F1 2012 People understeering? Have a little read of this!

[Peter Evans]

Hey all.

So, I'm reading a lot about understeer at the moment.. I have a few pointers..

Firstly, I play with a pad, assists turned off in cockpit view. I understand that wheel users experience an entire set of problems I don't contend with. But, believe me, I race with wheel/pad users in no assist lobbies all day. It doesn't really matter what type of controller you're using in most cases.

If you are a wheel user, then you may have issues with your brake saturation, but I guarantee that more often than not it's a setup/driving problem.

For no assists it's vital that I have great brakes. If you're braking at a 100 metre board and you lock up for 10 metres of that distance, then it stands to reason you'll "understeer". The brakes are the most important thing for me for consistency. I've raced with an extremely well balanced car yet my brakes were iffy making the overall setup catastrophic. I usually race either low/standard with 52 R bias, or high/low 50/50. If I'm experiencing lock up problems in game, I find that by pushing the brake bias to the rear while you're racing helps out a great deal (although that might not be good practice for 50/100% races..

When I'm braking into a corner, most of the time I'm applying a minimal amount of braking pressure all the way to the apex. If I'm taking too much speed into a corner, offering 25% brake usually helps me shrug off that extra 10mph if needed. Having the ability to brake and turn is magical if you're able to master it. I must admit, I'm still learning, but I stay close to the racing line pretty much all of the time now. I had a little go with ABS, for a laugh. To be honest, I couldn't get the same feel over the car. It didn't matter what brakes I set, the way the car handled just felt unnatural. If you run with assists, or if controlling the car with your brakes isn't helping, then chances are you have fundamental setup issues.

The beauty of this game is that you're able to do what you want with the setup. If I have true understeer, or oversteer for that matter, I know I must alter my setup. I know it's not a problem with the game, and low and behold when I play with my setup my lap times generally plummet if I'm able to find the sweet spot.

Chances are you're running a setup that does not suit your driving style. You must forget about last year's game and spend some hard hours (like I and many other people have) finding a balance that suits you. The reason you're understeering could be the roll bars, the alignment. It could be that your 2nd gear is too large..

My biggest tip is that the braking distances are a lot longer in this game for some corners. Like 2011 setups, you must get rid of 2011 braking distances Most people I see "understeering" while spectating are simply taking way too much speed into the corner. I played 4 sprint races in a row last night. I won 3, and came 2nd in the other (due to a back marker waiting to take me out from the lead and me getting the resulting penalty). It was my first experience playing with traction control people this year. I obviously did well, but it was because everyone was off the track for most of the races. And that isn't people running into each other, it was mostly down to driver error.

Here is a setup for you to try. It would work on most tracks.. Have a go on Silverstone, or Suzuka..

Front wing 5
Rear wing 5

Braking low pressure, medium size 52 R bias

Balance 10-8
suspension 2-2 stiffness 8-9

Alignment 3.3 1.1 .08 .44

I use many setups, but I the above is my fail safe for tracks I haven't spent a lot of time on. If you're experiencing problems, please post what kind of setup you're running, what controller and what assists you're using.

The way I see it, is that if neither me or my friends are suffering with this "understeer" problem, then it's not a problem.

 

[Peter Hooper]

Nice post Peter, agree pretty much with all you have said there. I also run with similar brake settings to you (48/52) and find that pretty good for most tracks. Your front arb setting is much higher than I usually go with though and a buddy of mine also runs higher front arb so I'll give this a go next time i'm on track.

Cheers.

 

[Berserker99]

I find I am constantly having to set break bias to the rear. Even with 47/53 on the break bias or more the front end locks up. I have to be very gentle with the left trigger and given I am on a gamepad I don't have a large range of motion to play with. The neutral setup you have described are what I default to also but I just can't seem to be competitive without something a little less safe but ultimately faster. I normally run considerably more front wing than rear with a lower front ARB setting. That seems to give more front end control and stop the washing wide effect.

 

[Peter Evans]

Nice post Peter, agree pretty much with all you have said there. I also run with similar brake settings to you (48/52) and find that pretty good for most tracks. Your front arb setting is much higher than I usually go with though and a buddy of mine also runs higher front arb so I'll give this a go next time i'm on track.

Cheers.

Thanks other Peter I added you on xbox earlier.. PullThePlug666 is me.

And RE the ARB settings.. I agree with you. But, from my experience, I feel the alignment and roll bars have to be coupled to get the desired traction/handling. I wouldn't say either is better or worse, but if you have high roll bars they need to be coupled with the alignment. I've been trying 10 10 roll bars, and fine tuning the alignment settings. A setup a I tried earlier was 10 10 roll bar, the top three on alignment all the way to the right, the bottom one all the way to the left. I wasn't hugely fond of the setup, as the steering was uber crazy, but it gave me tremendous turn in. You'll have to let me join you for a race or two next time you're on

 

[Peter Evans]

I find I am constantly having to set break bias to the rear. Even with 47/53 on the break bias or more the front end locks up. I have to be very gentle with the left trigger and given I am on a gamepad I don't have a large range of motion to play with. The neutral setup you have described are what I default to also but I just can't seem to be competitive without something a little less safe but ultimately faster. I normally run considerably more front wing than rear with a lower front ARB setting. That seems to give more front end control and stop the washing wide effect.

I usually always have my break bias rear. On some tracks it burns my rear tyres, whatever though. It seems to work.It might be slower, but it's more reliable imo. There's probably a more extreme way to brake, but I'm not interested right now. I'll stick with the cautious approach

 

[Karl Fuss]

I started 2011 with forward brake bias for most of my setups and gradually moved it to the rear over the course of the last year. It made for a faster lap time in 2011 and sometimes helped turn in.
2012 is released and again i have started all my setups (so far, up to race 4) with a forward brake balance, btwn 53 and 55 usually.
I also like a high front ARB right now in this stage of my 2012 playing, but my rear tends to be a lot softer than the front.

Having said all this, I am 3 seconds slower usually than the Legend AI usually. I did a couple practice sessions at Bahrain last night and managed a 1:35.021, but the AI were getting 1:33.2xx - so It's looking like i'm still slow.

I will try this rear brake balance setup that you posted @Peter Evans in the next day or so.

I'm curious about the toe settings... I am usually running two clicks left from the default, but the above is two clicks right on the front and two clicks left on the rear.... how does that feel through the corners?

 

[Kristian Nenov]

You're right. Everyone is crying because of an understeer just because they're trying to take the corner with too much speed. The cars aren't understeering at all. I mean, they are understeering, but the grip is still way too much. And by understeering, most of the people mean, no front grip which is totally untrue. We can still do uber lap times, can't we? I bet 99% of the people will be incredibly slow in real life but they are fast here. Faster than a real F1 racer. So what do we get? No grip? I don't think so. The grip problem is only on low speed corners. Other than that, we are still having way too much grip.

 

[MS7XWDC]

crying ?? CM told us there is an understeer issue: http://community.codemasters.com/t5/F1-2012-General-Discussion/Regarding-Understeer/td-p/55942

 

[Peter Hooper]

crying ?? CM told us there is an understeer issue: http://community.codemasters.com/t5/F1-2012-General-Discussion/Regarding-Understeer/td-p/55942

He was referring to the demo in that piece he wrote.. the demo and the full release are miles apart!!

 

[Peter Evans]

I started 2011 with forward brake bias for most of my setups and gradually moved it to the rear over the course of the last year. It made for a faster lap time in 2011 and sometimes helped turn in.
2012 is released and again i have started all my setups (so far, up to race 4) with a forward brake balance, btwn 53 and 55 usually.
I also like a high front ARB right now in this stage of my 2012 playing, but my rear tends to be a lot softer than the front.

Having said all this, I am 3 seconds slower usually than the Legend AI usually. I did a couple practice sessions at Bahrain last night and managed a 1:35.021, but the AI were getting 1:33.2xx - so It's looking like i'm still slow.

I will try this rear brake balance setup that you posted @Peter Evans in the next day or so.

I'm curious about the toe settings... I am usually running two clicks left from the default, but the above is two clicks right on the front and two clicks left on the rear.... how does that feel through the corners?

I wish I had theory behind the setups.. I just find one with a nice balance, fine tune it and see how it goes. With the above setup I can lap Silverstone in the 1:31's.
You mentioned Bahrain.. What wings are you running there?

 

[Karl Fuss]

I wish I had theory behind the setups.. I just find one with a nice balance, fine tune it and see how it goes. With the above setup I can lap Silverstone in the 1:31's.
You mentioned Bahrain.. What wings are you running there?

I've left my wings at 2/1 for the last 3 circuits now I wish they made more of a difference, but i honestly can't see the point in putting them up right now because i'm always faster with them down. I'm probably compensating for it in some other way with my set up, but i've only had about 20 hours on the game so far and still trying to suss out the intricacies.

Using you're above set up as an example, have you tried all those settings with 1/1 wings instead of 5/5?

 

[Peter Evans]

I've left my wings at 2/1 for the last 3 circuits now I wish they made more of a difference, but i honestly can't see the point in putting them up right now because i'm always faster with them down. I'm probably compensating for it in some other way with my set up, but i've only had about 20 hours on the game so far and still trying to suss out the intricacies.

Using you're above set up as an example, have you tried all those settings with 1/1 wings instead of 5/5?

I have mate. It wasn't the same. Perhaps it's faster on the straights in race, but for out and out lap time, I'm much faster on qual/through the bends. I only try 1-1 wing if I have a specific car set up.. Try this out, for a laugh.. It's the incredible traction setup

wings 1-1
brakes, whatever you like
balance 11-11
ride height, whatever really, 2-2 works for me, front spring 1, read spring 11.
alignment settings, top three to the left, bottom one to the right.

Sometimes I run that setup. I'm sure you'll agree you don't need any downforce with the traction that setup gives you. Will give a second or so on your normal setup if you're running 1-1

 

[Peter Evans]

That setup is a little erratic, which is why I don't use it much.. But it's a fast setup if you can master it.. Plus, if you add a bit of wing it's even better.. Obviously it's not great for all tracks, but it sure works on high downforce tracks for me

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

You're right. Everyone is crying because of an understeer just because they're trying to take the corner with too much speed. The cars aren't understeering at all. I mean, they are understeering, but the grip is still way too much. And by understeering, most of the people mean, no front grip which is totally untrue. We can still do uber lap times, can't we? I bet 99% of the people will be incredibly slow in real life but they are fast here. Faster than a real F1 racer. So what do we get? No grip? I don't think so. The grip problem is only on low speed corners. Other than that, we are still having way too much grip.

People are to quick to dismiss other people problems as "can't drive, the problem is you".

IMO the main problem is:
The front and the back aren't correctly balanced, so yes, if you nail the corner entry speeds and don't go over the limit the car bites nicely, but... as soon as you one foot over the line... What you get is humongous understeer instead of a car that is "dancing" on the limit and you can fight it to bring back in line.

Through some hard work I've adapted and now i can drive this game okayish, not the fastest guy, but fast enough to beat Legend, but that doesn't mean i should close my eyes and dismiss the obvious issues.

 

[bud7h7]

It is now my belief that there could be too much weight being transfered forward under deceleration/braking. In fast turns taken flat out or with only minimal throttle let off, there is plenty enough oversteer to stay on racing line, as the car remains balanced.

In slower turns following braking there might be more weight transfered to the front tires than there should be for F1 cars. Maybe that's why front tires lock up more and also why the front end pushes.

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

I have mate. It wasn't the same. Perhaps it's faster on the straights in race, but for out and out lap time, I'm much faster on qual/through the bends. I only try 1-1 wing if I have a specific car set up.. Try this out, for a laugh.. It's the incredible traction setup

wings 1-1
brakes, whatever you like
balance 11-11
ride height, whatever really, 2-2 works for me, front spring 1, read spring 11.
alignment settings, top three to the left, bottom one to the right.

Sometimes I run that setup. I'm sure you'll agree you don't need any downforce with the traction that setup gives you. Will give a second or so on your normal setup if you're running 1-1

If you use This setup on RBR the Rev limiter Will dance on mid straight due to their Low top speed.......
A Certain Advantage to New drivers who are Fighting hard to find the Traction as this setup gives them the Traction they need

 

[ENDR]

If you use This setup on RBR the Rev limiter Will dance on mid straight due to their Low top speed.......

Have you tried... Oh, I don't know, setting longer gear ratios maybe?

 

[Kartik Sri Harsha]

Have you tried... Oh, I don't know, setting longer gear ratios maybe?

Yes i did in Germany i set the Max 318 for 7th gear and Before i reach the Mid of Back straight the car reached the Max 314

 

[ENDR]

Apparently 318 was still too low

 

[Peter Hooper]

I wish I had theory behind the setups.. I just find one with a nice balance, fine tune it and see how it goes. With the above setup I can lap Silverstone in the 1:31's.
You mentioned Bahrain.. What wings are you running there?

Your setup worked very nicely for me in a quick run out I had at Hockenheim last night.. only did a few laps just to re-familiarise myself with ther track (another one I really enjoy) and the setup gave me a very nice and stable car (minimal understeer). Hopefully I can get some more time to find some actual pace before tomorrow's PLR there. Should be fun regardless. You racing in it?