F1 2011 Physics different in Qualifying?

[Lenard Schaeffler]

So I am playing and seem to burn up the track in qualifying, the car sticks, I hit my marks and am qualifying a full second ahead of second place, get to the race situation and find that I am having to hold off throttle for way longer, not carry the speed through the corners and generally take corners like there is a patch of ice at the apex, I dont understand how I can blow everyone's doors off in qualifying and barely hold people off during the race, I understand the weight differece due to fuel, and that I am running on tires that may not be warmed or in the best shape, but even toward the end of the race, when I am on warmed up options and a low fuel load I still cannot run the car to the edge that I can in qualifying, I guess it could just be pressure, but the car feels like a different machine completely. Am I the only one to experience this?

 

[Karl Fuss]

I am running 75% distance races at the moment and find that i can be at least 1 second faster in quali than in the race. I attribute it to tyre wear and fuel load.
I can generally do the same fast runs in Quali and Practice sessions. But never usually match those times in a race UNLESS i have an accident with a few lap to go and strap on some fresh tyres. Then it becomes easier to match the Quali times.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Two points here
1. Tires at the Beginning of stints will have more fuel load than Qualy Fuel load and when you are at almost 3 or 4 laps to the end they almost loosing their Best grip level
2. DRS was most important factor in Qualification and you can't use it through out the race except in the DRS zones so you can't carry the speed in Race which you had in Qualification
If you made a 1:22 in Australia Q3 and in race you can do around 1:24 or 1:25 according to Traffic and may be you can go 1:23

 

[Tom]

It's based on your fuel load, I have to concur. It's only natural that you won't be able to push as hard until your car is lighter. Usually with about 15-20 laps to go (speaking of 100% distance) it's really working well.

 

[Lenard Schaeffler]

I guess that's my issue is even at the end of the race I still feel like I am driving on egg shells so to speak.

I thought about the DRS subject as well but dismissed it quickly as you would expect the opposite reaction, corners I am flying out of with no down force due to DRS in quali, I am struggling to find grip on with no DRS in race. It seems counter intuitive. But I guess it as well could be chalked up to additional fuel weight.

So I guess the question is, how to deal with that added weight, because I am having to creep through at absurd speeds and the AI is flying, also worth noting I didn't have this issue in Austrailia, but the second race in sepang I just can't seem to hold it together

Thanks
-LS

 

[Karl Fuss]

maybe it's set up related... do you want to post your Sepang set up? There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum that could offer advice if they know what set up you're using.
It \lso might be helpful to know what distance you are running and if you are using any assists.

 

[Kristian Nenov]

So I am playing and seem to burn up the track in qualifying, the car sticks, I hit my marks and am qualifying a full second ahead of second place, get to the race situation and find that I am having to hold off throttle for way longer, not carry the speed through the corners and generally take corners like there is a patch of ice at the apex, I dont understand how I can blow everyone's doors off in qualifying and barely hold people off during the race, I understand the weight differece due to fuel, and that I am running on tires that may not be warmed or in the best shape, but even toward the end of the race, when I am on warmed up options and a low fuel load I still cannot run the car to the edge that I can in qualifying, I guess it could just be pressure, but the car feels like a different machine completely. Am I the only one to experience this?

That's very strange. I usually beat my qualify time on the race. On the race you have a lot more grip. You should give us some more info tho. Assists, race %, team, setup. But it's usually the other way around. Especially in the wet. The grip graduates through the weekend. P1<P2<P3<Q1<Q2<Q3<Race. CM has made it this way. You probably get too tired at the end of the race or something.

 

[Lenard Schaeffler]

Car
Force India

Circuit
Sepang

Distance
50%

Aerodynamics
Front Wing Angle: 7
Rear Wing Angle: 6

Braking
Balance: F 45% - R 55%
Pressure: High
Brake Size:

Balance
Front Anti-Roll Bar: 7
Rear Anti-Roll Bar: 7

Suspension
Front Ride Height: 2
Rear Ride Height: 2
Front Spring Stiffness: 11
Rear Spring Stiffness: 11

Gearbox
Dont know off the top of my head

 

[Kristian Nenov]

Well, a lot understeer with this setup. Why do you use 7/7 anti roll bars? 7/7 = tons of understeer. =/

 

[Gavin Hendley]

Is this also a career race? as force India would be lacking some R&D packages which also make the car feel more of a handful to GP mode. Also gears are important if you have high gears they work well with DRS in Qualy but in a race on high fuel you'll be slower to accelerate. ARB try 6F-11R car should feel more planted in the fast corners.

 

[David O'Reilly]

Need the rest of your setup to help you (cambers and toe in).
Aero looks unbalanced and springs too stiff. Turn 6/7 at Sepang needs more rear wing than front.Only way I imagine you can get through there is with TCS on? without it you would have wild throttle oversteer there.
If your cambers are maxed you will be losing mid corner grip too.
Happy to give more suggestions if can see the rest.
You can get away with poor setup on options and low fuel.
Better to do your setup testing on high fuel and primes.

Re Quali: agree as posted above. Mix 3 Unlimited DRS, KERS in run up to start finish and in the flying lap all help, and when on low fuel in race you are on worn tyres.
AI also seem to be a little less impacted by changing fuel loads. So a bit faster at first and then a bit slower than you at the end. If you can fight them off till 1/3 distance you should be ok but you need a better setup.

Show me yours and Ill show you mine!

 

[Lenard Schaeffler]

Ok I will look into my setup and grab the rest of it to post

David - No, TCS, ABS and all other assists are off (except corner only racing line)

 

[Lenard Schaeffler]

Seems if I mess with the roll bars and spring stiffness I lose 3-4 seconds a lap, switching up the wing to have less in the front more in the back seems to help the car handle better, but I lose massive time if I deviate from my "strange" setup.

Was wondering, could the difference in speed in race conditions have to do with wing settings, I find that especially on high speed corners, when I run practice laps without DRS I have a ton more trouble making corners, especially high speed corners, as if without the additional speed/downforce from the DRS I am not getting my aero grip...

 

[Kristian Nenov]

Seems if I mess with the roll bars and spring stiffness I lose 3-4 seconds a lap, switching up the wing to have less in the front more in the back seems to help the car handle better, but I lose massive time if I deviate from my "strange" setup.

Was wondering, could the difference in speed in race conditions have to do with wing settings, I find that especially on high speed corners, when I run practice laps without DRS I have a ton more trouble making corners, especially high speed corners, as if without the additional speed/downforce from the DRS I am not getting my aero grip...

DRS decreases downforce.

I would use
10/11 wings
1/11 roll bars
1/1/11/11 suspension
gearbox: probably original
alignment: first two all the way to the left - 2nd two all the way to the right.
brakes: small/high/50:50%

 

[Lenard Schaeffler]

Im sorry, i worded that poorly, I know DRS decreases grip, but the moment it closes, I am going into a corner at a higher speed then if I dont use it, thus the aero grip is higher

 

[Steve Greenwood]

Grip is also dependant on the temperature, always check the weather screens before Q or the race, I agree with above 7/7 ARB why? Try Kristian's set-up for a base, 11/11 wings fastest for all but 2 circuits but can be too twitchy for some, so 10/11 will calm it down. 11/11 springs same try 11/10 too. Some cars like a higher front ARB but 1-11 works for most (all this is based on online not sure what works off line)

 

[Tom]

As Kristian said, grip will gradually improve.

P1<P2<P3<Q1<Q2<Q3<Race

So it's not really the temperature but more the session you're on.

 

[Steve Greenwood]

grip does improve over the sessions yes, but if its cool and cloudy there is definately less grip than warm and sunny, play multi sessions quali/race on random weather and you'll see for yourself. as always my usual disclaimer, this is online experience only don't know if its same offline

 

[Tom]

I really can't say I noticed, you might be right - no doubt. After all, one thing is certain: the grip system is at least a bit realistic.

 

[Steve Greenwood]

I'm really glad you slipped the word "bit" into that sentence