Cars Porsche 911 Singer 1.1

[Denis Betty]

Hey guys, you've hijacked this thread.
Could you take it outside please.
Some of us have read enough of your bickering. This is a thread about a mod.
Thanks.

 

[Andy-R]

My tyre volume is set at 100%, Engine is at 80%, everything else is far below that. Hearing what the tyres are doing at any given moment helps me quite a bit in determining how much I can push the car.

I drove 10 laps at Silverstone Intl and even at 97% grip I found the car to be quite controllable in the higher speed corners. I managed a 1:16.5 which I imagine isn't terribly fast.

I'd be curious to see what Andy R could do. He seems to be wicked fast at Silverstone Intl.

Also, setting the Tyres Offset in the CM to 50% made a massive difference in car control for me. Apparently this setting changes the threshold at which the tyres start squealing which goes a long way in letting me know exactly when the tyres are close to or at the limits of adhesion.

I'll have a crack at it if you like. Not getting involved in peen measuring, I'm sure many could do a faster lap but as you mentioned me I'll have a go on the weekend. What ambient temp?

 

[CobraCat]

I'll have a crack at it if you like. Not getting involved in peen measuring, I'm sure many could do a faster lap but as you mentioned me I'll have a go on the weekend. What ambient temp?

I tried at 21 and then 11C. My lap times were 1sec apart. I was more so determining car stability at lower grip levels than super fast lap times. I tried 97% then Green track grip.

I found the car quite controllable regardless of grip level or ambient temp.

 

[Andy-R]

I tried at 21 and then 11C. My lap times were 1sec apart. I was more so determining car stability at lower grip levels than super fast lap times. I tried 97% then Green track grip.

I found the car quite controllable regardless of grip level or ambient temp.

I haven't driven it since the beta version with locked brake bias. I'll try at 97%, green has some variation.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Here, some .acd for whoever wants to try them. More up to date Singer and a C2 on M030's which should be closer to the cars Robin drove. Mind you, 205/225, not 205/255.

https://mega.nz/#!qswmQAZA!UousqODK9AAJd8avOMgfU7jRbgJV9DFKHtA_EA5Nois
https://mega.nz/#!7whUHQTQ!I4Kfm2lfDCwH7FGcddBc6OAhfunFAUM2_mgDcL0Fbwk

Rename old data, copy these in then copy the one you want and rename it to just data.acd etc. etc.

 

[Robin_NL]

Here, some .acd for whoever wants to try them. More up to date Singer and a C2 on M030's which should be closer to the cars Robin drove. Mind you, 205/225, not 205/255.

https://mega.nz/#!qswmQAZA!UousqODK9AAJd8avOMgfU7jRbgJV9DFKHtA_EA5Nois
https://mega.nz/#!7whUHQTQ!I4Kfm2lfDCwH7FGcddBc6OAhfunFAUM2_mgDcL0Fbwk

Rename old data, copy these in then copy the one you want and rename it to just data.acd etc. etc.

Thanks. The second link is a car with a very very very slow engine.Issue remains.
Power oversteer never is the issue, it's the coasting/zero throttle turn in for me.
First link feels a tad 'better' relatively. But anyway thanks!

I won't bother you anymore and I'm waiting for the next build to come up.

Cheers
Robin

 

[jonelsorel]

I have driven a 964RS and a lot of Elfers in real life. Have you? My old man had a 1989 3.2 Carrera from 1995-1999....

And what accuracy? Arch is dissing Kunos' CTR like it's the worst sim car ever, still he hasn't driven an old Elfer in real life.....so what accuracy?

So basically it's only accurate if it's like you say it should be, Robin. And this because Aris asked for your opinion once (appeal to authority) and you "drove a lot of elfers" (repetition). Not exactly objective. You're misunderstanding me if you think I have some grudge here, because that's a waste of energy on my part. But you don't give 2 ***ts (cents) on data, other people's better understanding of physics, car mechanics and their ability to reproduce that in the ac engine, or other people's arguments. Plus you showed quite doubtful car control in a clip you posted of your own accord. Hence my invitation to host an online session, an idea which you declined/disagreed with. What gives?

I just did a 1:17.870 on my 3rd lap ever on Silverstone International, green track, air temp 10 degrees, track 9, stock setup. Which is pretty much conditions no one would test a car in to get a good idea of how it handles. Or a mod. And nowhere close to the conditions R&T had when they tested this car - June in California (clip was posted, but it didn't count as an argument to you). And the rear end tends to slip out when coasting only if I handle the steering wheel like a pressure valve.

 

[jonelsorel]

Road & Track pulled 0.93G with this car when they tested it on the skidpad.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a25850/exclusive-test-porsche-911-reimagined-by-singer/

I just pulled over 1G on streets and over 1.1G on semislicks. On a 20 degree green track.

And you say it needs more grip, Robin?

 

[Avo77]

Road & Track pulled 0.93G with this car when they tested it on the skidpad.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a25850/exclusive-test-porsche-911-reimagined-by-singer/

I just pulled over 1G on streets and over 1.1G on semislicks. On a 20 degree green track.

And you say it needs more grip, Robin?

View attachment 332263
View attachment 332264

View attachment 332265

No, ti needs more balance...

 

[jonelsorel]

I think he expressed the idea that it wildly oversteers, and doesn't understeer as much as he expects. As compared to the many 911s he's driven. Not Singers. Apples and oranges, for the sake of comparison. Must be the first human to say 911s generally understeer. Which they do, when not being driven hard enough, considering 60% of their weight is at the back.

Which brings me back to saying what's already obvious if you frequent online sessions: most people overdrive in their sims. Not in real life, for obvious reasons.

 

[Avo77]

If you want to test, this has my old v7 tires converted in v10
- download
- make a backup copy of data.acd in bo_singer folder
- extract in bo_singer folder
https://mega.nz/#!q1oEgYJJ!V_QF8R26JG3rLNRu3sugyrDwo-O8bF0ZHTIbQkvtueM

 

[Robin_NL]

I just did a 1:16.5 @ Silverstone International 18 degrees ambient. Fast Track.
(Sportauto tested an M2 Comp at 1 degres Celsius @ Hockenheim last year....)
Still a lot of oversteer @ higher speeds which is physically incorrect because of rearend/tyrewidth.

Must be the first human to say 911s generally understeer.

Have you ever driven a 911 in real life? Old 911 do really understeer in general. I'm not the first human to say this. 964RS understeers like a madman. A Singer is a 911 too you know.

I'm 49y.o. and old man so to say. What's your age? What's your real life driving/track experience?
What do you know about real life carcontrol and real life carphysics , what do you drive in real life?
Please answer. Thank you.

How can it be we've been driving AC almost 6 years many many of us stated physics are spot on in general, we've been downloading many many modded cars, some good, some better, some not so good, and now you're implying Kunos/AC realism/physics aren't so good after all(.......)

...... though you do not have real life Elfer/track/car experience to back that up.
At this moment it's only your simrace experience you have and that's about it?
Simracing is not real life driving /racing, not by 200 miles. Come on!

Still you believe (the data of) a few very young modders who brought you a 911 RSR 1975 and CTR-1 with a very stable rear end(kudos to them) but now I find Singer's rear end physically is wrong/to loose it's suddenly ok because real life videos say so?(Which they actually don't but wishful thinking) And you accuse me of some 'lies' and me not having car control . What is this ?


How can such a wide semislick Cup 2 reartyre step out at such ridiculous speeds on power(and it lacks torque it's an atmo engine) or when coasting at normal speeds when you don't do but steer a bit. It's fun but it's not realistic compared to the other modded cars.

I'm way faster @ Silverstone Intl in the 'flawed(you all said it) ' and oversteery (on power) Kunos CTR than in the Singer. Singer is 'fun' but very very strange in its behaviour vs the rest of the Elfers imo.

I'm awaiting the new build with a more planted rear end. A car will not power-oversteer on @ 180kmh in a very tiny steering angle, not a Singer with such wide Cup2 reartires and a NA engine. Period.

Cheers
Robin

 

[jonelsorel]

@Avo77: They definitely feel way more stickier than Arch's. But i think it's a bit too much for a car with close to no aero downforce, maybe even a little lift, and which by default forces you to balance its weight carefully in order to load the tires to get mechanical grip.

Arch, I've also tried your updated tires. The back, the business end, has much more control around and slightly over the edge of grip. It's like time pauses and lets you catch the slide while smoking a cigarette. Front feels way too grippy turning in under power, when it's supposed to be light, and again, not much balancing is necessary to get mechanical grip. The charm of the vintage 911 is to be able to put just enough weight on the front for it to grip and turn but not so much as to turn the rear into an errupting volcano. It's almost a balancing act on an on/off switch, hence the early resentment towards the car.

Robin, you're bringing a serious discussion into the realm of the ridiculous with your "compared to other mods". Nobody in their serious mind would try to make their mod handle like "other mods" mate, but like the real car, which nobody here has driven, but which we have data on and a few laps of it on video, pushed moderately hard (and it oversteers). Most AC mods - which you mention to be okay - are totally mediocre or just pure crap when it comes to physics (suspension positioning, tuning, tires, aero). I, for one, would take one good mod over 500 crap ones any day. Quality over quantity. For you number seems to be an argument. It isn't. If 99% of people say cows is blue, it doesn't make them blue.

Stop asking users how many 911s they've driven, what they know about car control, if they have a licence or how old they are. Going into the personal dents your (missing) arguments. What you have is an opinion. You've demonstrated in your clip that you have barely any car control yourself and that your braking/turn-in points have nothing to do with grip racing. And I have very serious doubts that you have driven any of those "elfers" at the edge in real life, if you consider a 964 or 993 to be stable and even understeery , despite ALL the videos available that prove the exact opposite. All the experience you pretend to have should be seen in you finding grip with any car you're given, not wanting it more planted because all the others are.

 

[Robin_NL]

@Avo77: They definitely feel way more stickier than Arch's. But i think it's a bit too much for a car with close to no aero downforce, maybe even a little lift, and which by default forces you to balance its weight carefully in order to load the tires to get mechanical grip.

Arch, I've also tried your updated tires. The back, the business end, has much more control around and slightly over the edge of grip. It's like time pauses and lets you catch the slide while smoking a cigarette. Front feels way too grippy turning in under power, when it's supposed to be light, and again, not much balancing is necessary to get mechanical grip. The charm of the vintage 911 is to be able to put just enough weight on the front for it to grip and turn but not so much as to turn the rear into an errupting volcano. It's almost a balancing act on an on/off switch, hence the early resentment towards the car.

Robin, you're bringing a serious discussion into the realm of the ridiculous with your "compared to other mods". Nobody in their serious mind would try to make their mod handle like "other mods" mate, but like the real car, which nobody here has driven, but which we have data on and a few laps of it on video, pushed moderately hard (and it oversteers). Most AC mods - which you mention to be okay - are totally mediocre or just pure crap when it comes to physics (suspension positioning, tuning, tires, aero). I, for one, would take one good mod over 500 crap ones any day. Quality over quantity. For you number seems to be an argument. It isn't. If 99% of people say cows is blue, it doesn't make them blue.

Stop asking users how many 911s they've driven, what they know about car control, if they have a licence or how old they are. Going into the personal dents your (missing) arguments. What you have is an opinion. You've demonstrated in your clip that you have barely any car control yourself and that your braking/turn-in points have nothing to do with grip racing. And I have very serious doubts that you have driven any of those "elfers" at the edge in real life, if you consider a 964 or 993 to be stable and even understeery , despite ALL the videos available that prove the exact opposite. All the experience you pretend to have should be seen in you finding grip with any car you're given, not wanting it more planted because all the others are.

So.....you did not answer my serious questions....
if/then I'm discussing this with probably a 16 y.o kid who doesn't have a driving licence and a clue about realistic car physics, has never driven a 911 and/or on track, but sees simracing as 'the end all be all of things', and has an opposite opinion than I have about a Singer modded car.

Real life driving/racing car control doesn't equal sim racing control mate. Never forget that.

And an opinion about a video in which I demonstrate my drifting/car control of the super flawed Kunos CTR. I wanted to show I can control a 911 based powerful sim car. That's all.

I can live with that opinion. No worries mate.
I'm still faster than you on Silverstone Intl in that Singer for now.....

Cheers
Robin

 

[jonelsorel]

Thanks for confirming your ego is the size of a kid.

Peace out.

 

[Ben O'Bro]

guys, this is the support thread
take each other's discord account or whatever and go have a chat there,
we're 17 pages in and counting

 

[Robin_NL]

If you want to test, this has my old v7 tires converted in v10
- download
- make a backup copy of data.acd in bo_singer folder
- extract in bo_singer folder
https://mega.nz/#!q1oEgYJJ!V_QF8R26JG3rLNRu3sugyrDwo-O8bF0ZHTIbQkvtueM

Is this only the tyres?
Rear is planted in neutral/coasting state like I wanted it. Though the car itself feels a bit too easy/grippy(front end) for an old Elfer

Thanks, because this is the start of how I (that's me ) think the rear end should be in the first place and that's my opinion

Cheers
Robin

 

[Robin_NL]

guys, this is the support thread
take each other's discord account or whatever and go have a chat there,
we're 17 pages in and counting

Sorry . No more discussing with them kids.

Cheers
Robin

 

[Kyuubeey]

Guys, can we just stay on the facts. I'm not gonna increase rear grip or make the tires not really lose any grip on sliding like the set posted earlier. We've started to make very narrow generalizations of a car type, when like I said all you need to do is increase front camber and rear ARB to make these cars oversteer.

C2's weren't sold in the US with 205/225 like my car earlier, but 205/255. I can update up a set of 255 to be more presentable but that won't prove anything. I know how it handles, I made it myself. It's also possible the stock ARB bushing coefficient could be set 0.1 higher in the C2, so a tiny bit more grip gets biased towards the rear in sustained G cornering. I think that'd about do it "for the most part". The engine's fine too although power loss could be 1 or 2% lower, which is a tiny bit of power, but it won't make it "not lazy".

For the Singer, we're talking about a car for which I probably have the most information to make judgments on. For all I know they don't lock out the Weissach effect and just put in mildly stiffer bushings and not rock solid poly stuff. I can try stuff like that. It's pretty close as-is. Nothing 5000 hours of tweaking the setup wouldn't fix, like they did IRL.

 

[Avo77]

I

@Avo77: They definitely feel way more stickier than Arch's. But i think it's a bit too much for a car with close to no aero downforce, maybe even a little lift, and which by default forces you to balance its weight carefully in order to load the tires to get mechanical grip.

Arch, I've also tried your updated tires. The back, the business end, has much more control around and slightly over the edge of grip. It's like time pauses and lets you catch the slide while smoking a cigarette. Front feels way too grippy turning in under power, when it's supposed to be light, and again, not much balancing is necessary to get mechanical grip. The charm of the vintage 911 is to be able to put just enough weight on the front for it to grip and turn but not so much as to turn the rear into an errupting volcano. It's almost a balancing act on an on/off switch, hence the early resentment towards the car.

Robin, you're bringing a serious discussion into the realm of the ridiculous with your "compared to other mods". Nobody in their serious mind would try to make their mod handle like "other mods" mate, but like the real car, which nobody here has driven, but which we have data on and a few laps of it on video, pushed moderately hard (and it oversteers). Most AC mods - which you mention to be okay - are totally mediocre or just pure crap when it comes to physics (suspension positioning, tuning, tires, aero). I, for one, would take one good mod over 500 crap ones any day. Quality over quantity. For you number seems to be an argument. It isn't. If 99% of people say cows is blue, it doesn't make them blue.

Stop asking users how many 911s they've driven, what they know about car control, if they have a licence or how old they are. Going into the personal dents your (missing) arguments. What you have is an opinion. You've demonstrated in your clip that you have barely any car control yourself and that your braking/turn-in points have nothing to do with grip racing. And I have very serious doubts that you have driven any of those "elfers" at the edge in real life, if you consider a 964 or 993 to be stable and even understeery , despite ALL the videos available that prove the exact opposite. All the experience you pretend to have should be seen in you finding grip with any car you're given, not wanting it more planted because all the others are.

It was a quick conversion with one lap of testing for each tire set made for testing balance.
For sure it’s on the grippy side, but it has no correlation with the car willingness to kill you