (GSCE, AC, RRR already scratch that itch thanks!)

A small cash windfall on release day pushed me over tho and I can confirm it's not Shift3 - neither is it GTR3 - it MIGHT be ShiftTR3 tho, a weird hybrid of sim-style racer and 'racing game' - and I'm not sure yet whether I like it or not.

Great range of cars and tracks - loads of modes and options - but the old Shift control issues are still noticeable (esp in faster roadcars) in terms of cars going to 'twitchy' to 'numb' and generally not really giving enough feedback (audio/visual or FFB)

The quality of the car handling is also quite 'all over the place' - some are nice - some are less nice. The Clios (obvious starting point in career mode) are fun but also VERY skittish and they're a good example of where the lack of feedback can leave you wondering WTF

A good example of why mashing sim/game together might not work - PCars insists on starting practice/qualifying from your garage (as with most sims) - but it auto-drives you to the end of the pitlane (arcade game) - why the ****? Either let me drive my car or start me on track - make a choice.

Much to tinker with - many cars/tracks to try races in - I'm SURE I'll get my money's worth but it really is an odd thing - it's not a pure sim, it's not a mod platform and it's not GT/Forza - so odds are everyone is going to find stuff to like AND stuff to dislike

p.s. the weather system is ****ing amazing tho - it really is a thing of beauty - not sure that will be enough on it's own tho!