OSW settings sharing and feedback thread

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by RobertR1, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. RobertR1

    RobertR1
    Premium

    Messages:
    135
    Ratings:
    +46
    As OSW's become more common place, I thought it might help if we used a single thread to share feedback and our findings for different games.

    One of the things I've started is doing a control experiment where I run the same car at the same track with the stock setup while making adjustments to Simucube, ini's and in game settings. Then I run laps and write down the difference. I think a spec format followed by an overall impressions could work so people can easily go down the thread and pick out things that work for them.

    Game: Assetto Corsa
    Track: Nordschleife
    MiGe Motor size: 20nm
    Settings Version: 1.0
    Car: Porsche 911 RSR
    Setup changes: Stock
    Laptime range: 6:43 - 6:46
    Assetto Corsa ini changes:
    Location: ....mydocuments\assettocorsa\ff_post_process.ini
    [HEADER]
    VERSION=1
    TYPE=GAMMA
    ENABLED=0

    [GAMMA]
    VALUE=1

    [LUT]
    CURVE=crazy1.lut

    location: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\assettocorsa\system\cfg\assetto_corsa.ini
    [FORCE_FEEDBACK]
    FF_SKIP_STEPS=0

    [FF_EXPERIMENTAL]
    ENABLE_GYRO=1
    DAMPER_MIN_LEVEL=0
    DAMPER_GAIN=0.0

    Simucube:
    upload_2018-8-14_23-41-47.png

    Assetto Corsa In-Game settings:
    upload_2018-8-14_23-40-43.png

    Impressions:

    So far I've found this to setup to give a great sense of the car, the road and the intensity of driving a high performance car at a demanding track. As my primary goal is immersion and track substitution, the feedback aspects are something I prioritize over outright laptimes. I expect the laptimes to improve as a byproduct of experience but getting the right motion cues and building up the muscle memory appropriately (within the limitations of a game world) are my first priority. I found this setup to work great with anything from a MX5 to a F2004. For AC atleast, I feel that I can stop tinkering and just enjoy the game.
     
    • Beer Beer x 1
  2. RaceNut

    RaceNut

    Messages:
    1,261
    Ratings:
    +587
    I have settings very similar to yours but, one difference is:

    location: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\assettocorsa\system\cfg\assetto_corsa.ini

    [FF_EXPERIMENTAL]
    ENABLE_GYRO=1
    DAMPER_MIN_LEVEL=1
    DAMPER_GAIN=0.0

    This is a way of making the FFB more realistic in it's response and overall feel, as if connected to a car's steering mechanisms. This find was provided by LAR555 (GD Forums). It may reduce the fine detail a bit but, the overall behavioral benefits are worth considering imo.
     
  3. Andrew_WOT

    Andrew_WOT

    Messages:
    619
    Ratings:
    +118
    Damper min level is percentage of damper gain.
    How does it even work, 1 x 0 = 0?
     
  4. anton_Chez

    anton_Chez
    Premium

    Messages:
    604
    Ratings:
    +226
    I had this enabled and I turned it off when I got the OSW. I haven't noticed any ill effects. I think if you have an OSW, things like minimum force and any and all 'canned' effects should be OFF. You don't need rumble strips being faked when your OSW is capable of the actual thing. That's my opinion anyway. Even for the CSW V2 I had most of that stuff off, but I did try gyro upon recommendation from Aris from Kunos on a Race Department interview.
     
  5. RobertR1

    RobertR1
    Premium

    Messages:
    135
    Ratings:
    +46
    I ran this back n forth with DAMPER_MIN_LEVEL=1 and 0

    With my control setup above, I can tell there is a difference. With "0" I felt the feedback was more direct and immediate. With "1" I felt that there was some lightness/numbing at the low end but a more pronounced loading up and feedback in the wheel at the high speed end. With "1" there seems be almost a middle man that was passing the feedback to you. It's hard to explain but I could feel that the feedback was being "processed" before it got to me. You could reasonably state that delay was more realistic as the feedback makes it way through the drive train and chassis before it gets to you.

    I also felt the car was less physical to drive with "1" than "0" My laptimes were not impacted so this is purely an immersion and feel discussion.

    I do think that an argument can be made for both settings and there's always the subjective element of how we all interpret feedback so I do think both methods are valid.
     
  6. Andrew_WOT

    Andrew_WOT

    Messages:
    619
    Ratings:
    +118
    I couldn't tell the difference. At first I thought there was but turned out that while I was changing ini file, CM reverted it back to its in app setting before launching the race. So when I felt that wheel gets loaded more in turn I was actually running my original DAMPER_MIN_LEVEL = 0.
    After more careful and critical testing the result was the same, more wheel weight was related to not breaking traction in turn.
    Setting DAMPER_GAIN to 0 though has huge positive impact.

    I think what happened is that LARS555 was originally experimenting with setting DAMPER_GAIN to 0. And later on in this post https://community.granitedevices.com/t/assetto-corsa-and-simucube/642/204
    he commented the following
    But seems like he made a mistake posting settings or just got confused.
    DAMPER_MIN_LEVEL is just a percentage of DAMPER_GAIN and with gain at 0 it will produce 0 effect. Few guys corrected him on this later in that thread.
    And original setting for min level is 0, gain though is 1.
    @RaceNut, do you feel the difference with that settings. How can you describe it?
     
  7. RaceNut

    RaceNut

    Messages:
    1,261
    Ratings:
    +587
    To me, the FFB seems more constant in the wheel weight so the understeer effect is not abrupt or as obvious. I feel both are valid and useful setups, each having some advantages but, it depends on taste in FFB. I do feel the FFB may be more realistic in some ways but, can also admit that placebo can have an impact on our perception and Simulation value. ;)
     
  8. Andrew_WOT

    Andrew_WOT

    Messages:
    619
    Ratings:
    +118
    I really took my time today testing both back to back.
    Can you tell them apart in blind A-B-A testing? I had my experience dealing with placebo effect in my hi-fi hobby, it was a real thing, human mind and our perception are very susceptible to tricking.
     
  9. RobertR1

    RobertR1
    Premium

    Messages:
    135
    Ratings:
    +46
    I noticed that CM likes to mess with config files. I have other issues with it which I why I don’t use it but I noticed odd behavior where it changes FFB settings in the ini files especially when they do updates. Vanilla launch of AC never has this issue.

    In my control setup the most obvious location is the last right handed before the long straight blat the end of the lap. With 1 you can feel the understeer building up and the front wheels chatter when they push where as with 0 setting the understeer lightens the wheel as the tires loose grip. The fast left handed coming into the braking sections after the downhill run towards the first section of the lap is similar also. Hold it flat out.

    There are other examples but that two are easy to replicate. Could be placebo but this is running back to back sets of laps with times with 1 sec.

    I still feel either method is valid in the end given ones preference.

    I also disabled kerb/slip/road for separate testing. The kerb one is the least impactful but without slip/road the car feels like you’re floating on the surface. What I’ll do next is tweak the min level with the road and slip effects toggled to see if that impacts the perception.

    All in all, I’m very happy with the FFB on the 911 RSR at any track now regardless of the damper min level setting.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  10. Andrew_WOT

    Andrew_WOT

    Messages:
    619
    Ratings:
    +118
    What would be really interesting is to find from LARS555 if what he posted on Granity forum is really what he had in mind and not just DAMPER_GAIN back to 1.
    Unfortunately he didn't respond to any comments in that thread.
     
  11. anton_Chez

    anton_Chez
    Premium

    Messages:
    604
    Ratings:
    +226
    I have Content Manager do that to me too. It likes to change the Damper Setting to 0 even though I put it to 1. I think that's why I stopped worrying about the gyro effect. Since I started using CM it was annoying me and then I got the OSW and didn't think it applied anymore.
     
  12. RobertR1

    RobertR1
    Premium

    Messages:
    135
    Ratings:
    +46
    Ping him on Facebook. I spoke to him a few times on there.
     
  13. Andrew_WOT

    Andrew_WOT

    Messages:
    619
    Ratings:
    +118
    After you start making changes via CM, that takes precedence over direct file edits.
    You can change both Gyro and Damper in CM after enabling FFB experimental features.
     
  14. Moxley6969

    Moxley6969

    Messages:
    581
    Ratings:
    +218
    If you use Saved car profiles for CM, Each and every profile needs to be checked for some settings, as they are Not Global, But rather Per Profile based.

    It caught me out too when i felt something Very Wrong with FFB the other day, did some double checking to only find the old car i haven't driven in a long time was tagged to a Profile with a Bunch of wacky numbers that im pretty sure I didn't input,

    Saved said car to a New Profile and the world's round again.
     
  15. Andrew_WOT

    Andrew_WOT

    Messages:
    619
    Ratings:
    +118
    Think I could finally pin point the difference between DAMPER_MIN_LEVEL of 0 an 1. If you make changes via CM 1 it is 100% there.
    Yes, it does add some subtle dampening. Things feel more rounded, esp. noticeable when suspension and tires start chatting under load, with min level at 1 it is more "rubbery" feeling, guess with high enough filtering it would be hard to notice.
    Another thing is understeer or recovery from one, countersteering feels like it's working against some resistance, and sharpness of gained traction snap back is reduced.
    Also perhaps wheel is more "preloaded" or tightened around center on straightaways, when you try to yank it around it does not react as eager as with damper min level at 0.

    Or, all this is a placebo after all. :)
    At least I haven't noticed anything negative.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  16. RobertR1

    RobertR1
    Premium

    Messages:
    135
    Ratings:
    +46
    Yep. Good observations. Another easy test. Change tire compounds. The 1 settings will pronounce the change in feel. The 0 setting not as much.

    0 seems like pure raw feedback where as 1 feels like it’s being dampened, bettter word would be impacted, by other factors such as car components, road details and importantly tire compound differences.

    The changes aren’t huge but they are there.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. anton_Chez

    anton_Chez
    Premium

    Messages:
    604
    Ratings:
    +226
    So from this would we recommend leaving it on or turning it off and staying stock setting, for OSW users? I don't have the opinion the AC tyres feel 'wooden' but if anyone did this setting should help that. I do remember people likening the effect to feeling more like rubber when turning the wheel, which would be the feeling coming from the tyres.

    I'll give it a drive later on. I have a race tomorrow night so I will probably stick with what I have been using but I'll give it another go. It may even be on without me knowing. Either way I will compare both for the sake of experimentation.
     
  18. andycolh

    andycolh
    Premium

    Messages:
    57
    Ratings:
    +11
    @RobertR1 I did test you OSW setup last night,but I think my OSW start to make some strange effects/sound when pushing the limits in the corners. Don't now why,but is not realistic. Maybe it's is road noise but the filtering is wrong is Simucube. Whar encoder do you have on the mige?
     
  19. RobertR1

    RobertR1
    Premium

    Messages:
    135
    Ratings:
    +46
    I have the Bisc encoder from simracingbay. Can you record the sounds?
     
  20. andycolh

    andycolh
    Premium

    Messages:
    57
    Ratings:
    +11
    I will try. Summinh/humming ,not load but you can feel it
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.