Official GT Championships in GTR-E?

[John Bergqvist]

Do you think if Ferrari and porche etc. allowed their GT cars to be used in GTR-E, that simbin would have made an official GT championship with the correct GT liveries, instead of the fake ones we see at the moment?

 

[Mark Birney]

All the liveries are fake?

 

[John Bergqvist]

well some of them have in-house sponsors, like raceroom, simbin etc.

 

[Mark Birney]

Simbin had the liecence, is it just a matter of renewing it? last I heard, they still had it.

 

[John Bergqvist]

they do, but ferarri and some other manufacturers said they couldnt use their cars ingame, it happened with old f1 games, Jaques villeneuve didnt allow the use of his name ingame, so he was the only driver in the field with a fake name.

 

[Mark Birney]

Really? Lol, why the hell would he do that?

Anyway, I'd expect Simbin to be waiting for the rights, then work on GTR 3 on the Lizard engine.

 

[John Bergqvist]

yeh. If you think about it, GT Pro, Sport and Club resemble GT1, GT2 and GT3.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Lol funny guy that Jacques. He had a fake driver driving his races too, hence the lousy results in F1

 

[John Bergqvist]

lol, so back to the topic. do you think if simbin had the full gt licsence as opposed to ones from certain manufacturers, they would have made the proper gt championships?

 

[Mark Birney]

I think the GT cars in the game are good enough, I like them, they're fun and there's a good variety. RDGTC makes skins for the cars anyway, so the sponsors are no issue. I hardly think the game is that less fun without the Porsche and Ferrari, true it would be nice to have Simbin do their magic on those cars

To note, someone did make a Porsche and Ferrari GT mod, perhaps someday they can be merged with the GT classes...

 

[John Bergqvist]

yeh, i just noticed that Pro, Sport and Club are similar to GT1,2 and 3, so perhaps they would have put the official gt championships in if they had the liscences.

 

[Dave Stephenson]

I think the GT cars in the game are good enough, I like them, they're fun and there's a good variety. RDGTC makes skins for the cars anyway, so the sponsors are no issue. I hardly think the game is that less fun without the Porsche and Ferrari, true it would be nice to have Simbin do their magic on those cars

To note, someone did make a Porsche and Ferrari GT mod, perhaps someday they can be merged with the GT classes...

initially they did, but they were slightly faster so didn't work properly.

 

[John Bergqvist]

someone should make a 2009 GT1,2 + 3 mod.

 

[João Andias]

initially they did, but they were slightly faster so didn't work properly.

The funny part is that all the endurance races I did with the GTSport class (one of them here at RD) were won by regular GTSport cars not the MOD ones.

The Ferrari had a reliability problem and a many people had trouble making it going the distance, and the Porsche once the rear tires start going, you can/could lose much time going sideways.

But yes, generally they were faster... but all in all in my view they were balanced.

But again this all idea of "balanced" cars in a single class isn’t of my liking...

In GTclub the cars are very far from balanced (in terms of how “faster” ), some turn like mad, others go so fast straight that the times are very near the GTSport class in some racetracks.

For instances In the Nordschleife with Z4, one has to really give it to do 05/06 but with the Viper we can go easily under 7 min. So the all directly balanced (how “fast”) car "idea” goes a bit under the carpet...

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

yeh, i just noticed that Pro, Sport and Club are similar to GT1,2 and 3, so perhaps they would have put the official gt championships in if they had the liscences.

They have the license like mentioned before:
http://www.simbin.se/company/brands.htm

And they choose to go for a different approach. To be honest i dont care about he liveries not being real. In the beginning i thought it was a shame that there are no porsches and ferrari's but to be honest i dont miss them at all.

In GTR 2 the mass always went for the big brands and all other brands were often overlooked.

How many people drove the Nissan's, Morgan's, etc? No instead it was F550 only, bleeeeeh. I am happy we have a nice balanced field of different cars instead in Evo

 

[Neil Gault]

In GTR 2 the mass always went for the big brands and all other brands were often overlooked.

How many people drove the Nissan's, Morgan's, etc? No instead it was F550 only, bleeeeeh. I am happy we have a nice balanced field of different cars instead in Evo

One big regret i had from gtr2 is that in GT I used a 575 for one season, Viper the next and in NGT it was the Porsche RS then the TVR for the next season and the rest of the cars hardly got touched, but here with the club and league races we have nearly everything being used so it is a lot more interesting and varied :good:

 

[João Andias]

...How many people drove the Nissan's, Morgan's, etc? No instead it was F550 only, bleeeeeh. I am happy we have a nice balanced field of different cars instead in Evo

That is in part a problem with the (virtual) race organizers...

Long post alert, jump below to the finish to avoid.


Centering the discussion in GTs and endurance races.

In RL GT/endurance racing we have class mixing, and this has been part of this type of races for more than 40 years. Different paces within the same race are an integral part of racing being originated by different cars, classes or skills. For instances there are race drivers who are considered "very good", just because they are reliable when overtaking slower paced cars, not because they are the fastest. So the all concept of an entire field fighting for 1st is flawed…

Without going much into detail, there are basically two types of fans, the ignorant and the knowledge one.
Being an ignorant fan/enthusiast is a good start and many people are happy staying like that (and there is no problem with it). The knowledge fan is another step, some want to take it, others don't.

​

Examples

• Even marketing we see in races is directional for certain targets; for instances the main car advertising in F1 is targeted for the masses (ignorant type); a brake pad advertisement in a dirty bike is targeted for the knowledge fan/user.
• When there was no “wining” Spanish racer at F1, F1 races in Spain were empty (most were knowledge fans), even lorry racing attracted more fans. When Alonso showed up, the racetracks were suddenly full of fans (most are ignorant type).

​

I don’t want to offend anyone, I myself am an ignorant fan in many sports and I’m just have no interest in becoming knowledge in them.

But many people who come here are spending a considerable extra time regarding improving their enjoyment of a race based game, so I think many are and many more have the potential to be knowledge fans of races.

So the club who is different in some way of so many others in the INET (a mature and international community), could give an extra step in helping people improving the knowledge of the sport they seem to like (helping them in going from one type to the other if they wish to do so).

I know that Race07 doesn’t help in some ways in this task…

For instances it completely ignores the independent championship within the wtcc series themselves.

Even the pit dude tells “you win”, “you failed to score….” (You damn scumbag how did you dare to fail to score), I even remember how in GTR2 I :rotfl: when with a GTN Porsche in a mixed class 2hrs race I came in 9th (winning the class) and the dude said I “failed” (next time I will attach a rocket engine to the roof so I can overtake those F550). So I admit the dominant culture of “we all must absolute win” is present in many parts of the game (pushing the things to the ignorant side). But there is also the contrary; the Evo expansion like pointed above has some classes that are far from balanced (GT club or even GT pro) or only become “balanced” if we go to 120 mins simulated races.

​

Ideally people should always be incentive to do the best with what they have, not to “kill themselves” in order to be 1st above all.


So all this rambling for what… just to base what is being typed below.

Championships should incentive people to use different cars.

There are several ways... separate classification, random car selection, car permutation or whatever.

People should be happy to give their best with what they have… it is virtually impossible for everyone to be 1st, we all have sufficient brain to acknowledge that the best/quickest driver doesn’t win in F1 (for instances), it’s the all package… F1 drivers are all good, some have the right material and others just don’t.

I must say also that I’m lucky that in some public servers there are several mixed class races (many times too mixed), so I’ve the opportunity to race GTsport mixed with GTclub for instances, racing a Z4 vs. a “badly” driven M3 at the Nordschleife, has an extra interest to me, seeing the M3 going away on the straights, and catching it on the turns gives that extra interest and feeling of giving it all, which to me is better than strictly being 1st.

Also don’t get me wrong, sprint, trophy (one make) races have room, a big room even (to please its big crowd)… but a more “real deal” should have its space too (I think there are no championships currently in RD who have mixed classes, although there is a GT championship who within the classes has some unbalancing).


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Sorry for the long post

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

I think there are no championships currently in RD who have mixed classes, although there is a GT championship who within the classes has some unbalancing

Originally we wanted RDGTC to be a full room league with all classed represented. The simple fact that RACE 07 only supports 25 players prevented that. For example in rFactor or even GTL (3 years old ) allow more clients and a mixed field of club, sport and pro is an option in that setting.

For tintops we now run a one make championship for the first time to have a balanced field for the first time and see how close the races well get..

Both variations have their pro and cons but the fact that the slots are so limited also limits us as organisers

Nice post by the way Joao :thumb:

 

[João Andias]

Originally we wanted RDGTC to be a full room league with all classed represented. The simple fact that RACE 07 only supports 25 players prevented that. For example in rFactor or even GTL (3 years old) allow more clients and a mixed field of club, sport and pro is an option in that setting.

Yes …

When I went about choosing the racing game to play online (like everyone else I don’t have unlimited time, so had to make a choice) one of my big “must have’s” was being popular (many on-line players), since like most I prefer to simrace a one-make championship vs. a fair and polite field then a simrace a true simulation vs. boots (AI).

Like the one you pointed, in some aspects, because it must appeal to the masses, Race07 is a kind of step back in regards to simulation itself when compared to older titles (even simbin’s ones).

My hope is that SimBin understands that with a few little modifications (let’s call it small added options), Race07 would improve much for race “fanatics” like me and at same time, not spoil it for the masses since bigger the audience, more the gain to them.

For instances, for the new expansion one “small”* addition would be root support for a field of 30 or more cars. In this way all sprint and one-make supporters are happy because the expansion is about wtcc08 and f. masters, but at same time it “blinks the eye” to the racing nerd playing endurance races.

* This “small” in truce isn’t that small since it goes directly to the INET code of the game. But we could go about the time limit for instances (why 120 mins time limit at the Nordschleife, when one can set 50 laps there?)

Also there is a mode that circumvents this, 30 cars field and 180 mins races… but although with the latest patch it is very good, it still increases the probability of some of the less managed INET coding of the game to potentiate itself.​

For tintops we now run a one make championship for the first time to have a balanced field for the first time and see how close the races well get..

Yes, I’m in there too… the funny part is that currently I’m involved in two championships here at RD, and both are one-make, AF3KGPC (reserve), and RDTCC (regular):wink2:.

 

[Dave Stephenson]

When I played GTR2 more often I enjoyed racing in the smaller classes in the rooms that allowed mixed racing but unfortunately you tend to be all on your own with everyone else in the 550. Kind of destroyed the point for me.

If SimBin could find a route to deliver a doubling in size to server capacity, that would allow you to have at least 15 cars in each class accross the GTs and we race events with 15-16 drivers regularly and they are good so that would be the benchmark figure for me. In terms of performance etc I would even be willing to take the hit of only having the same number of vehicles visible as now. In the start of the race there might be cars popping in and out on the furthest points of your vision but once into the race that woiuld be rendered null and void as only the cars directly round you really matter. so a good trade-off I think.