Opinions on the adaptive AI

Billy Pilgrim · Apr 23, 2014

Hi
What do you reckon about the adaptive AI (the advertised "A.R.I.") in this game?

I've only completed 6/7, or so, races as I just got the game a couple of days ago. So I don't know how it's going to adapt yet, I suppose.

For the moment, for the races I complete without crashing out, I seem to win easily (and I'm not very fast). I'm guessing that it'll get harder...

What do you know about this?

I remember playing Forza a few years ago which had some kind of adaptive ai. And it was rubbish - it just made the game no challenge at all. Fortunately, you could also choose difficulty although that meant leaving the career mode (or something like that).

James Cook · Jul 20, 2014

I'm just glad we've got multiplayer now because I can't get much enjoyment from racing the AI. As said above, the whole field drives around in a bumper-to-bumper train for the entire course of the race. Gaps between cars don't develop as they would in a real race.

Is there even a talent file that replicates the pace of the actual DTM drivers? I'd like to see the faster drivers like Rocky and Spengler at the front of races and the slower ones dropping back.

Also I've not seen much in the way of genuine AI driver errors and accidents. You get the odd spin when the AI train bunches up through slow corners but that seems to be as a result of the poor AI rather than by design.

Retirements and mechanical failures? Don't think I've seen any yet.

Seems to me that Simbin got the DTM licence and had to rush this game to market without taking care of the details that matter to sim racers. Hopefully the next update will bring more of the things myself and others want from the single player experience.

Botond Nagy · Jul 22, 2014

mod-edit: we speak English here

Martin Edmunds · Aug 27, 2014

Botond Nagy said:
mod-edit: we speak English here

'MERICA.

Phil Ciborowski · Aug 30, 2014

James Cook said:
I'm just glad we've got multiplayer now because I can't get much enjoyment from racing the AI. As said above, the whole field drives around in a bumper-to-bumper train for the entire course of the race. Gaps between cars don't develop as they would in a real race.

Is there even a talent file that replicates the pace of the actual DTM drivers? I'd like to see the faster drivers like Rocky and Spengler at the front of races and the slower ones dropping back.

Also I've not seen much in the way of genuine AI driver errors and accidents. You get the odd spin when the AI train bunches up through slow corners but that seems to be as a result of the poor AI rather than by design.

Retirements and mechanical failures? Don't think I've seen any yet.

Seems to me that Simbin got the DTM licence and had to rush this game to market without taking care of the details that matter to sim racers. Hopefully the next update will bring more of the things myself and others want from the single player experience.

So speaking on the AI mistakes and crashes- I am not sure what game mode you play in (career or quick race) when racing the AI, but I have seen and been in the middle of the AI making errors.. true its not as frequent as it maybe should be, but it does happen... and when it does it sure throws you for a loop!

Martin Edmunds · Aug 30, 2014

Phil Ciborowski said:
So speaking on the AI mistakes and crashes- I am not sure what game mode you play in (career or quick race) when racing the AI, but I have seen and been in the middle of the AI making errors.. true its not as frequent as it maybe should be, but it does happen... and when it does it sure throws you for a loop!

To me Adaptive AI looks great on paper. But in practice its horrible. Just the fact that you have to race each track for it to come into effect is not very user friendly. Why would i want to have to race the same track twice just to get a AI that kinda works. Also i hate the fact that they follow each other like crazy, Its like a train and you better watch yourself if you in the middle of that train you gonna get run over.

I hope they will revamp this whole Ai thing soon cause right now doing a championship is not really fun.

James Cook · Aug 30, 2014

Yeah, as I said previously, I'd like to see gaps form in the field of cars, with the faster drivers pulling away and the slower drivers falling back. The nose-to-tail AI train just isn't realistic. It's like there are no distinguishable differences between the AI drivers (no talent file?) so all cars run at roughly the same pace. Older Simbin games were better in this regard.

The ADAC GT Masters update is supposedly bringing improved AI so I'm looking forward to that. Although racing in that series is close, you certainly see large gaps form as the race progresses.

Sean Lander · Aug 30, 2014

The adaptive AI is this game's Achilles Heel. It just doesn't make you want to play the game when you can't even get to within 3 seconds of their times. I'm not a slow driver but I cannot figure out how they can take some corners at full speed while my car can't. Very frustrating.

Phil Ciborowski · Aug 31, 2014

This isnt the first game with adaptive AI... back in the day, NR2k3 had it as well.. but the thing s you could set the AI strength on a slider (1-100%, no notches every 5%) and set it, but as you completed races you had an AI % set for each track.. that you could choose to use or not -- and it worked really really well.. After only one race it knew your ability, and the more you raced, the more the adaptive AI would fine tune its self.

Example - At bristol, i set the regular AI to about 94%, and put a serious hurting on them.. after the short race, i saw my adaptive AI skill at 98 % so i used that instead

Nr2k3 is an example of how the Adaptive AI can work, and work well.. if implemented correctly. But there is still hope for DTM13

Paul Jeffrey · Aug 31, 2014

Sadly, I feel Adaptive AI is poo..

Christian Casey · Aug 31, 2014

Didn't GTR1 or 2 have a similar feature? My memory may fail me here but I'm sure you could set the slider and enable adaptive ai simultaneously. I may indeed be thinking of Nascar 2003.

Phil Ciborowski · Aug 31, 2014

Could be - Id check (and get sucked into playing GTR2 :lol

if i was on my other computer/had my wheel... I will have to look when i get home monday.

Point that i think we are both making, is that while a fantastic idea, it needs to be implemented and refined to be of any use to us.

Christian Casey · Aug 31, 2014

I can see the check box in my memory above the AI slider, may be GTR1.

Can't see why a base line can't be set with slider, adaptive AI adjusts after the race.

No big deal Phil, either way it's more than possible to implement, what we will get is another story.

Phil Ciborowski · Sep 1, 2014

Sadly I feel that this was the best hope we had at a company creating a useful adaptive AI, and as it stands now, (as someone else said) its poo..

i really hope they work the kinks out, its a fairly useful feature (IMO) - and if they can work on the damage, and rules changes (heck add weather too) to DTM2014, then they have a serious sim on their hands. But thats a different story.

Christian Casey · Sep 1, 2014

Yeah, it's almost there, fix the AI, add pit stops, fix the FFB....there you have it. Presentation is A1.

I don't think it's too much to ask.....
GTR1/2, GT Lege, Race/07, Evo, STCC1/2, WTCC, GT power, Retro....what the hell happend to DTM???...lol.

Aaron Markham · Sep 2, 2014

Simbin has the best AI in sim-racing when it comes to actual racing, IMO. They try to outbrake when being passed & they aren't afraid to make a pass when faster. The AI definitely needs to spread out more as the race goes on but other than that it's pretty darn good. I agree the Adaptive AI needs work or needs to be dropped completely. I've been running a championship season in DTM & a few races have been competitive but most races I either blow them away or they blow me away. Very frustrating. If the AI would adapt to your speed after a practice session it would help a lot.

angelooliveira · Sep 8, 2014

Phil Ciborowski said:
This isnt the first game with adaptive AI... back in the day, NR2k3 had it as well.. but the thing s you could set the AI strength on a slider (1-100%, no notches every 5%) and set it, but as you completed races you had an AI % set for each track.. that you could choose to use or not -- and it worked really really well.. After only one race it knew your ability, and the more you raced, the more the adaptive AI would fine tune its self.

Example - At bristol, i set the regular AI to about 94%, and put a serious hurting on them.. after the short race, i saw my adaptive AI skill at 98 % so i used that instead

Nr2k3 is an example of how the Adaptive AI can work, and work well.. if implemented correctly. But there is still hope for DTM13

It's impressive! More then 11 years after and one of the best racing simulators out there. I race oval tracks and it's only one we have.

There is a special ffb "feeling" in NR2k3 that none of the simulators can offer. It's a pity iRacing does not have a offline option.

Thomas O'Leary · Sep 11, 2014

The AI for me is like others quite inconsistent, but the only time I ever do an AI race is if ive done numerous laps in the competitions so I know the laps. I spend a bit of time at Norisring hotlapping, put the AI on Get Real and after 5 races or slow, I still ended up finishing 1st by 10-20 seconds. So I dont see any adaptation that is noticable to me. When I choose a random track and race with no practice, the AI seem fast, but do tap me off track from time to time

André Gee · Sep 15, 2014

Comparing to GTR 2 I find the AI pretty tough and clever to race (basically) - really an advancement since that old times nevertheless I totally agree with most of the critics. There has to be some serious improvements in detail regarding the AI-behaviour.
I felt reminded to original TOCA PS1 game by Codemasters where you either had to run with the grid-train (like a pack of wolves) perfectly or you had no chance at all to get an acceptable result (kicked out ruthlessly by AI opponents)
Same here : Once the AI adapted (and like mentioned here: I sometimes ask myself to which of my times they adapt, when the whole grid is 1-2 secs faster during race then my actual pb is ??) they should challenge you - not leaving a hobby racer totally frustrated. Being no Hardcore-Sim-Racer anymore I don't drive regularly spending days and weeks in a row to compete/to get on par with so-called alien drivers....while for arcade racing I'm too experienced from years of simracing so that I find most arcade stuff pretty boring...
Even the most fastest guys I met online are not able to hold their "qualy"- pace on that level during an entire race - as professional drivers aren`t - thats ridiculous).
The other point mentioned here as well is that they are too flawless - just look at real DTM races : there is almost no race without incidents, spinning cars, slamming , crashing a.s.o - fights for positions also cost time so that at the end of each race (lets forget about pit stops a.t.m.)the whole grid spreads all over the track.
I really love singleplayer racing as much as multiplayer - so that my first serious experiences in championship mode was VERY frustrating so that I decided to wait until DTME is updated too. Looking at empty DTME servers online it seems most of the players did the same.....
Thats surely one of many reasons why DTME is not valued the way it actually deserves cause from all so-called DTM-games or Mods Ive known soo far DTME is surely the closest`and Im pretty sure DTM drivers themself would agree.
Much potential wasted (or still not fully developed) but I understand that due to the difficulties and atrocities Simbin/S3 had to face (re-structering) they had to come out with something...and quick ( >>>my assumption)...