Pimax VR HMD review NDA embargo lifts: not great news for sim racers

[Mascot]

Testers are now allowed to release reviews of the final hardware, and while the Pimax units are undoubtedly a step forward for VR (higher resolution, wider FoV), the bad news seems to be that they're likely to struggle to provide adequate framerates in sim racing (even with powerful 8700k/1080ti combos). Doubts also remain about the effectiveness of Pimax's reprojection/ASW solution.

Assetto Corsa benchmarks at about 1hr 15 mins timestamp:

More reviews:

Foveated rendering can't come quickly enough, it seems.
The wider FoV for better peripheral vision in sim racing is was what got me excited about the Pimax in the first place, but it seems like PC hardware might need a couple more generations to adequately power the displays (or HMD tech needs to find efficiency solutions) before sim racing can truly benefit from this. Maybe one card per eye is required?

Anyone here backing the Pimax Kickstarter or getting ready to preorder?

 

[Mascot]

Yeah I'm wondering if it's worth the upgrade. If it smooths out the experience in VR and also makes up for some of the poor optimisation in some of the mod tracks we run it would certainly be worth it to me. Also, even just for running AI cars while practicing it could prove beneficial. I'll have to find some comparisons and see.

@Steve D has convinced me to investigate overclocking my 6600k. It looks pretty straightforward to get a jump from 3.5GHz to 4.5GHz (lol - it's deffo going to burn a hole through the earth's crust, I just know it) so that should hopefully give me the overhead I need to smooth a few creases out. My wallet will be very pleased if it works.

Can't say I'm not filled with trepidation though...

 

[Steve D]

@Steve D has convinced me to investigate overclocking my 6600k. It looks pretty straightforward to get a jump from 3.5GHz to 4.5GHz (lol - it's deffo going to burn a hole through the earth's crust, I just know it) so that should hopefully give me the overhead I need to smooth a few creases out. My wallet will be very pleased if it works.

Can't say I'm not filled with trepidation though...

Yeah I'm wondering if it's worth the upgrade. If it smooths out the experience in VR and also makes up for some of the poor optimisation in some of the mod tracks we run it would certainly be worth it to me. Also, even just for running AI cars while practicing it could prove beneficial. I'll have to find some comparisons and see.

Chaps,

Check this out!! Could be right up your street.

https://www.racedepartment.com/threads/cpu-ugrade.159354/

@DucFreak appears to be the man to speak to.

 

[RobertR1]

Overclocking is pretty

@Steve D has convinced me to investigate overclocking my 6600k. It looks pretty straightforward to get a jump from 3.5GHz to 4.5GHz (lol - it's deffo going to burn a hole through the earth's crust, I just know it) so that should hopefully give me the overhead I need to smooth a few creases out. My wallet will be very pleased if it works.

Can't say I'm not filled with trepidation though...

It's straight forward. Just up the multiplier and make sure you have a decent aftermarket cooler.

My 2600k has been running at 4.6ghz since the day I bought it with a HyperEvo 212 cooler and never had an issue.

 

[anton_Chez]

HyperEvo 212 cooler

I've been running one of these since 2011. It's the ONLY piece of kit that I have from my orginal build when I made the jump. It will get you 4.5Ghz easy in terms of temps. You individual processor may not like going that high but chances are you will AT LEAST get 4.2 - 4.3Ghz without a problem. Mine is not a great overclocker and it gets me 4.5Ghz stable. If you can't be assed with stability testing, benching for 24 hours at a time like I do when I change CPU's then put it to 4Ghz and call it a day. You won't trouble a thing and you won't even need to mess with voltages. The auto voltage should be fine at that speed.

@DucFreak appears to be the man to speak to.

I'll go have a read of that now. Thanks mate

 

[anton_Chez]

NDA lifted on the 2000 series cards. 20-25% performance gain over 1000 series cards, wait for it....

for 70% cost increase.

Good job Nvidia. Now I just need Pimax to support SLI and I'll go grab a second 1080Ti used and won't bother with graphics cards for 3 years.

 

[Mascot]

I've been running one of these since 2011. It's the ONLY piece of kit that I have from my orginal build when I made the jump.

I might pick one up if there's room in my case for it - I don't know if you remember but I'm running a Bitfenix Prodigy Mini-ITX chassis. Things are a little cramped in there.

 

[RobertR1]

NDA lifted on the 2000 series cards. 20-25% performance gain over 1000 series cards, wait for it....

for 70% cost increase.

Good job Nvidia. Now I just need Pimax to support SLI and I'll go grab a second 1080Ti used and won't bother with graphics cards for 3 years.

If your'e already upset at nvidia then the reality that SLI support is going to die out is not going to make you more happy. SLI is already a back burner consideration and has been for some time.

I'd stick with a single 1080ti until you feel there's a worthy product that delivers. I just don't see a light at the end of the SLI tunnel.

 

[anton_Chez]

If your'e already upset at nvidia then the reality that SLI support is going to die out is not going to make you more happy.

I'm sure that was a pretty convenient fact considering that now the only real upgrade path is to buy a new card, complete with NONE of the features implemented that it's being sold on.

I owned SLI 970's and they were actually awesome. It was great too that the 970 came with the 500MB of useless VRAM out of it's 4 'total', so SLI users were super looked after in that regard too, seeing as every MB of VRAM counts in that config. I guess instead of just lying about specs and being caught about it, they decided it was more financially viable to drop an enthusiast feature used for generations of cards. Instead of double the performance now, we get double the cost.

I'm happy to keep the 1080Ti. SLI would be wonderful for the Pimax as there would be NO trouble super sampling the hell out of it and still hitting that 90hz refresh.

Funny how they gave the developers the ability to implement SLI capabilites in their games via DX12, then removed the support from the actual driver and finally just dropped support for it completely next generation. Can't wait to see how many games support DLSS seeing as every time developers are left to their own devices re implementing hardware tech it seems to work out perfectly.

 

[RobertR1]

VR benchmark:

 

[Mascot]

Need to see some sim racing VR benches.
Actually, no I don't. I'm weak.

 

[anton_Chez]

I look forward to improving lap times in Futuremark. There's actually never been an issue with synthetic benchmarks from either vendor in the past, either

Try as you might, no one is going to win me over. The reviews are also sickening. "Amazing" performance from the 2080Ti, 25% faster than 1080Ti. 2080 on par with it's 2 year old counterpart. Let's face it, the 2080Ti is the Titan in this lineup, at least that's what you're paying for and then some. 10 series let you have a 1070 that beat the previous Titan. Tell me I'm wrong. I was EXCITED back then. Now, we pushing tech. Why? Why not. People will pre order hardware that doesn't even have any software to take advantage of it yet.

But anyway, I look forward to being right in 12 months, yet again. When you lose all optimism for the world, you see things pretty clearly.

 

[Jeremy Ford]

Actually according to these Futuremark results that's a 41% increase if I'm not mistaken for the 2080ti over the 1080ti? Considering how hard VR dumps on the GPU that's a pretty strong increase. But yeah, that godawful price!

 

[Tummie555]

This is quite alarming picture. With such low settings and resolution it can't hit 90fps on AC bench?
What's wrong?
View attachment 270155

These are my settings for Odyssey, I am using 250% SS which is 2 x 2253x2816, and it runs bench at constant 90fps without even breaking a sweat. 1080Ti with i7-5930K
Is it some software optimization problem?

The german dude is running AC with post processing on. Clearly not knowing what he's doing. He's missing out on at least 20 frames per second, while the image is worse. That Sewviver guy did the same test, but with the correct VR settings for AC. Reaching 90 fps all the time, and with the 8k, you just need to reach 80fps. Really weird no one pointed this out in this thread.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

The german dude is running AC with post processing on. Clearly not knowing what he's doing. He's missing out on at least 20 frames per second, while the image is worse. That Sewviver guy did the same test, but with the correct VR settings for AC. Reaching 90 fps all the time, and with the 8k, you just need to reach 80fps. Really weird no one pointed this out in this thread.

I do too, with GBW Suite, on max, check my settings in the link.
Works like a charm.
Why should I miss on visual fidelity if my system can handle it.

Something else is going on, with his settings and that resolution it should fly at 90fps.

 

[Tummie555]

I do too, with GBW Suite, on max, check my settings in the link.
Works like a charm.
Why should I miss on visual fidelity if my system can handle it.

Something else is going on, with his settings and that resolution it should fly at 90fps.

Looks like you're using content manager? Maybe that's what makes teh difference, I should give it another try, I always thought it looked way better without pp. Even after kunos patched it (so i didn't look that blurry anymore). Preferred the high ss over the pp anytime.

 

[anton_Chez]

I don't think PP completely demolished frame rate that badly. You might get some frames back if you have a mid tier GPU but the fastest cards shouldn't be affected much at all.

The way that PP works in VR is also weird I think. I think it's disabled even if you have it ticked in Content Manager if you have the wrong preset selected. I think Oculus only pays attention to the 'default' selection. I've only just got back into the Oculus so my memory could be failing me but I'm pretty sure that's how it was. I've been able to leave it on and achieve 90hz with 1.5 SS and MSAA 2x so it can't be that crippling. Unless it was ignoring it completely, as I was saying above.

I agree that the SS is important, but once you get to a certain point (1.5 for my eyes) you actually don't see that much benefit apart from warping kicking in and an overall worse time than if you had under 1.5 selected. 1 to 1.5 is massive, 1.5 to 2 is barely noticeable to me. The biggest thing I reckon is the shimmering lines and fences and the distraction it causes. Once you get rid of those the graphics settings could almost all be on low and you'd still have a pleasant experience.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

AC is only using default.ini PP in VR regardless of selection. If you use CM and checked "override default PP in Rift mode" it will do just that, temporary replacing default.ini with selected PP.
Grab Peter's wonderful GBW Suite it has some optimization for VR and looks drop dead gorgeous flat screen or VR.
https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/good-and-bad-weather-suite.19484/
There is little reason to go over 1.5 per side SS, depending on HMD and title it may make things look worse.
Keep in mind that SteamVR SS is calculated as area, not per side, so 1.5x (per side) Rift is 225% SteamVR, I am using 250% myself (my GPU allows that) and it looks clean as a whistle on Odyssey. 90fps too with PP filters etc.

 

[Steve D]

AC is only using default.ini PP in VR regardless of selection. If you use CM and checked "override default PP in Rift mode" it will do just that, temporary replacing default.ini with selected PP.
.

Interesting stuff Andrew but where is this option "override default PP in Rift mode" in CM.

I can't see it for the life of me! (Using full version)

Thanks!

 

[anton_Chez]

@Andrew_WOT I don't touch the Steam VR settings at all. I even use Oculus debug tool to force ASW off and override the SS for titles that don't have native Oculus support. They are basically Raceroom and rFactor 2. Raceroom is a weird one with the way it sets its default SS (normally games will start at 1.0 but Raceroom defaults to 1.5 apparently). For this one I just include the SS in the launch command in Steam and it works OK. Seems to have problems with that game when overriding in debug tool.

Should I be tweaking the Steam VR pixel density / super sampling slider? I basically don't touch settings in Steam VR (I actually hate Steam VR it seems so buggy and unfinished) and try to always use the Oculus debug tool. I know that when I get the Pimax I am going to have to mess with it a little, according to the reviews. It's so confusing. SweViver had his Steam slider at like 30-40% which he reckons is fine, but pixel density slider in PiTool set at 1.0 minimum. It's all very strange the way each thing interacts with the other and I wish that there was just one setting you could change to make a difference.

 

[anton_Chez]

@Steve D I am pretty sure I've seen it somewhere in there. Maybe try in the VIEW tab on the left, rather than VIDEO? I know it's a checkbox that I've seen before.