Podium DD's VS Simucube 2's

[Darren Byrne]

Hi guys, the past while I was trying to find good comparisons between these two models of dd's. Has anyone tested both ? I understand that the software for these aren't complete yet but is there any clear winner here ? thanks.

 

[EsxPaul]

I think a clean break is the way to go. I wish I had done the same myself.

By the time you've paid for a conversion kit and some decent feeling shifters, you aren't too far away from the cost of a far higher quality custom rim that's really built for the job.

 

[RCHeliguy]

So I assume you SC2 owners just remember to hit the cut off button as 2nd nature whenever you need to pause for a while.

 

[EsxPaul]

I never do. For me, a very short "beep" once every 4 minutes or so doesn't bother me in the slightest but yes, you can just hit the emergency stop or go back into low torque mode via True Drive if it does.

 

[RobertR1]

So I assume you SC2 owners just remember to hit the cut off button as 2nd nature whenever you need to pause for a while.

While you're waiting for the unit, I'd head over to the simucube forums and get reading up.

I'd recommend "exact-performance" user settings as they're the closest I've come to getting a realistic feeling in AC. I was even able to backport his settings to my SC1 and they work great.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Thanks! I joined the forum a little while ago. I'll check it out more when I get a little closer to seeing something. @EsxPaul had given me similar advice.

I've been spending most of my time in iRacing lately, but maybe I'll reinstall AC at some point.

 

[Lokpes]

That beeping and having to remember to arm the wheelbase every time really do seem like something they should fix. The Fanatec key in the back seems like a good solution by comparison.

The number of steps to get ready to drive just keeps growing.
This is what I do now.

Assuming my rig is configured for what I want to do, otherwise I need to convert from flight to driving or between 2 and 3 pedal layouts

1. Flip switch to provide power to ( computer & front base station & transducer amp )
2. Press computer on button
3. Turn on TV, switch to input 1
4. Flip dedicated switch to turn on 2nd base station
5. Plug Rig outlet into the wall. NLRv3 powers up, cooling fan for me powers up.
6. Press on button for the USB hub
7. Turn on the wheel hub
8. Startup SteamVR and make sure it's set to 120fps.
9. Verify the Audio is using the Index Headphones which don't show up as an option until SteamVR is started.

Woot!!!
The NLRv3 and SimHub software come up automatically and autoswitch between titles automatically !!!!!

10. Start up CrewChief, then click Activate.

*11. Then check SimHub to makes sure it is still activated because sometimes Crew Chief inactivates it.

*It seems like this hasn't been happening as much lately, so maybe this is fixed since the last update.

Now I'll need to turn on High torque setting for the SC2 and deal with beeping on top of that.

<sigh>

That is one of the reasons why i choose fanatec. i have look around for like 2 months now.
And i think that fanatec is the easy way to go.
maybe i'm wrong.
But seems like fanatec have a more plug and play solution.

 

[RCHeliguy]

That is one of the reasons why i choose fanatec. i have look around for like 2 months now.
And i think that fanatec is the easy way to go.
maybe i'm wrong.
But seems like fanatec have a more plug and play solution.

Fanatec absolutely does have features the SimuCube lacks.
1. Physical full torque enabling key, vs having another step every time before you play.
2. Cordless wireless solution that doesn't require batteries and also powers a wheel, so you have no USB cords dangling around, or have to deal with batteries and recharging.
3. Easy one USB plug connectivity if you are using Fanatec controls.
4. Compatible with a large number of Fanatec wheels.

Those are all useful features that are obvious.

The SimuCube has a few features as well, and they are all indicative of quality, but are less tangible.
1. Absolutely rigid wheel mount with no flex. Whether that matters to you or not is going to vary.
2. Higher quality power supply(s).
3. Does not require a cooling fan.
4. Compatible with a large number of high end wheels without requiring a $200 adapter to make them work. ( Although a $50 quick release plate set for each wheel )

Basically if the Fanatec PS never fails that it is sort of a don't care. I never noticed the flex in my Fanatec wheel mount until I tried to wiggle my wheel around. I already have a fan blowing on me generating noise, so the wheelbase fan wouldn't bother me.

The thing that pushed me over the edge was that I wanted high end wheels that cost nearly as much or more than the wheelbase does. If I was perfectly happy with my existing Fanatec wheels, I think I would have gotten a DD2.

 

[RCHeliguy]

ruh roh... my wife just asked me, "How much more can you do to that rig?" That is a warning sign.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

 

[Lokpes]

Fanatec absolutely does have features the SimuCube lacks.
1. Physical full torque enabling key, vs having another step every time before you play.
2. Cordless wireless solution that doesn't require batteries and also powers a wheel, so you have no USB cords dangling around, or have to deal with batteries and recharging.
3. Easy one USB plug connectivity if you are using Fanatec controls.
4. Compatible with a large number of Fanatec wheels.

Those are all useful features that are obvious.

The SimuCube has a few features as well, and they are all indicative of quality, but are less tangible.
1. Absolutely rigid wheel mount with no flex. Whether that matters to you or not is going to vary.
2. Higher quality power supply(s).
3. Does not require a cooling fan.
4. Compatible with a large number of high end wheels without requiring a $200 adapter to make them work. ( Although a $50 quick release plate set for each wheel )

Basically if the Fanatec PS never fails that it is sort of a don't care. I never noticed the flex in my Fanatec wheel mount until I tried to wiggle my wheel around. I already have a fan blowing on me generating noise, so the wheelbase fan wouldn't bother me.

The thing that pushed me over the edge was that I wanted high end wheels that cost nearly as much or more than the wheelbase does. If I was perfectly happy with my existing Fanatec wheels, I think I would have gotten a DD2.

That is something that push me away from simucube2 pro.

Price for the wheels, and long delivery time because is "hand made" special.

So yeah, for me the fanatec make more sense. + that i dont want to expande the extra wheel base price in on wheel.

And i wanna sit, turn on the pc and play.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

And ladies and gentlemen, The Great Battle of Confirmation Biases begins.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I don't think that is confirmation bias. What you have are valid reasons to pick either of the wheelbases depending on your priorities.

There is nothing wrong with the Fanatec DD wheelbases and if I didn't want higher end wheels, I would have gotten one. I "was" perfectly happy with my Fanatec wheels. I upgraded the shifters and they worked well.

I was smitten by the quality and design of PSE GT3 rim and that pushed me over the edge. Built like a piece of rock comes to mind. Absolute quality.

You are a fan of the Ascher racing wheels, which also look to be very high quality and bought in to direct drive before the Fanatec DD was released. So given you were happy with your wheel and were already dealing with a coiled USB, it was pretty obvious what direction you would go in.

I think it's great that there is competition and that Fanatec brought GOOD ideas to the direct drive market place.

 

[Lokpes]

I don't think that is confirmation bias. What you have are valid reasons to pick either of the wheelbases depending on your priorities.

There is nothing wrong with the Fanatec DD wheelbases and if I didn't want higher end wheels, I would have gotten one. I "was" perfectly happy with my Fanatec wheels. I upgraded the shifters and they worked well.

I was smitten by the quality and design of PSE GT3 rim and that pushed me over the edge. Built like a piece of rock comes to mind. Absolute quality.

You are a fan of the Ascher racing wheels, which also look to be very high quality and bought in to direct drive before the Fanatec DD was released. So given you were happy with your wheel and were already dealing with a coiled USB, it was pretty obvious what direction you would go in.

I think it's great that there is competition and that Fanatec brought GOOD ideas to the direct drive market place.

I agree toltally with you. For something like one month i was like hell yeah, i will go with simucube 2 pro.
and buy cube controls wheels, the gt pro omp, and the formula pro.

It was all set.

i Have made an account in the granite devices.

But then i start to calculate. and think and over think.

****. this hobby is not the only thing I do i my life so.

yeah the extra money would not be wort in my reality.

So fanatec made much more sense.

 

[RaceNut]

I don't think that is confirmation bias. What you have are valid reasons to pick either of the wheelbases depending on your priorities.

There is nothing wrong with the Fanatec DD wheelbases and if I didn't want higher end wheels, I would have gotten one. I "was" perfectly happy with my Fanatec wheels. I upgraded the shifters and they worked well.

I was smitten by the quality and design of PSE GT3 rim and that pushed me over the edge. Built like a piece of rock comes to mind. Absolute quality.

You are a fan of the Ascher racing wheels, which also look to be very high quality and bought in to direct drive before the Fanatec DD was released. So given you were happy with your wheel and were already dealing with a coiled USB, it was pretty obvious what direction you would go in.

I think it's great that there is competition and that Fanatec brought GOOD ideas to the direct drive market place.

I'm still waiting to see how the Telemetry-FFB works out with both SimuCube and Fanatec. GD has always been very careful about making statements about what they believe they can accomplish in that area. Fanatec on the other hand, has made some bold statements about competing (or exceeding) directly with SimXperience, easier said than done though.

In the meantime, I'm content with my SimuCube1 system and am not likely to upgrade without very good telemetry support.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

@RaceNut, what is a good use of telemetry for steering wheels except some simcade titles with bad FFB that are probably not worth your time. Does AC need it, or rFactor2?
And what are the chances that with bad FFB they have good telemetry?

 

[Apelsin Elise]

And what are the chances that with bad FFB they have good telemetry?

This.

 

[Mr Latte]

I see the Fanatec Podium R300 Wheel Rim and Podium Hub are both listed as available for 30th SEPT So we perhaps could assume by that time, the full software should be ready?

 

[RCHeliguy]

I agree toltally with you. For something like one month i was like hell yeah, i will go with simucube 2 pro.
and buy cube controls wheels, the gt pro omp, and the formula pro.

It was all set.

i Have made an account in the granite devices.

But then i start to calculate. and think and over think.

****. this hobby is not the only thing I do i my life so.

yeah the extra money would not be wort in my reality.

So fanatec made much more sense.

That is another issue. Everyone has a financial pain point. The SC2 + the PSE GT3 wheel is about $2600. Then I needed a mount for my chassis and power cable extentions. Then I need to fabricate something to secure the wheel's USB plug to my frame.

So not only more expensive, but also additional pain points.

I could have just dropped a DD2 wheelbase onto my rig and been done.

Like I said I don't see this as a simple decision. You have to weigh in your priorities.

 

[Spinelli]

@RaceNut, what is a good use of telemetry for steering wheels except some simcade titles with bad FFB that are probably not worth your time. Does AC need it, or rFactor2?
And what are the chances that with bad FFB they have good telemetry?

Being able to adjust FFB via telemetry can make a big difference. For example, I tried AMS1 with the Accuforce and experimented with quite a few settings. One thing I tried is disabling all (or almost all) game FFB and using FFB from the Accuforce and basing it on lateral Gs; t made the FFB act a bit more realistically, smoothly, and controllable during oversteer than the default AMS FFB.

I think the option of some telemtery FFB editing can be beneficial for a number of reasons especially for DD users:
- every game has different FFB and we all have our preferences of what we like and don't like
- real-life "FFB" is fundamentally different to our games' FFB because real-life "FFB" is passive/reactive while our games' FFB is active
- real-life FFB is based on a true torque force while our wheels are using speed/position
- all games as of this writing are still limited to using a very old FFB system called Microsoft DirectInput. This is a very primitive FFB design from the 1990s

The power, speed, acceleration, etc. of DD motors expose the shortcomings of the above list (I have been vocal about this for around 3 years since I got my DD wheel, other FFB "gurus" are starting to confirm what I've been saying all along).

Another thing I mentioned to the Simucube guys at Granity is a filter kind of like their static force reduction filter but only for SAT in order to help reduce unrealistic SAT FFB DD users experience. Granity said this is something they've been looking at but unfortunately it'll be extremely difficult (if not impossible) to do so without telemetry.

Another thing that would be fantastic - and it's surprisingly not available in the Accuforce - is front tyre slip filters. in the rFactor 1 FFB file, there are around 3 different front-grip FFB settings you can tune which I loved and were, by far, the most important FFB aspect for me to setup whenever I got a new wheel.

Engine revs is good too. In real race cars, the steering wheel vibrating is extremely noticeable (the entire chassis for that matter). I don't think any sim truly simulates engine-vibrations so these are already "fake" effects anyways (like in rFactor 2 and some other sims). I like putting these vibrations quite strong as it much more closely mimics my real-life racing experience than sims with default FFB. I bet tactile transducers can replicate this better and therefore we don't need the effect from the FFB but I still haven't setup any of my transducers so I'm not sure

The only thing I would recommend Granity and Fanatec do if they go this route is to keep it simple and also make sure the U.I. is very intuitive. The Accuforce SimXperience program is incredibly messy, unintuitive, and full of bugs.

DD wheels need different filters and such as their extreme power and responsiveness exposes a lot of the limitations of current FFB technology.

 

[Hiro Abe]

Seriously fascinating post @Spinelli! A bit disheartening to learn that ffb is based on pretty stagnated tech. I can certainly understand how dd wheels can amplify the shortcomings you mentioned (especially when you have real world experience).