F1 2011 Official 11/11 spring thread

[Richard Knight]

Every game has it's flaws, 2010 was great, bugs and all but this major bug ruins it for me. Xbox league on hold for fix.
Please send a message to Coddies and complain! Please add any links you can, thanks

12/10/11 Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this topic! Okay, so this is not a bug! Check out John Robertsons post below, I think this sums it up nicely. We will be starting the Xbox leagues on the 20th Nov with a limit of 9/9 spring settings. As John says "we want our lap times to be a little more realistic". Hopefully CM will fix this physics flaw in the next patch (but don't hold your breath lol)

<removed the links>

"no it's not a bug, it's a flaw in the physics that codemasters used.

setting higher springs should make the car more responsive, less resistant to body roll, reduce cornering grip and traction, and increase tire wear

for some reason it doesn't work like that, it does make the car more responsive and roll resistant, but it actually increases grip and traction, and doesn't seem to have an effect on tire wear.

It's not correct, even within the game, as they've listed set up tips in the game based on real life, but following these directions to help your set up won't work.

It's up to you what you do with that info, I personally don't set my springs higher than 7/7 now and the league I race in follows that rule as well, but if you're trying to go as fast as the game will allow you to go then you've gotta set it at 11/11

The problem people have with it is that it's not remotely based on real life, and gives you an unreal amount of grip. the reason my league has capped it at 7/7 is because we want our lap times to be a little more realistic. doing 1:20's at singapore is just absurd xD"
John Robertson

 

[Ben Eastman]

I think people need to remember that yes extreme settings will produce faster lap times but have consequences.
I decided to run a test today, im in p2 for catalunya, a track which is notoriously hard on tyres. In theory, 11/11 should burn out tyres ridiculously fast as well as causing bumps and loss of traction from the suspension "bouncing" off the road where the road changes altitude.
The base setup I used can be found in the setups forum(yes it's 10/10 springs to compare, if you know how to do setups you know hard springs are necessary on this track to find the time).My best time posted was 1:21:213 in the HRT on primes. After I decided to make some changes- springs 11-11, roll bars 1-1, ride height 1-1. Supposed to be bugged out right?

My best time was 1:20:5xx, low and behold after 7 laps on fresh primes, left front POP! So I go pits, throw on options, back out. I'm putting down 1:19s now which is pretty pacy for an HRT, however I started hearing scraping sounds constantly particularly at high speeds and pretty soon a mechanical failure throws my back end out and I end up flipping upside down over the gravel pits at turn 4, slamming into the barrier, breaking off my wing and tyres. Seeing as how this never happened in my previous 5 races I can't help to blame 11-11 for my cars lack of reliability! May be subjective evidence but try playing with a Ff wheel with no assists all sims on and tell me that with 11-11 on bumpy circuits you don't hop through braking zones and steep downhill bends!

The problem is simply online where people drive with all assists on and no sims, which naturally makes 11-11 the best performance setting in terms of pace!

 

[Fallguy9999]

All I hear in these forums is noise about how everyone wants the game to be realistic.
As an avid f1 fan for 25 years the one thing I can be sure of is if an f1 team can exploit a situation / bend a rule to gain an advantage -
they will.
If the others can copy and follow suit - they will.
With the 11/11 glitch you have your realism ........... Now exploit it whilst you can and gain your advantage.
What's the problem, stop the moaning.

 

[ENDR]

The problem is: no team can bend the laws of physics, while this bug seems to do so.

 

[Fallguy9999]

The problem is: no team can bend the laws of physics, while this bug seems to do so.

Ahhh, but they would if they could

 

[Peter Hooper]

The problem is that the 11/11 bug might not be the end. I see a lot of 11/11 setups with other extreme settings (1/11 on anti-roll, 1/1 on ride-height). I don't know if these other settings go hand-in-hand with 11/11 springs, or whether they are strong on their own with say, 6/6 springs.

Thats the thing that bothers me and makes me question whether theres any point trying to find a decent setup through practice. Having worked hard to find a setup that I am comfortable with at a track I now question whether it's good because it suits my style or just because it's skewed...

 

[tf22raptor]

General questions about 11/11 bug, cockpit kers, cd forums down

Hi all,
I like many can not access the cd forums either (about 2-3 weeks now)

Just wondering ive heard about the 11/11 bug, how much faster does it make you go and can it be used online?

Also can u see how much kers you can in cockpit view? I notice your finger comes off the button when its empty.

Loving the game, ai seems like they are a little bit too grippy when trying to pass them, miss having to press pit lane buttons, apart from that its all pretty sweet.

Any help would be great

 

[Scott Main]

1) Can't comment, I can still access them fine. Maybe clear your cache and delete your cookies?

2) Stupidly so. I don't agree that it makes the car feel 'on rails', it's twitchy as all hell still if you adjust nothing else. It's also ruined online because everyone seems to know about it now.

3) When you cross the line you will see "K400" flash up on the right hand LCD (position display). Pressing the KERS button changes the speedo to show the remaining KERS. It reverts to displaying position when you either release the button or run out of KERS.

 

[tf22raptor]

thanks for that Scott, yeah its definatley a problem with there website configuration regarding the forums, I'm avoiding racing online until that 11/11 bug is fixed its just stupid to race otherwise unless you know the guys your racing with well.

Thanks for the tip on KERS wil check it out, will save me from going to rear view to see the indicator.

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

It's gonna take some work to correct the 11/11 or spring bug, it is not as simple as making the max setting behave more like a softer one, all spring settings are bugged, stiffening the springs just makes the car faster and more grippy, softening them turns the car into an overpowered minivan.

10/10 is unrealistic too(just a little bit less so), 9/9 has a lot more grip than 5/5 and so on...

 

[Ben Eastman]

According to real life physics harder suspension= more grip, less responsive, more wear.
I'm definately sick of all the setups on this site using 11/11 with 1/11 roll bars, so lame.
No real tuners I guess

 

[Ben Eastman]

Maybe turn 10 should do next f1 game FORZA is too hard

 

[Leonardo Chaves]

According to real life physics harder suspension= more grip, less responsive, more wear.
I'm definately sick of all the setups on this site using 11/11 with 1/11 roll bars, so lame.
No real tuners I guess

You got it backwards, harder= more responsive, less grip... and yes more wear (this one you got right :tongue.

Personally, i would like to see Slightly mad studios get a crack at an F1 game, although that would probably mean EA is gonna be involved (Nothing is perfect huh).

 

[EIF]

Well everyone and their grandmother is using this exploit online, not that many people seem to be online anyway. This game fails hard.

 

[Scott Main]

I still think people are being too harsh on this game. It is what it is, that is to say, it's a racing game. I'm sure I saw an interview with Anthony Davidson last year where he said that the objective was not to simulate exactly how an F1 car drives, but to capture the way that the average TV viewer thinks an F1 car drives based on what they see. And let's face it, even the slowest Grand Prix driver makes it look easy. Anyone remember how Richard Hammond, a man who spends his professional life driving some of the most exotic supercars on the planet got on in an F1 car a couple of years ago? Yeah, he sucked. And it's probably fair to say that the average gamer does not want a game that they can never be truly good at without months, if not years of experience of the genre.

If you bought this expecting it to be anything close to an rFactor, or a Geoff Crammond game then you were in for a let-down from the start. On the other hand, if you bought it expecting a fun, fast racer you may be more likely to get something out of it. I loved Crammonds GP series, so I'm no stranger to "hardcore" (I hate that word, but it fits) F1 games and yet I'm still having a blast with it.

Don't like the 11/11 setups? Don't use them. Tune the car yourself. If you don't know how to tune a car, then learn instead of slagging off others who are at least contributing. Hell, for the mediocre driver, 11/11 setups might be the ones that actually let them have a fun race running with the leaders. Not everyone is a Virtual Senna remember...

As for online, it matters not a jot if it's F1, GT5 or WipEout - if you join a random lobby you will get rammers and players who will use any and all exploits to gain an advantage. With any racing game at all, the only way to guarantee a fair clean race is to play with friends. Don't have any? Use the RD forums to set something up.

As for the other bugs and glitches, mostly (on PS3 anyway) they are not gamebreakers. I'm going to bet that the majority of players who don't frequent RD or CM forums (they're probably too busy enjoying the game...) won't even notice many of them. The intermediate tyre bug is the biggest one for me, but so far I haven't actually had to cope with it as my only wet races had the conditions change enough to warrant going to full wets or back onto slicks long before the tyres wore out.

I can't say I've noticed the "15 fps" or whatever it is issue on PS3. I think maybe a couple of times I've had some very minor frame drops on the run into turn one from the back of the field. Can't say I've had any issues reading any of the text or with bad pixellation. Possibly this is more apparent on a non-HD TV though. That wouldn't be unique to F1 though. Try reading the subtitles on any AAA title of the last few years on an old TV. GTA IV was almost unplayable on a normal TV because the map and text were just too small. ALL games now are optimised for HD.

TL;DR - Realise that the hardcore simmers (if you think of yourself as a "driver" instead of "player" this probably means you) are not, and never were the target audience, and look at it for what it is. It's a great game hidden under a thin crust of niggles and glitches, but a great game nonetheless. And this is coming from someone who wrote to CM to express their disgust at the half assed effort that was 2010.

Happy racing!

 

[Ben Eastman]

Yeah I've been hitting time trials hard to come up with "11/11 killer" setups...gotten close on a couple tracks. But mainly focused on getting into the RBR for career so I can just make setups there, as my TT setups don't work well for career in HRT

 

[Plaatkoek]

Raced in Malaysia last night. I was using the 11/11 exploit and was putting in 1:35 times. Rest of AI was in the 1:39's and 1:40's.
Then all of a sudden Schumacher came racing past with 1:34's....

Does the 11/11 setup exploit work for the AI aswell? Really hope not!!!

 

[Miguel Gonzalez]

The AI seems to tether on to your pace sometimes, least thats what it feels like. Certain races where i had a clear 1-2 sec gap per lap in prac an qualy i had Alonso and Button within bout 3 seconds on my tail and keeping pace. It seems they kind of rubberband the top cars again like they did last year to give a bit more of a fight.

 

[Marcos Paulo Gattermeyer]

Despite the well known 11/11 glitch I see that the ride heigh has no negative effect whatsoever, I mean, imagine a F1 car using the lowest possible height in Kuala Lumpur with it's many ups and downs, road bumps, especially on Turn 9. Yet you can set 1/1 height without a problem in that track and on others too, like monaco for example.

 

[Ben Eastman]

You don't have problems if you run harder springs which is why people run 1-1 11/11 suspension.
Try running 1-1 with 1-1 springs and tell me if you dont feel the car bottom out and lose grip.
If you drive with TCS you probably wont notice the effect because TCS has the same effect(it reduces your throttle input in these situations) so it's easy to mistake a loss of grip and traction due to bottoming out as TCS preventing a spin in a low-grip scenario.

 

[Marcos Paulo Gattermeyer]

You don't have problems if you run harder springs which is why people run 1-1 11/11 suspension.
Try running 1-1 with 1-1 springs and tell me if you dont feel the car bottom out and lose grip.
If you drive with TCS you probably wont notice the effect because TCS has the same effect(it reduces your throttle input in these situations) so it's easy to mistake a loss of grip and traction due to bottoming out as TCS preventing a spin in a low-grip scenario.

I personally don't use the 11/11, the max I go myself with the springs are 8/8 and I'm not sure if 8/8 stifness is enouhg to avoid a 1/1 height from bottoming out at malasya and I don't use any kind of assists so I'm pretty sure I'd notice the car bottoming out.

I maybe wrong tho and 8/8 spring can prevent a 1/1 height from hitting the floor, I'll confess that I didn't test it out very much, so i'll test it out today with lower stiffness settings and try to hit the floor.