New player, having a hard time heating up tyres

[Alexandre Arruda]

Hey guys, maybe someone can help me out?

I've recently bought a g29 wheel and Asseto Corsa, and this Sim Racing thing pretty much amazed me. This game is a blast. So, next month, iRacing Brasil will host a new season of a championship series for begginers and I'm like "WTH, "i'll give it a try. They'll even give new entrants 3 months of subscription for free."

So, before I subscribe to that racing league I decided to practice the MX-5 Cup in Laguna Seca, one of the tracks that league runs. And boy, do I need a lot of practice.

My first problem is tyre temperature. The hard slicks used in Asseto Corsa take a LOT of time to heat up, up to 5 laps sometimes. And I never get to heat up the left front and left rear tyres. I even tried to use assymetrical settings (15 psi for the left tyres and 17 psi for the right tyres), and although this setting makes me almost get proper temperatures, the left tyres are always a little bit colder than their optimal temperature. I also tried to add some negative camber, but I feel I'm going to some extreme cambers and I know that extreme set ups are usually not good to go for.

My second problem (and proably a consequence of the first one) is consistensy. I still haven't managed to complete 10 laps without spinning or drastically oversteering. Not to mention I still find it extremely difficult to downshift while cornering. Although it might be obvious that braking, turning and downshifting at the same time is an extreme stress for balance, I feel that if I managed to trailbrake and downshift correctly, I would improove my times a lot more .Especially at turn 1 and the corskcrew.

Aaand that brings me to my third problem, which isn't a big deal for me anyway, but... after ~50 hours of practicing, my lap times are waaaay to high. I mean, I've managed a personal best of 1:41:1 and an average of 1:43. Although those are times made with half a tank of fuel, lowering the fuel isn't giving me a better feel of the car.

So, I wonder... do you guys have any tips for setups and driving techniques that might help me?

Thanks in advance

 

[Mr Deap]

Well, I have no clue what a placebo is and am too embarassed to ask, so I'll just pretend I didn't see it?"

A placebo is a fake treatment that in some cases can produce a very real response.

@Mr Deap. But anyway, I suppose you are telling me to avoid trailbraking? In the Placebo video I noticed you avoided braking too hard before the apex and turned the wheel a lot more than in the "correct" video. Is that what you meant to tell me?

Yes, with good description of what I'm trying to show. It's important to not gain acceleration force before the apex to maximized the cornering efficiency. If you screw up with the brake, you can lift off & patiently wait to use the accelerator or adjust so the car gain speed at the apex.

This method is usable with all sims driving games, if you understand somehow the correct pattern.

What lap time do you get now?

 

[Hor-hay]

For correct pressures I just look at the color of the tire pressure number. I'm assuming green is optimum. You should be faster with TC off, I've found that I am especially in low powered cars. ABS you can leave on.

Sounds like you should concentrate more on being consistent then worrying too much about setups. I've seen many on here bang out fast laps with default setups. Watch your delta and maybe turn the ghost on. Watch other peoples hot laps on youtube, compare your sector times on RSR live timing. Also watch your own replays, from behind the car is good I've found. Don't be afraid of the curbs.

If your keen post a vid of your laps.

If you do go with iRacing there's an app (sorry can't remember the name) that you can use to compare your line, breaking, shifts, throttle, pretty much everything with others.

 

[Pawel Ziolkowski]

@Richard Dastardly no brake balance on mx5
@Alexandre Arruda If you know how much to brake without ABS, you are golden, turn on the ABS and brake roughly with the same force in longer brakings (into T1) and kick the brake pedal hard in sub 1s braking zones.
Actually this car is a lot about kicking. Throttle during punta taco also needs just a short hit.

One useful thing to do is to check telemetry if you are using your pedals correctly. Thou it's a bit tricky to get to clutch data. You either have to record (with other software like OBS or fraps/bandicam etc) your live lap with "pedals" app open and watch it in slow motion later, or use an app like ACTI to save telemetry and then open it in actual racing software like MoTeC. We could write a whole new topic about just the pedal telemetry, so i'll just say that it can be eye opening sometimes.

No TC is better, and pressures are optimal at 27 psi i think. Also if softening the rear is not enough try more negative camber there, but as mentioned above don't mess too much, default balance is quite good and laptimes will suffer from too much understeer. Lastly Laguna is a momentum track, line matters hugely, so it's often faster to drive slowly but smoothly through correct line than pushing hard with safe setup and lines that come out of it.

 

[Andy-R]

Sliding definitely helps, but there isn't any place for it on Laguna Seca, maybe besides T1.

I was running Mx5 on cold Nurburgring and more than half of the corners there can be entered in a 4 wheel slide* and still make normal exits. It costed a little time at first, but by the lap 5 i was running 2s faster than the second place guy and was accused for hacking XD. At that point the pace was soo good that i had to do only minimal sliding to keep the tyres in green-ish to the end of the race. Difference was so big i had to lower the initial pressure to have optimum grip when heated up to keep the car going really fast. Thou stuff like that is an exception, not a rule just like IRL.

As for waving, i did not find it too effective in any car (besides initial warmup). Significant temp can be only generated by sliding. On some tracks it's possible to turn the steering wheel close to max lock at the end of a straight, for example at Imola just before last big braking zone. It really helps heating up front tyres at minimal time loss (I used it in cold Tattus races with mediums). On Laguna Seca second to last corner is a good place for this too, if you have spare time for it in a race.

* - 4 wheel slide: It's enough to be up to double the normal slip angle of the tyres.


The main temperature generator while racing normally is laptime. That's why radical setups won't work - they do increase temperature generation but then by being slower the tyre has more time per lap to cool which makes it look like nothing is happening. This is also why slower drivers struggle more with temperatures, and fast ones (i'm guilty here too) say "It's fine". Sometimes it isn't fine but gritting your teeth and focusing on consistent laps is the best tyre warmer, and for that you need a setup you are comfortable with to push.

Yeah I don't do anything to heat up the tyres really. I weave around to get tyres that don't start on 100% grip up to max.
I have no idea how you drift an MX5 on slicks, I can't even drift an AC drift car on road tyres

 

[BhZ]

Second, about the video Mr. Deap posted... at first I just thought "Well, I have no clue what a placebo is and am too embarassed to ask, so I'll just pretend I didn't see it?" Hehehe you could tell me a little something, I'm new to this sim racing thing @Mr Deap. But anyway, I suppose you are telling me to avoid trailbraking? In the Placebo video I noticed you avoided braking too hard before the apex and turned the wheel a lot more than in the "correct" video. Is that what you meant to tell me?

Please do not follow that video. Everything you see there is wrong. He is braking too early and because of that, he is releasing the brake too early. I'm not too sure about the steering wheel either, but i don't drive those kind of cars usually.
Regarding the tires, in ac there's very little you can do to maximize the grip of the tire. In real life you can do a lot of things like changing suspension stiffness, moving the weight balance forward or rearward, play with the tire pressure... In ac, you just accept the temperature of the tires, you set the pressure properly and drive. Sliding has never worked for me as you end up losing more time than you can actually gain. The only possibility is if you have the front tires cold, to turn to something like 150-180 degrees in a turn to heat them, but again, i'm not sure it's worth it. I usually do that during my outlap to get the best from the tires during my qualifying lap. In the end you just have to adapt to the amount of grip you have and eventually adapt your driving style because you could have a more oversteery or understeery car based on which tires are cold.
Also, always check who answers to your thread, not everyone is really informed. There is a lot of misinformation on the internet as you have probably noticed already. The best info are the ones you find by yourself.

 

[Mr Deap]

Please do not follow that video. Everything you see there is wrong. He is braking too early and because of that, he is releasing the brake too early. I'm not too sure about the steering wheel either, but i don't drive those kind of cars usually.

It's already too late. He watched the whole thing.

I bet he already cut a lot of seconds already by now & simply need to adjust his racing line. The hardest part is by making the brain say yes.

 

[BhZ]

It's already too late. He watched the whole thing.

I bet he already cut a lot of seconds already by now & simply need to adjust his racing line. The hardest part is by making the brain say yes.

Why do you keep trolling? Even the devs have disagreed multiple times both here on RD and on their forum. Your arrogance has no end. Even tough everyone has told you you are wrong, you keep thinking you are the only one to know how things work.

 

[Andy-R]

I think Mr Deap is trying to become faster by slowing everyone else down with misinformation

 

[Kek700]

Regarding the tires, in ac there's very little you can do to maximize the grip of the tire. In real life you can do a lot of things like changing suspension stiffness, moving the weight balance forward or rearward, play with the tire pressure... In ac, you just accept the temperature of the tires, you set the pressure properly and drive. Sliding has never worked for me as you end up losing more time than you can actually gain. The only possibility is if you have the front tires cold, to turn to something like 150-180 degrees in a turn to heat them, but again, i'm not sure it's worth it. I usually do that during my outlap to get the best from the tires during my qualifying lap. In the end you just have to adapt to the amount of grip you have and eventually adapt your driving style because you could have a more oversteery or understeery car based on which tires are cold.
Also, always check who answers to your thread, not everyone is really informed. There is a lot of misinformation on the internet as you have probably noticed already. The best info are the ones you find by yourself.

That reassuring to know; about 5 months ago I spent a couple of days just trying to get temperature
Into Tyres, first by making adjustment relative to lap times, then adjusting every thing I could to
the exclusion of lap times.

I did actually learn something from it :-

There are an limitless amount combinations in a racing simulator

In the real world money would limit it massively

 

[Mr Deap]

Why do you keep trolling? Even the devs have disagreed multiple times both here on RD and on their forum. Your arrogance has no end. Even tough everyone has told you you are wrong, you keep thinking you are the only one to know how things work.

You should ask the topic creator if it helped not the dev. Obviously the dev will refute, because it look terrible at first glance.

Although it's not the ultimate pace(because he doesn't have the necessary hardware to do so), the game allow you to lower the lap time in such fashion.

 

[JoelK]

Although it's not the ultimate pace(because he doesn't have the necessary hardware to do so

Please explain.

 

[BhZ]

You should ask the topic creator if it helped not the dev.

Dont get me wrong, it definitely helped him. Now he knows what he shouldn't do. My question is why you keep thinking that what you do is correct.

 

[Andy-R]

Hey guys, maybe someone can help me out?

I've recently bought a g29 wheel and Asseto Corsa, and this Sim Racing thing pretty much amazed me. This game is a blast. So, next month, iRacing Brasil will host a new season of a championship series for begginers and I'm like "WTH, "i'll give it a try. They'll even give new entrants 3 months of subscription for free."

So, before I subscribe to that racing league I decided to practice the MX-5 Cup in Laguna Seca, one of the tracks that league runs. And boy, do I need a lot of practice.

My first problem is tyre temperature. The hard slicks used in Asseto Corsa take a LOT of time to heat up, up to 5 laps sometimes. And I never get to heat up the left front and left rear tyres. I even tried to use assymetrical settings (15 psi for the left tyres and 17 psi for the right tyres), and although this setting makes me almost get proper temperatures, the left tyres are always a little bit colder than their optimal temperature. I also tried to add some negative camber, but I feel I'm going to some extreme cambers and I know that extreme set ups are usually not good to go for.

My second problem (and proably a consequence of the first one) is consistensy. I still haven't managed to complete 10 laps without spinning or drastically oversteering. Not to mention I still find it extremely difficult to downshift while cornering. Although it might be obvious that braking, turning and downshifting at the same time is an extreme stress for balance, I feel that if I managed to trailbrake and downshift correctly, I would improove my times a lot more .Especially at turn 1 and the corskcrew.

Aaand that brings me to my third problem, which isn't a big deal for me anyway, but... after ~50 hours of practicing, my lap times are waaaay to high. I mean, I've managed a personal best of 1:41:1 and an average of 1:43. Although those are times made with half a tank of fuel, lowering the fuel isn't giving me a better feel of the car.

So, I wonder... do you guys have any tips for setups and driving techniques that might help me?

Thanks in advance

AC penalties are rather relaxed at Laguna Seca, you can set a valid lap with your outside wheels on the inside curb through the corkscrew as you can see below so RSR lap times might not be the best thing to compare to iR (if that is what you were doing.) I also think the iRacing MX5 Cup feels very different to the car in AC so I'm not sure how helpful practise in AC will be but incase it helps, here is an onboard of a hotlap at 26c 100% grip

 

[Mr Deap]

I think Mr Deap is trying to become faster by slowing everyone else down with misinformation

Posted 2 days ago...
https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...r-help-and-advices.151902/page-3#post-2757172

I have no interest in the WR time, I'm not even an active player & too old(probably the cause of the single mindset) to even care. it should be easy to get close to 1~2 sec of gap on an easy handling car, @RasmusP data & other advices would 100% make sense.

What I find abnormal is for player wasting hours & still have over 4~6sec of gap on an easy handling car. I still read usual absurd advice that just doesn't make sense, according to the clue provided.

There are tips that make sense depending of the learning curve of the player. Time is mostly gained at entry by abusing the front load. It's pretty much brake late as much as possible & still carry brake mid corner.

Understeer & deviate from the racing line at the exit phase put a large penalty on lap time. The safer bet is be late on the accelerator while trying to grab back the racing line. While not caring missing the line by braking late.

https://www.paradigmshiftracing.com/racing-basics/the-5-biggest-driving-technique-myths
Or the stuff with the racing line which symmetric is hardly different than baseline, although it won't result more than 5sec of gap a lap between both(if both are correctly executed, 1 sec of difference a lap).

It's the perfect showcase an excuse to say symmetric is wrong for someone who's more than 5 sec off pace as an inexperienced player just won't tell the difference between both.

There are time it's useless to take out the roller tape & just use some general term.
​

 

[PhilS13]

Can we get someone to come and identify this as an official disease? Some scientific dude/lady comes and goes : "Yeeeeep, oh yeah. This is a disease. Confirmed." And they give it some official name.

Once that's done we could get a foundation going or something. Start making pamphlets at least.

 

[Kek700]

Posted 2 days ago...

https://www.paradigmshiftracing.com/racing-basics/the-5-biggest-driving-technique-myths
Or the stuff with the racing line which symmetric is hardly different than baseline, although it won't result more than 5sec of gap a lap between both(if both are correctly executed, 1 sec of difference a lap).​

Interesting post... ( not seen that before )

i have spent most of my life doing sprints, could never afford to race,

To be honest after spending a practice session once with twenty or so
formula ford drivers at brand hatch ( used to love my formula fords,
had four of them covering 30 years ) any ideas of that were soon put to bed.
One week i would be sprinting ( i think it is called salom in USA ) in my
favourite car, peugeot rallye 1.3, next week my next Favourite race car
March 803 f3 car ( much modified ).
So i was used to contiually altering how i drove depending which car i was in.
As all that was required of me was to put in one fast lap. I quickly learnt how
to force a car around to get a fast time. ( very subtle, not sure i could explain that )
So that myth thing does make sense to me. And i can also add my own
" you have to go fast to go fast with areo cars "
One week in 1.3 Rallye next week in a tunnel areo car, never noticed that one.


I am not the brightest button in the box and can make some big blunders
of thought ( pea for a brain ).
Constantly get the real world and sim racing mixed up, as i have said many times.

But i do find the whole thing about racing in a simulator very interesting and fascinating.

Because i read every article on these topic's carefully i have noticed that everyone has
some thing positive to add. ( if you want to be quick read everything )

Two numb feet ( cannot feel the brake and throttle, cannot tell if i have them pressed
or not ) buggered eyesight, cannot see the screens very well, buggered body, reactions
of a sloth. ( yes i know i am )

But i still have my fun and a place in racedepartment, thats what i enjoy most
racing with all "standards" in one race. And all types of views in the forum.

 

[RasmusP]

Interesting post... ( not seen that before )

i have spent most of my life doing sprints, could never afford to race,

To be honest after spending a practice session once with twenty or so
formula ford drivers at brand hatch ( used to love my formula fords,
had four of them covering 30 years ) any ideas of that were soon put to bed.
One week i would be sprinting ( i think it is called salom in USA ) in my
favourite car, peugeot rallye 1.3, next week my next Favourite race car
March 803 f3 car ( much modified ).
So i was used to contiually altering how i drove depending which car i was in.
As all that was required of me was to put in one fast lap. I quickly learnt how
to force a car around to get a fast time. ( very subtle, not sure i could explain that )
So that myth thing does make sense to me. And i can also add my own
" you have to go fast to go fast with areo cars "
One week in 1.3 Rallye next week in a tunnel areo car, never noticed that one.


I am not the brightest button in the box and can make some big blunders
of thought ( pea for a brain ).
Constantly get the real world and sim racing mixed up, as i have said many times.

But i do find the whole thing about racing in a simulator very interesting and fascinating.

Because i read every article on these topic's carefully i have noticed that everyone has
some thing positive to add. ( if you want to be quick read everything )

Two numb feet ( cannot feel the brake and throttle, cannot tell if i have them pressed
or not ) buggered eyesight, cannot see the screens very well, buggered body, reactions
of a sloth. ( yes i know i am )

But i still have my fun and a place in racedepartment, thats what i enjoy most
racing with all "standards" in one race. And all types of views in the forum.

Especially the pedal work is difficult in a sim. When you try to go as early on the throttle with your road car like many do in the sim (too early) you simply get smashed into the seat and it feels very wrong. You simply don't start to accelerate before you start to open up the steering wheel again. Yet somehow almost every simracer (me included since a few months ago) tend to do exactly this...
Also to stop holding the brake and just let go of the pedals to roll through the corner: it feels so strange irl!
In other words, you might be slow in real life but you don't unsettle the car as easily.
Simracing isn't just about "being fast" or learning theories and technique. The biggest part is to watch the screen and make your brain simulate the real thing out of this. This is where a "mathematical FOV" can help but if you can't see s*** because you're basically looking through a keyhole it becomes useless as your brain can't simulate the real thing anymore.

An example for "absolutely not able to simulate the real thing by watching the screen and feeling the steering wheel" was a friend of my girlfriend. I put her on Highlands with the Audi S1 (modern, slow S1) and she couldn't even follow the road in 2nd gear. Turned wildly and crashed into the barrier.

Astonishing I have to say. She's a good driver irl but not familiar with racing games at all and somehow absolutely not able to merge the virtual driving with her real experience.
This showed me that this is quite a skill that some may be good at and some are not. Equipment can help (I guess with VR she would be a lot better!) but your "fantasy-simulation" also needs to be spot on to get real fast!

 

[Mr Deap]

Please explain.

There's a reason why the comments are disable in the YouTube page. It's not a huge gain but it's there, mostly during the entry phase. I'm guessing a 1sec easy on a normal size track.

You get more play & maybe allow you to turn the steering faster because there's more step with the brake while retaining the front load.

At least the game difficulty is adapted for the handicap.

 

[Kek700]

https://www.paradigmshiftracing.com/racing-basics/the-5-biggest-driving-technique-myths
Or the stuff with the racing line which symmetric is hardly different than baseline, although it won't result more than 5sec of gap a lap between both(if both are correctly executed, 1 sec of difference a lap).

Interesting post... ( not seen that before )
...........

i have spent most of my life doing sprints, could never afford to race,

To be honest after spending a practice session once with twenty or so
formula ford drivers at brands hatch ( used to love my formula fords,
had four of them covering 30 years ) any ideas of that were soon put to bed.
One week i would be sprinting ( i think it is called salom in USA ) in my
favourite car, peugeot rallye 1.3, next week my next Favourite race car
March 803 f3 car ( much modified ).
So i was used to contiually altering how i drove depending which car i was in.
As all that was required of me was to put in one fast lap. I quickly learnt how
to force a car around to get a fast time. ( very subtle, not sure i could explain that )
So that myth thing does make sense to me. And i can also add my own:-
" you have to go fast to go fast with areo cars "
One week in 1.3 Rallye next week in a tunnel areo car, I never noticed that one.


I am not the brightest button in the box and can make some big blunders
In my thinking process. ( pea for a brain ).
Constantly get the real world and sim racing mixed up, as i have said many times.

But i do find the whole thing about racing in a simulator very interesting and fascinating.

Because i read every article on these topic's carefully i have noticed that everyone has
some thing positive to add. ( if you want to be quick read everything )
Also something you do not agree with can make sense as you improve.

Two numb feet ( cannot feel the brake and throttle, cannot tell if i have them pressed
or not ) buggered eyesight, cannot see the screens very well, buggered body, reactions
of a sloth. ( yes i know i am compared to the quick drivers )

But i still have my fun in racedepartment, thats what i enjoy most
racing with all "standards" in one race,
and all types of views in the forum. And they all get my full respect

Do I know why I wrote all of this..NO
Is any still awake if they read this .. NO

One last attempt at saying. "Let's except everyone's point of view"
[/QUOTE]

 

[Kek700]

Sorry about that had problems with my upload