Podium DD's VS Simucube 2's

[Darren Byrne]

Hi guys, the past while I was trying to find good comparisons between these two models of dd's. Has anyone tested both ? I understand that the software for these aren't complete yet but is there any clear winner here ? thanks.

 

[ajbastion]

Hey man,

If you are based in the US and looking to buy a DD2 I have one for sale, its 17 days old.

I could trade you the DD2 for your SC2 if you plan to sell it, and if it is the R2 version.

I am new to sim racing other than in GT which I used to play years ago and I am only selling it because I don't like the wheels on offer, compared to whats available on SC. Also dont like being locked to the fanatec ecosystem. I bought it at first because the SC platform looked a bit intimidating at first, but got over it once I learned more.

I don't have any play in my quick release. Nothing at all. I believe its an issue on the wheels itself and not on the base.

My biggest issues with the fanatec were that I could feel the notchy-ness of the outrunner motor at a stop and at slow speeds, but you literally forget about it after 30 seconds and wouldn't notice at all if you hadn't used a servo motor like the SC2 that I owned.

That being said I just wish it wasn't there, it removes and prohibits the rubber-smooth feel that I found cool in the SC2, but again, this impacted literally nothing after a few minutes with the DD2.

My other issue is obviously the QR. How it shipped like this, I have no idea. It's wholly unacceptable to have to 3D print something to make it work and the design itself is just bad. I wouldn't be considering the base at all if they didn't have such wide swaths of official support across games/sim/simcades/consoles.

Edit:

This gets overlooked and the boosted media dude mentions it a bit, but when I would spent a day with the DD2 at my friend's place, and then went home on my SC2 I did miss just having games immediately recognize my wheel and give me decent feeling from the jump, I did miss the display on the base itself and on the wheel, I missed the clutch paddle, I missed adjusting FFB strength on the fly. I really did miss that stuff, and I really didn't miss anything when I went from the SC2 to the Podium.

It seems to be because the fanatec does so much wrong that we forget to talk about what they do RIGHT. The little creature comforts and the native support really do go miles when you have one in front of you.

 

[TheNatural]

Hey man,

If you are based in the US and looking to buy a DD2 I have one for sale, its 17 days old.

I could trade you the DD2 for your SC2 if you plan to sell it, and if it is the R2 version.

I am new to sim racing other than in GT which I used to play years ago and I am only selling it because I don't like the wheels on offer, compared to whats available on SC. Also dont like being locked to the fanatec ecosystem. I bought it at first because the SC platform looked a bit intimidating at first, but got over it once I learned more.

I don't have any play in my quick release. Nothing at all. I believe its an issue on the wheels itself and not on the base.

I'm not in the US, I don't have the SC2 anymore, I sold it long ago, and I would only buy a fanatec base with the intention of potential future console support which the DD2 doesn't offer and even then I'm still relatively undecided.

Sorry man.

 

[cap7ainclu7ch]

Are you able to get a refund from fanatec after using it for a while?

No, would be selling it along with my Porsche Endurance setup.

 

[ajbastion]

No worries man. This seems to be a very difficult decision, given the length of this thread. Haha

I'm not in the US, I don't have the SC2 anymore, I sold it long ago, and I would only buy a fanatec base with the intention of potential future console support which the DD2 doesn't offer and even then I'm still relatively undecided.

Sorry man.

 

[TedBrosby-]

Hello everyone,
I'll be making a more detailed review for a video, but I thought I'd give some initial impressions.

Elephant in the Room:
I promised I would be neutral and honest. It's not as smooth as the Simucube 2. It's not just at a rest, but at pretty much any low FFB torque scenarios (Let's say 0 to 3 Nm of Torque), the Simucube 2 is smoother. If I had to give a percentage, I would say it's not the same percentage across the board. Once you're at speed, or higher than 3 Nm of torque, actually racing, you won't notice the smoothness difference. You really won't, or at least it won't be as prevalent. So what I'll say is that from 0 to 3 Nm of torque, the Simucube 2 is smoother by about 15-25%. It's that big of a difference.
However, once you get into higher torque readings, the difference is less pervasive and more subtle.
You can feel the stator "snapping" into position of the rotor and permanent magnet in small detents. It almost feels like a very smooth, but still detectable rotary encoder (you know those cheap Chinese rotary encoders how the detents are not very snappy so it feels like a bumpy rotation?).
Anyone who says the DD1 is "just as smooth" as the SC1 is not being honest, or had terrible settings for their SC1, because in all honesty, the SC1 with Biss-C encoder is just as smooth as the Simucube 2. The Simucube 2 just has more room for a higher slew rate but also a much more controllable slew rate. The Small MIGE was a little fast, to the point of being a bit risky to drive at full current. Plus the Small MIGE Simucube was less power efficient than the SC2, so there are advantages to the SC2 over the SC1, but "smoothness" isn't one of them.

The elephant has another elephant:
Yes, I did say the SC2 was smoother, but I didn't say that I value that smoothness over the advantages of the Podium.
Setting up the Podium was much faster for me. Dialing in settings from the steering wheel is super convenient. You can see the settings on the Podium LED and while you're in the Tuning menu, you can see a neat little description of the setting that tells you what it does. Making adjustments on the fly was so much easier that I was in game and driving in minutes after installation, whereas even the SC2 required a lot of seat time just finding settings, getting it detected.
Also, I like Fanatec steering wheels. On a Fanatec wheelbase, they're wireless, they support analog clutches (while being wireless), the LED screen and RPM lights are cool, and they have way more functions.
For me, the advantages of Fanatec: console compatibility (you can't use SC2 with PS5, GimX isn't compatible with PS5), the range of steering wheels, not having to worry about getting a wheelside kit for QR for every wheel I buy, and how affordable the wheels are, weighed more heavily to me than the smoothness of the Simucube 2.

I'll go into more detail when I do a video, but the TLDR of it is:
If you intend to only race on PC, don't mind that the wireless wheels are very expensive for good features, and you don't mind plugging in more than 3 USB cables to get all your hardware connected, Simucube 2 is better.

If you don't like spending more than $700 per steering wheel, race in retro Formula cars or other H-pattern cars that have a clutch launch (you want an analog clutch paddle set but wireless), if you want to race on console, if you want to minimize to one USB cable for all your hardware and don't plan on getting Sprint/Ultimate pedals, then the Podium F1 is better.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Great review Ted, thanks for taking time putting your thoughts in writing, it was quite a rollercoaster for you, SC1->SC2->DD1.

and you don't mind plugging in more than 3 USB cables

On USB cables requirements, one for wheelbase, one for pedals, where are more than 3 come from?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Great review Ted, thanks for taking time putting your thoughts in writing, it was quite a rollercoaster for you, SC1->SC2->D1.

On USB cables requirements, one for wheelbase, one for pedals, where are more than 3 come from?

I have a SINGLE plug from my 10 port USB hub attached to my rig

However I do have 8 USB plugs going into that hub.
It's not much effort since I only connect them to the hub once or if I tear my rig up.

SC2 Pro
Pedals
H pattern shift
Hand brake
Button box
Sequential shift
Steering wheel
NLRv3

BTW I consider those $700 plus steering wheels an asset. I was perfectly happy with my Fanatec wheels until I purchased a high quality wheel. It felt night and day better to me. Much better switch gear, very comfortable, very durable. "IF" I wanted to use those wheels with a DD2, it would actually cost me more per wheel because of the adapter I would need.

That said I purchased my SC2 Pro mostly to support the first wheel I wanted to buy and I wasn't very worried about the cost.

 

[St3fan]

I have vrs dfp, steering wheel plate, v3 pedals, shh shifter, a handbrake, a snes replica controller as a button box, and a Logitech joystick (also as a button box for racing games) and then AMS1 refuse to recognize all 7… I get around the issue by using joy2key to bind shh shifter (the 7th controller in Windows controller order) to keyboard presses. I do miss that my CSL elite had fewer cables and less chance of Windows updates in the future mess up with my controller order. I hope that when VRS releases their pedals and wheel plate they can find a away to not require additional USB ports.

Hello everyone,
I'll be making a more detailed review for a video, but I thought I'd give some initial impressions.
View attachment 453603

Elephant in the Room:
I promised I would be neutral and honest. It's not as smooth as the Simucube 2. It's not just at a rest, but at pretty much any low FFB torque scenarios (Let's say 0 to 3 Nm of Torque), the Simucube 2 is smoother. If I had to give a percentage, I would say it's not the same percentage across the board. Once you're at speed, or higher than 3 Nm of torque, actually racing, you won't notice the smoothness difference. You really won't, or at least it won't be as prevalent. So what I'll say is that from 0 to 3 Nm of torque, the Simucube 2 is smoother by about 15-25%. It's that big of a difference.
However, once you get into higher torque readings, the difference is less pervasive and more subtle.
You can feel the stator "snapping" into position of the rotor and permanent magnet in small detents. It almost feels like a very smooth, but still detectable rotary encoder (you know those cheap Chinese rotary encoders how the detents are not very snappy so it feels like a bumpy rotation?).
Anyone who says the DD1 is "just as smooth" as the SC1 is not being honest, or had terrible settings for their SC1, because in all honesty, the SC1 with Biss-C encoder is just as smooth as the Simucube 2. The Simucube 2 just has more room for a higher slew rate but also a much more controllable slew rate. The Small MIGE was a little fast, to the point of being a bit risky to drive at full current. Plus the Small MIGE Simucube was less power efficient than the SC2, so there are advantages to the SC2 over the SC1, but "smoothness" isn't one of them.

The elephant has another elephant:
Yes, I did say the SC2 was smoother, but I didn't say that I value that smoothness over the advantages of the Podium.
Setting up the Podium was much faster for me. Dialing in settings from the steering wheel is super convenient. You can see the settings on the Podium LED and while you're in the Tuning menu, you can see a neat little description of the setting that tells you what it does. Making adjustments on the fly was so much easier that I was in game and driving in minutes after installation, whereas even the SC2 required a lot of seat time just finding settings, getting it detected.
Also, I like Fanatec steering wheels. On a Fanatec wheelbase, they're wireless, they support analog clutches (while being wireless), the LED screen and RPM lights are cool, and they have way more functions.
For me, the advantages of Fanatec: console compatibility (you can't use SC2 with PS5, GimX isn't compatible with PS5), the range of steering wheels, not having to worry about getting a wheelside kit for QR for every wheel I buy, and how affordable the wheels are, weighed more heavily to me than the smoothness of the Simucube 2.

I'll go into more detail when I do a video, but the TLDR of it is:
If you intend to only race on PC, don't mind that the wireless wheels are very expensive for good features, and you don't mind plugging in more than 3 USB cables to get all your hardware connected, Simucube 2 is better.

If you don't like spending more than $700 per steering wheel, race in retro Formula cars or other H-pattern cars that have a clutch launch (you want an analog clutch paddle set but wireless), if you want to race on console, if you want to minimize to one USB cable for all your hardware and don't plan on getting Sprint/Ultimate pedals, then the Podium F1 is better.

Just out of curiosity can the DD relatively lesser smoothness be solved by adjusting filter settings?

Looking forward to your video review.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I have a SINGLE plug from my 10 port USB hub attached to my rig

I'd guess 99% of us just use USB hub on the rig.
I was referring to minimal setup for paddle shifted wheel. Wheel is wireless, so you need only USB for wheelbase and pedals to get going. There are also pedals that plug into SC2 base.
Of course if we start counting all crazy peripherals that some of us have in our setups you can quickly run out of fingers (and may be even toes ). But Podium base does not solve for those either.
Anyway, just wanted to point out that "you need more than 3 USB cables" (that is at least 4) can be misinterpreted as a minimum requirement to get SC2 going.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I use a hub for the peripheral stuff, but wheel and pedals are plugged directly into the mother board.
I´m " wired like that" , keep it as simple and straight as possible.
do i really have less latency in the steering?
i can´t tell.

MFG Carsten

 

[RCHeliguy]

I use a hub for the peripheral stuff, but wheel and pedals are plugged directly into the mother board.
I´m " wired like that" , keep it as simple and straight as possible.
do i really have less latency in the steering?
i can´t tell.

MFG Carsten

No one could tell, period.

For some reason I think of Daft Punk when I see your avatar instead of the Stig.

 

[TedBrosby-]

I'd guess 99% of us just use USB hub on the rig.
I was referring to minimal setup for paddle shifted wheel. Wheel is wireless, so you need only USB for wheelbase and pedals to get going. There are also pedals that plug into SC2 base.
Of course if we start counting all crazy peripherals that some of us have in our setups you can quickly run out of fingers (and may be even toes ). But Podium base does not solve for those either.
Anyway, just wanted to point out that "you need more than 3 USB cables" (that is at least 4) can be misinterpreted as a minimum requirement to get SC2 going.

Of course if you use Simtag or Racework pedals you can go directly into the base. For me Sprints was my price ceiling for pedals. If I break into the 2000+ iRating, I would consider better pedals to squeeze out more tenths from my lap times.
with Sprints and an H pattern, you’d need three USB cables at least to connect the SC2. Assuming you’re willing to use CS 3.0 pedals and the Fanatec shifter, you can plug them directly to the Podium. It even includes a higher resolution RJ cable to replace the inferior one included with the pedals originally.
I am building an SFFPC build and combined with VR, a lot of my USB ports get used up. And I’ve never had a good experience using a hub for my peripherals. Maybe I need a higher quality one.
Once I can get ahold of a PS5, I wanna test the wheelbase and Sprint pedals with it on a DriveHub. Don’t wanna give up Sprints...

 

[TedBrosby-]

I have vrs dfp, steering wheel plate, v3 pedals, shh shifter, a handbrake, a snes replica controller as a button box, and a Logitech joystick (also as a button box for racing games) and then AMS1 refuse to recognize all 7… I get around the issue by using joy2key to bind shh shifter (the 7th controller in Windows controller order) to keyboard presses. I do miss that my CSL elite had fewer cables and less chance of Windows updates in the future mess up with my controller order. I hope that when VRS releases their pedals and wheel plate they can find a away to not require additional USB ports.


Just out of curiosity can the DD relatively lesser smoothness be solved by adjusting filter settings?

Looking forward to your video review.

I tried the Max interpolation setting and all it did was numb and reduce curb feeling to nothing. Actually increased interpolation made the lack of smoothness on DD1 MORE noticeable, not less. It’s just one of the physical cons of an outrunner motor.
if you want to buy a DD1, best advice I can give you is to never ever try an SC2. You’ll never be able to forget the difference. I’m okay sacrificing it, but I doubt everyone is.
At the risk of drawing anger from people who disagree, I’ll admit that even the ClubSport 2.5 at 1 or 2 Nm of torque feels a little smoother.
I’ll play around more to see why, but my hands are pretty sensitive and I can definitely feel the stator and magnet in the pit lane.

I’d like to reiterate, I’m not saying the Podium/DD1 is bad, at all. It’s amazing. And I don’t regret it at all. But it absolutely is not as smooth as a Simucube. I can’t agree with anyone that says it is.
For me, I just didn’t want to spend $900 per steering wheel (import plus shipping to Japan), so the QR not being as good was a small sacrifice to pay for having wheels I can get in the country for under $500. ClubSport wheel quality is good enough for me, and you yourself are the most important person who’s standards you should meet.

like I said if you’re on PC only, and don’t mind buying a QR kit for every wheel you get, SC2 is better. Now that I’ve driven both I can confirm that for you. But just get an R1. I don’t trust the R2 personally.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

BTW, Ted, as Forza vs GT was brought up in this thread, take a look at what is expected in new FM.
Also FH4 is on Steam now, few days out and 20K peak players already.

 

[TedBrosby-]

BTW, Ted, as Forza vs GT was brought up in this thread, take a look at what is expected in new FM.
Also FH4 is on Steam now, few days out and 20K peak players already.

That sounds really interesting. FM7 itself wasn’t that bad but they just stopped working on it and Granite wasn’t able to get a Simucube to them (they tried).
I don’t wanna be a doom sayer, but if GT7 sucks or has a crappy career mode (glares at GT6 menacingly), my Podium will be on EBay/marketplace faster than V12 formula 0-60. And I feel I’m not alone in that.
Literally the primary reason I got it was GT7 and Fanatec wheels. Without GT7, it’ll be really really tough for me to justify even with the cheaper wheels. Guess my rollercoaster won’t finish lol.
Xbox game pass + PC compatibility means any Windows wheel is able to play Forza. I’ve heard XB Series X/S games will be Windows compatible at launch.
If FM’s career mode is solid (slowly build up your garage, race in slower classes and build money to buy/mod), I’d be willing to skip GT7 and a PS5 altogether.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

UWP games which include Forza Apex, FM7, FH3 and FH4 were already PC compatible. I've heard they're moving from UWP to proper win32. Still not sure that this will make it DirectInput wheels compatible, they've probably never heard of Podium or Simucube2, or consider their market too small to bother.
May be Turn10 and GD could work something out this time and we wouldn't need EmuWheel.

 

[cap7ainclu7ch]

like I said if you’re on PC only, and don’t mind buying a QR kit for every wheel you get, SC2 is better. Now that I’ve driven both I can confirm that for you. But just get an R1. I don’t trust the R2 personally.

Sorry if this has been covered already but why don't you trust the R2? I'm looking to upgrade from my DD1 within the next few months.

 

[stigs2cousin]

There was a discussion a few pages back wether the change from two power bricks to one had any adverse influence on the power delivery.
Nominally the new PSU has a lower wattage but GD states that it has higher "impulse stability" so no one would feel a difference in power delivery.

I like to drive classic cars with high steering forces and big steering wheels for example Shelby Cobra with TD 80% and AC 50% which shakes my hole rig around. Never got it to clip, mostly the clipping beam is up to 50% or less.

The SC2 pro is on my rig since Black friday and except for the "loose antenna problem" it´s absolutely flawless.
GD has a PDF out how to fix that yourself.
i´ve just not gotten around to it since my wireless wheel project is still a work in progress.

MFG Carsten

 

[TedBrosby-]

Sorry if this has been covered already but why don't you trust the R2? I'm looking to upgrade from my DD1 within the next few months.

The rear IO plate on the SC2 R1 was just better engineered, aside from the loose antenna issue. GD themselves admit it was over-engineered. It had two Meanwell power supplies, and for years people said Meanwell was the standard and the best PSU company you can use. Out of nowhere, they can't get Meanwell to manufacture a single 480W PSU that meets the power requirements they have, so they switch to a brand no one has heard of and all of a sudden "Meanwell isn't that good actually, there's way better PSU companies out there". It seems a bit strange to suddenly call a company's PSU mediocre after maintaining that they were "the best" for years.

GD also said that there was some changes to the power delivery due to the new PSU's inability to run 480W sustained, apparently the R2 has a lower max amperage compared to the R1. @Andrew_WOT asked them repeatedly if the SC2 Pro R1 has a lower max power limit due to needing the same software for the R1/R2 and all they said was that a user wouldn't be able to notice the difference. I'm still not really sure what the answer is to the question.

It's just my engineer opinion that the R1 is a better built unit. R2 looks more "commercial" grade in my opinion. None of this is backed by any concrete information though, it's all just opinion and conjecture. Either one will probably offer you exactly the same powerful, smooth FFB experience.

 

[stigs2cousin]

And:

if you are not up to very long search of the used market the point is probably moot.
You won´t find a R1 new since the change was more than half a year ago.

About the antenna:
I actually like how they handled that. I´d rather do the "work" of 5min myself than send the unit back and don´t have a wheel for two weeks.
GD published an "aircraft industry standart" instruction manual for the job.

MFG Carsten