PC1 Project CARS controller input needs attention

[Philip Antonia]

Hmmm!!

Can't say much as I didn't have much time, but controller input (ala Shift) needs attention:bad:.

 

[boxox]

Incidentally, from what I recall, members were asked not to comment yet on either the pre-alpha nuke, or the pre-alpha bathurst, until some errors could be corrected in the next builds.

Looking at the build notes I see

Build 83 (01/11/11, Manager+)
[...]
New suspension geometry and a quick pass over the physics for Nuke 3, to match up some real world numbers like skidpad g's, ride height and spring rates
[...]

So basically you managed to ignore that and combine criticism of a pre alpha car driving on a pre alpha track into the same post, then use it to bash the game.

Nice one, son.

I'm sure that this sort of thing can only increase their willingness to let us try out newly completed assets.

 

[Ryan Vickery]

Ryan, you said



But by your logic this is totally impossible because rFactor used the exact same data, in a file called .hdv, and GTR2 used the exact same data, in a file called .hdc. See? Totally different!

In terms of "the whole engine" - yes obviously, many components stripped and replaced. But it's just forks. SimBin has "Lizard", Shift has "Gecko". The basic physics data other than the new tyre model and collision model are pretty much identical between them, with a grand total of exactly one renamed parameter to do with anything in the chassis, and a new tyre model (not an idle choice of words - same style of brush model that iRacing switched to later).



Interestingly enough, they don't regard GTR2 as "right", and Doug Arnao said as much months after the release. They tried and failed to completely eliminate bugs in the stock ISI tyre model which made grip levels drop too quickly (and you can see this same attempt taken further by looking at what was tried next in GTR Evolution). You can read Ian talking about the same thing again here. So, you know, just something to bear in mind if you are expecting CARS to somehow emulate your favourite bugs from GTR2. It's probably not in their plans. FYI Shift's tyre adjustment is called "subtle" in that post while the GTR2 version of the same is referred to as "falling off a cliff". Make your own judgement about what that might mean.

I don't pretend to be an expert here, I am a team member with this CARS project though. I own Shift 2 and did not like it, it felt bad and it had input delays and even a delay to the game communicating back to the wheel, which resulted in everything feeling strange. Ian even said himself that they had tweaked Shift to cater for gamepad users and a mass market, so it was never a full Sim. GTR 2 was a great game, it isnt one that I hold any sentimental value for though, most of my sim racing after I purchased a wheel was done via Rfactor, and after that I moved to iRacing and NetKar Pro.

Even if you could prove to me that all the numbers from GTR2 and Shift 2 were identical, it still wouldn't change the fact that Shift 2 in actual play was nothing like GTR2, not in the way the cars handled, not in the FFB or the way the tyre model reacted to situations, it was in every way completely different, and to me in a bad way. CARS definitely has that same feel about it, but it also definitely is a lot better (than Shift) and I think it has atleast the potential to be a lot better than GTR2. But while the engine underneath is the same as it was in Shift, it will always have that feel about it, and even with the same numbers it just won't feel like GTR2 (which we don't want anyway, a years out of date sim that has been far surpassed).

 

[Ryan Vickery]

Incidentally, from what I recall, members were asked not to comment yet on either the pre-alpha nuke, or the pre-alpha bathurst, until some errors could be corrected in the next builds.

Looking at the build notes I see



So basically you managed to ignore that and combine criticism of a pre alpha car driving on a pre alpha track into the same post, then use it to bash the game.

Nice one, son.

I'm sure that this sort of thing can only increase their willingness to let us try out newly completed assets.

If this is towards me, I was talking more about tyre grip, which is the sole reason why the car is so fast, it has too much of it. You can extend the tyre grip to the other cars and tracks if you like, the same applies. I used that example simply because that is what I had been testing the most. Generally I think the cars are far too grippy in the game, and road cars on road legal semi-slicks beating lap records set by race cars is a good point of that.

I'm merely pointing out what is wrong now, you're attacking me as if i'm judging it as a finished product, which is far from the truth. The whole game is in a pre-stage and i'm merely commenting on how it is now mid progress, I don't frequent the forums much as it seems to be just a food fight of members calling each other names.

 

[April Dillon]

Having just been hit with immense lag (below 1 fps) I've found out that the force feedback does not respond in between frames. So the fidelity of the force feedback right now is directly related to your frame rate. Is this normal behavior for racing simulators?

 

[Ryan Vickery]

Just played new build (86), the Atom is no-longer the superfast supergrippy monster that it was (though it is quite bad/crazy to drive now, I suspect it won't stay this way), input lag controller issues remain. I think half of the problem is lag with the game sending back info to the wheel, as much as input lag.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

They either don't know how to dial in decent wheel precision, or are terrified of building a solid driving model as it might scare off casual gamers, ie, both Shift1/2 are loaded with feedback and that's the whole problem.
Even though FVA isn't perfect, I don't think any game has the steering precision that it has...so here's an idea, buy that driving model, add driving aids and dump Shift2's GFX on top.....problem solved.

 

[Dream-Weaver]

Make this suggestion in the WMD forum.

 

[ReDi]

They either don't know how to dial in decent wheel precision, or are terrified of building a solid driving model as it might scare off casual gamers, ie, both Shift1/2 are loaded with feedback and that's the whole problem.
Even though FVA isn't perfect, I don't think any game has the steering precision that it has...so here's an idea, buy that driving model, add driving aids and dump Shift2's GFX on top.....problem solved.

Sounds very much like another 'judge the current build as if it's a finished game' comment. They're busy with improving/tweaking/modifying input threading, FFB code and physics modeling. They hear the community and have committed to creating the most true-to-life racing experience on PC and consoles. With 12+ months of development ahead, you can't expect things to work perfectly already.

 

[Günthar Rowe]

... committed to creating the most true-to-life racing experience on PC ...

What a great name for a PC simulator content developer concept, I might use that... Oh, I did 2+ years ago and still am... :tongue:

 

[Günthar Rowe]

B.O.T

I still have G25 input lag...

 

[Eric Estes]

Just for the record, the Atom is a superfast supergrippy monster in real life.. even without wings, even without slicks.

 

[Patrick Moore]

Any updates on the input lag from wheels/controllers? I have S2U and no longer play the game due to controller-input lag. The pCARS game looks stunning so I hope it leans to towards sim-physics and has no input lag.

 

[Philip Antonia]

There is an update to the FFB in this weeks build, but I'm only a junior member so can't try it until the monthly build.

As for being a pre Alpha this is true, but the input lag has been there since Shift 1 and I'm thinking it's an issue they're not sure how to deal with. Possibly an inherent problem with the games engine!!

Though it is improved for me now, so I'm sure they'll iron it out eventually.

 

[Ivo Simons]

Got my first hours with the game. (Build 124)
It is quite nice. For sure it needs some tweaking in the FFB. Its alot like Shift now the feeling. Lots of throwing with the car and getting away with it. But overall the FFB is oke and i feel it has potential. Can feel the car slide etc and feel good the kerbs. Only its very twitchy on high speeds were it is in slower corners oke. Played with the speed sensitivity abit but that didnt effected it to much. So atm i cant be accurate all the time when i want to turn in as i am the whole time correcting the wheel. Using 400 lock with 0.20 ingame.
But i am keeping a eye on the game for sure and how it evolves every month.

 

[Rob Every]

Ivo, you seem to have very similar opinion to me.

I tried junior membership today and as you say some aspects of the FFB are superb, the feelings of the different surfaces are in my eyes better than RF2, as are the kerbs.

But the steering feel is weird, it does feel like a pad game, the throttle feels stagey rather than linear, as if it goes up in tiny increments rather than smoothly, like you are watching a really laggy server and you can hear the engine note goin bbbb bbbbb bbbbb bbbbb? lol

I like the menu system., that is fine for a new game.

Has anyone worked out why the steering always resets to 980 or something in the options menu, even when you save it to something else?