Pls help:) I stuck at improving my time

[Dmitry Kariakin]

hey guys , really asking for some help.
I'm trying to improve my hotlaping time everyday but I really stuck 4 example my best time at Spa with z4 Gt3 is only 2:21.1 and I really can't do better after the hundreds of laps. Please if anyone here has a ghost car or ingame replay video and the setup for any gt2/gt3 car drop me send me to help and learn to be better driver. I would appreciate that and million times thanks to you people in advance

 

[Kek700]

Quote.

The brake bias setting alone is a big deal to get cornering speed as it is dependent to the tyres temperature. You can brake harder at a certain temperature depending of the brake bias.
You have to abuse the grip to the maximum, while a real car would simply spin out while in
the game it still holds on.

Quote.

Since the sim is in a perfect world & not everything is simulated. You get away with a move that
will never work in real life.

.........

This sort of makes a lot of sense, i drive the simulator exactly as i would drive one of
my competition cars from years past.

Cheers Mr Deap.


I will still perserve in my pursuit of having an exact understanding of how the
fast guys are so quick. All i really understand at this point in time is their average speed
around the circuit is higher than most

 

[Rami]

Quote.

The brake bias setting alone is a big deal to get cornering speed as it is dependent to the tyres temperature. You can brake harder at a certain temperature depending of the brake bias.
You have to abuse the grip to the maximum, while a real car would simply spin out while in
the game it still holds on.

Quote.

Since the sim is in a perfect world & not everything is simulated. You get away with a move that
will never work in real life.

.........

This sort of makes a lot of sense, i drive the simulator exactly as i would drive one of
my competition cars from years past.

Cheers Mr Deap.


I will still perserve in my pursuit of having an exact understanding of how the
fast guys are so quick. All i really understand at this point in time is their average speed
around the circuit is higher than most

This might also be the reason why I'm comfortable in braking deep into corners, because I have roadracing background and with those you brake really deep into corners...

 

[PhilS13]

The issue is real driving technique make you slower in AC.

You have the release the brake like releasing the clutch when cornering. You can trail brake extremely deep in the corners. There are all sort of exploit in simulator. Real life driving technique will make you fast in game at a certain point, but you can't beat elitism driving that way.

The always entertaining MrDeap everyone.

The amount of excuses you have come up with in the last years.

Guess what? The best would use ZERO trailbraking and you'd still be 3 seconds off. Like there are several seconds gained in a trailbraking phase...Yeah right. Keep it up with your crappy advice, funny to read as usual.

 

[Kek700]

Well i suppose that brought an end to this article, no one will dare continue it now.

 

[Nico Major]

Some time ago I came accross a very nice video on YouTube. I already posted it in another thread but I think it did not get the attention it deserves because the discussion there was already over and people did not look there any more.
The guy compares a lap of himself to a lap of the winner of this race and points out things like "use whole track", "late appex", "setting up for accelleration out of a turn" and "preparing for last turn in combinations of consecutive turns". Some points are well known (and quite often done badly anyways).

 

[Mr Deap]

The always entertaining MrDeap everyone.

The amount of excuses you have come up with in the last years.

Guess what? The best would use ZERO trailbraking and you'd still be 3 seconds off. Like there are several seconds gained in a trailbraking phase...Yeah right. Keep it up with your crappy advice, funny to read as usual.

It's entertaining every time you come.

Not exaggerating the trail braking till the apex is like running the wrong PSI on road cars. You can do it in all the corners.

There's another method, like lowering the optimal air temp to exploit the tyre compound which is an easy way.

 

[Nico Major]

Not exaggerating the trail braking till the apex is like running the wrong PSI on road cars. You can do it in all the corners.

I don't want to interfere with your little "duell" but I have a honest question regarding trail braking.

I read somewhere that in iRacing you need to unrealistically trail brake (never driven iRacing myself) and you are stating the same for AC now. Now I'm asking myself whether:
1. Do you (and other people making this statement) think that the correct and in real live fastes way of braking is to brake in a straight line and start turning in after braking is done?
OR
2. You think that competitive racers in real live use off-course trail braking, but in AC it is totally off? In that case I'd be sincerely interested in what the differences between game and RL are. I'm aware that simulations generally lack some aspects that have to be considered in RL, but I stand to be convinced that the difference here is significant.

Remarks regarding point 1:
If you think that straight line braking is the way it is done in real live then I think thats wrong. It may be advised in the beginning and the useful amount of trail braking may vary between car classes, but a competitive racer can't do without it (IMO).
Just search the internet or look there:
https://www.windingroad.com/article...e-or-not-to-trail-brake-that-is-the-question/
https://driver61.com/uni/trail-braking/
(Pretty old Skip Barber video. From minute 25 onwards they talk about braking.)

 

[Rami]

I do not know about real race cars, but atleast with our crappy saloon endurance car I can trailbrake pretty well, and deep into corners

 

[Mr Deap]

Here a perfect example of what will happen.

 

[Rami]

Here a perfect example of what will happen.

You serious with comparing drift car to race car?

 

[Nico Major]

Here a perfect example of what will happen.

I'm not really sure what you specifically mean? Do you want to point out, that trail braking induces massive oversteer? Well - it can - and actually that's the point of trail braking. You want to keep weight at the front of the car and make the car turn better. How much weight you want or you can handle depends on the characteristics of the car, the setup and the desired result.

 

[PhilS13]

I'm not really sure what you specifically mean? Do you want to point out, that trail braking induces massive oversteer? Well - it can - and actually that's the point of trail braking. You want to keep weight at the front of the car and make the car turn better. How much weight you want or you can handle depends on the characteristics of the car, the setup and the desired result.

There is a form of inherent stability in trailbraking in AC and other sims. IMO coming from slightly underestimated combined forces capacity in the tyres.

Nothing way off, nothing worth calling it an exploit, nothing worth giving this as an advice to someone looking for 5 seconds a lap.

MrDeap is on a long term quest of explaining his own lack of speed and has been leaving little piles of poop logic and misinformation with every new excuse he came up with. It's sad but funny at the same time so might as well enjoy.

 

[Mr Deap]

@PhilS13
The way you can obtain cornering speed while trail braking in AC & other sim's is a form of exploit. You even admit yourself & try to find an excuse I'm spreading misinformation.

For most player, they just need to adjust a bit & exploit those. They'll be up to speed.

@Nico Major
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how-to-trail-brake-and-why-itll-make-you-a-faster-driver/
"There is a fine balance when learning how to trail the brakes into a corner. If you turn in with too much brake pressure, the rear tyres will unload, leading to time-sapping oversteer. If you use too little brake, the car will push on. Thankfully it’s fairly straightforward to rectify these problems.

If the car is oversteering on entry use less brake pressure and peel off the pedal in a more gentle fashion. This will keep more weight over the rear and will allow you to get on the throttle quicker at the exit. If the car is suffering from understeer, use more brake on the way in and apply pressure all the way to the apex."

 

[Nico Major]

@PhilS13 @Mr Deap
Thanks for the info regarding the in game behavior and your opinion on it.

@Mr Deap
I completely agree on all that is said in the linked article and your quote from there.
Maybe I might add that there can be another reason for understeer. If you demand too much from the front tires by beeing too fast, braking too hard and steering to much you are leaving the traction circle and the car just pushes forward. Following such a condition there is, however, a big risk of sudden oversteer when the front regains grip. (Saw this myself a couple of winters ago, when an old lady made a nice 180 in front of me .)

 

[Dmitry Kariakin]

Hey guys again! Thank u so much for your tips and support! It really helped me and yesterday I finally improved my time up to 2 seconds with BMW Z4 gt3 and Now I run 2:20:2xx ! It's still not fast but I improved due to your help

 

[HypoToad]

Hey guys again! Thank u so much for your tips and support! It really helped me and yesterday I finally improved my time up to 2 seconds with BMW Z4 gt3 and Now I run 2:20:2xx ! It's still not fast but I improved due to your help

2 seconds is a huge improvement, congratulations, I would be happy with that time. Not that I know a great deal about this but I find the smoother you go through the corners and the faster you get on the gas the greatest time is saved. When I only had a controller I used to roar up to corners, slam the brakes on, then crawl out and wonder why my times were so bad. But since getting a wheel I slow down into the corner and start putting the gas on as soon as I can after the apex.

 

[Mr Deap]

@Dmitry Kariakin Can you provide a replay file again. The closer you get to the fastest time, the easier is to see where it can be improved.

 

[Nico Major]

@Dmitry Kariakin If you are going to post another replay, I'd suggest you also tell us about the track conditions (grip + temps; see bottom of the built-in app that shows the names and gaps of the drivers in front of and behind you), amount of fuel used and post your setup too. I'd like to try a (hopefully) good lap with your setup and my setup in compareable conditions and see if we can come up with some specific or general conclusions/hints. Ofcourse, I'll provide my setup too.
We can also start without you uploading a replay. Just (roughly) conditions and setup is enough to begin with.
DISCLAIMER: I don't consider myself an alien-driver and actually - I'm not! I think my driving in generall is acceptable and I love stuff like this (fiddling around, investigating).

 

[Mr Deap]

A setup would be nice. I will showcase what can be improved within the run or setup & see what can be improved within my knowledge.

 

[Mr Deap]

I did try a bit out of interest, a high 2:18 with this combo at 26C with Soft Slick, but my average lap time was more around 2:19.7**, due to the front tires mostly overheating during mid lap. If I would run at colder air temperature, I would probably get a low 2:18 or in the 2:17 within my current ability

The best lap in "pro rank" on RSR is a low 2:19.

The WR is a high 2:15, but done in multiplayer. There's 2 reason for the high disparity of time.
1. Multiplayer=you can draft
2. Done at air temp of 20 which allow Soft Slick tires to perform better overall.

If OP can do a low 2:20 at 26C at pro rank setting, he can easily get around the 2:18 at lower air temperature such as 20~14C.

.