Tracks Nemuno Žiedas 1987-Present

[mantasisg]

NEMUNO ŽIEDAS BETA#2

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4diou9odlg2r7z2/nemuno_ziedas_0.1.rar?dl=0

Whats different ? Most of the road was totaly redone, physical mesh, some visual improvements. Don't test AI for this version, haven't been working on it for now.

Any feedback and opinions are highly appreciated. This is 0.1, I suppose, most of the attention is still being aimed at the road, but other stuff is starting to appear too.

 

[Vladislav Kurochkin]

Very good job. But:
- it's too bumpy as for me, I think. Compared to the real onboards and noticed that there's not so many bumps
- need the texture improvement (road textures are well enough only at the start-finish straight)
- boxes are needed
But in general - great job, mate

 

[mantasisg]

Thank you very much

With what car road is too bumpy ?

It is possible that bumps are too big now, however, I have noticed that it extremely depends on the car, never noticed before how differently cars are reacting to bumps. For example - 918 doesn't care much about most of the bumps, but they almost prevents P1 from going flat out, still P1 is faster In the braking zone of "sakiai" surface has to be very bumpy, that it would make braking much harder. I have tried to make a bit more various roughness. But yeah still not complete, I need opinions

Visuals haven't been priority yet, just experimentation, first comes proper road, I hope to get it in shape soon, and start texturing.

Any more opinions ?

 

[AccAkut]

All the crests make judging corners pretty hard. I tried to come close to the record lap you posted in the KRB, but low 1:15 was the lowest i could go in that session (only a few laps). Bumpiness feels appropriate for the track so far.

 

[Vladislav Kurochkin]

Thank you very much

With what car road is too bumpy ?

It is possible that bumps are too big now, however, I have noticed that it extremely depends on the car, never noticed before how differently cars are reacting to bumps. For example - 918 doesn't care much about most of the bumps, but they almost prevents P1 from going flat out, still P1 is faster In the braking zone of "sakiai" surface has to be very bumpy, that it would make braking much harder. I have tried to make a bit more various roughness. But yeah still not complete, I need opinions

Visuals haven't been priority yet, just experimentation, first comes proper road, I hope to get it in shape soon, and start texturing.

Any more opinions ?

I tested the track using BMW M3 E30 and Toyota Supra Time Attack to make the process more authentic. More sensible is BMW - sometimes car even jumped a little on the bumps

 

[Fat-Alfie]

I just got round to testing v0.1 and wow, you have really come a long way. The whole feeling is much more "track" and less "3D graphics", if you know what I mean. Much more immersive. It's already at the visual level of some released v1.0 tracks, so I can't wait to see how the final version will look

The physical mesh felt too bumpy in places, to me (T500RS on 50%). Parts of the track felt perfect, and I loved the way that bumps made the engine revs dance as the load on the rear wheels decreased and increased, but other sections felt like a field (sorry).

Also, the overall feel of the surface of the mesh is almost spiky, like I am driving on the tips of the mesh. It's hard to explain, sorry. Kind of like this:

like the tyres are skipping across the surface of the road, rather than in full contact with it. I tried the Praga, Lotus 2-11 and old 911 - they all felt the same to me. I don't know if your mesh has too few tris, or if it is just too noisy. If other people think it feels good then go with how it is now, though. I think road noise is quite a personal thing, like FFB.

Overall though, a huge improvement

 

[LilSki]

Yeah bumps overall seem a tad much. It feels rougher than Bridgehampton at this point and when looking at some on-boards I don't think it is correct. If you are building bumps you should compare similar cars if possible. You can't build bumps with something vintage and the real on-board is something modern.Seems as though you might have the right kind of bumps it just seems a tad big like I said.

Overall the track itself looks better. Looks like there might be scale still on the road as the lighting is pretty messed up.

 

[NightEye87]

I just got to drive the new beta. Love it to bits! Yeah it's a bit bumpy (Sakiai sure makes for an interesting braking zone) but in the older softer cars it's great. It might not be suited for the stiffer cars and I'm not sure if that would be the case IRL. I like oldies better anyway
Cannot comment on graphics due to my old system. Runs fine though.

 

[mantasisg]

Wow thank you a lot people, feedbacksplosion today Feels like I gained a massive boost to go a bit further.

@Fat-Alfie I have probably 6 or 8 different displacement maps through the layout, and just a first try, I don't expect a success tbh I think that some parts are better than others too, the straight between T1-T2 might be too flat, somewhere else too bumpy. I wonder in which section road feels like spikes, maybe the last one from "Sakiai" to tire chicane ? It is a long very old tarmac section, I have used 0.025 strength cgeneral displacement map there, except at the tops of crests. Maybe I should subdivide more.

@LilSki Thanks good tip, I'll be focusing more on BMWs and TA cars. Yeah, possibly I have gone too far with bumps in a few spots. What do you mean by scale ? UV or textures ? It is not eye candy at the moment indeed. Some "how to" stuff is still unknown to me.

By the way, I wanted to ask you about setting spline in options from "minnimum" twisting to "z-up". As you have mentioned in your forum posts. It seems impossible to get very smooth flowing edges across the track because when I move some section on XYZ other parts of the track gets slightly moved too, but if I change to "z-up" then whole track cambers gets distorted immediately.

@NightEye87 Yeah, thats what I was driveing the most too Especially loved 908LH. But yeah Sakiai might be a bit overdone. And few other spots. You are not missing any graphics, it just looks "mehhh" right now.

 

[LilSki]

Scale of the road object needs to 1.0 on all axis. Select the object and hit ctrl a and choose scale.

You should have started with z-up on the spline. It is mentioned in a few of my tutorials.

 

[mantasisg]

Oh that scale... Just checked and it is 1.0 for all axis, something else is bad then. Maybe shaders ? I don't know what is exactly messed up with lighting, but i'm not really happy how it looks though, I always though that it is because textures and a bit of shaders.

Yeah missed that info, and messed up, I'll probably just have to smooth everything manually at the very end, I think I can still do that while road object is on the spline but with array modifier applied, it will be 2-5cm movements on the edges, so shouldn't create missmatch with physical mesh. But I can redo physical mesh till it is not specifically very detailed.

 

[LilSki]

Oh that scale... Just checked and it is 1.0 for all axis, something else is bad then. Maybe shaders ? I don't know what is exactly messed up with lighting, but i'm not really happy how it looks though, I always though that it is because textures and a bit of shaders.

Yeah missed that info, and messed up, I'll probably just have to smooth everything manually at the very end, I think I can still do that while road object is on the spline but with array modifier applied, it will be 2-5cm movements on the edges, so shouldn't create mismatch with physical mesh. But I can redo physical mesh till it is not specifically very detailed.

You could duplicate the spline and road objects and just start over in Z-up and line the cambers up to the current road. Then once done just delete the one that has the minimum settings. That is what I would do anyway.

As for the look of the road it just seemed the lighting was mess up like when you have not applied the scale. It has light and dark areas that seem random throughout the lap.

 

[mantasisg]

Good idea, I'll try that, after some feedback i'll have to slightly alter a few spots anyway. Those dark/light spots might be something with mapDetails messed up, but I notice them only in kSEditor, and forgot to look for solution for now.

 

[aphidgod]

I finally had a go at this too, HUGE improvement from the first version. Visually and otherwise.

It's not just cosmetic - I couldn't find my way around the old build but I have no trouble on this one. And now that I can string some laps together, I really like the flow of this track. Tracks with elevations are the most intereting kind for hotlapping, and this one sure has elevations.

 

[Fat-Alfie]

And with the T70? Wow!

So, I tried a few older cars and even with softer suspension, I still think some areas are too rough in the physical mesh. Worst areas; just before the sharp left hand bend before the big climb (Sakiai), the dip after the big climb (Makushke).

Best feeling sections to me; from the start/finish line, through Esses, until you reach that left hander at section 4. Those sections are bumpy (feels great) but the surface feels less spiky to me there, like I have turned my filtering up more.

 

[aphidgod]

Nah, the Jaguar. T70 is done. Moving on.

Certainly didn't notice any bumps in that thing.

 

[mantasisg]

@Fat-Alfie Yes these are two places where i have the same vertex group and relatively strong displacement there 0.075 strenght, I suppose 7.5cm sized bumps. Gonna soften them a bit. Those other sections you named has under 0.02 strenght or 0.02 exactly IIRIC.

@aphidgod when you are exiting "esses" you should jump up at mid right turn apex, it should feel as close as in motion rig then Drove a lot of 908LH, GT40 and recent XJ13 there all feels very good, I especially like 908LH for some reason, XJ might lack some downforce for track like this. First thing tomorow - I'll test Lola newest physics there and at Silv67 (though I just love it the most at Thomson), and set goals for track improvements. OMG I need more hours in a day !

 

[mantasisg]

Been at real track today ! As a driver and as a passanger too, and then walked around the circuit, got tired climbing into "makuske" . I'm amazed by the track way more than I was before, guys with motion rigs should love it if i'll be able to transfer elevation transitions correctly, it is mad. Well I'm also aware that perception from screen vs real life can't be actually matched (should try VR tho). three spots in my track is way off, and few road details too. That is mostly elevation transitions. I hope i'll be able to tranfer what I learned today to real track.

I don't know who designed Nemuno Ziedas, but that man knew what he is doing, and probably had some creative freedom. I only know that people who built the track were searching for the best place a lot.

By the way in begining of this year Dirk Schneider from "Tilke" visited the track, you can see some pics here

http://www.delfi.lt/auto/automobili...ertino-nemuno-zieda-tai-unikalu.d?id=73799614

 

[Fat-Alfie]

I hope you had a great day at the track, and learned more about it

I was invited to go to Bilster Berg, but not until after I had finished making the track

 

[mantasisg]

Day was perfect and weather too. And the track - pretty much empty. I should go there more often, only one hour drive in one direction. It probably takes a bit more for you to go to Bilster Berg. Have you gone there already ?