PC1 My stab at some roadfeel FFB

Msportdan · Jun 4, 2015

Right okay this is far from perfect as you will see. But to get more road feel I think you cant get better than this.

All default apart from settings mentioned.

Wheel FFB-
Deadzone Removal Falloff > 0.10
Soft clipping > 0.30

Car FFB-
All f/m scales > 100
All smoothing > 0
Arm and ffb scales > your wheel and car dependant.

All body > 0

SOP scales > 100
Sop lateral Scale > 50.0
Sop Differential Scale > 150 (I know just try?!)
Sop damping > 0.0

As said it far from perfect but you get more road feel. You may get oscillation (letting go )too, but as I said its not perfect

Jake Fangio · Jun 4, 2015

Well I have just had a blast with these settings in the RUF GT3 around oulton.The road feel is very impressive.I think the car felt more skittish,which may not be a bad thing.It was more involved to drive it.Some subtle feel is lost,but with some tuning this could get very good.It's also a good workout for the arms and hands lol,my thumbs are aching!!.I'll give it some more practice tomorrow.But you could be onto something here

Msportdan · Jun 4, 2015

thank you. it does sacrifice a bit of tyre feel for road feel.

But I like the way under braking the car felt skittish in the Fgulf, which was the same feeling I had driving a real formula Renault.

I hope it could be a base for a FFB pro to come along and fix into something good.

Jake Fangio · Jun 4, 2015

Yes it certainly got the physics engine running.The ruf felt more on the edge.I would of put more laps in,but the misses poked her head in my room and frowned.A sure fire signal that my time was up!

.I will have a play tomorrow.And yes Rf2 was going through my mind too.

.

bmanic · Jun 4, 2015

I'm not sure you want to hear this but as a guy who has spent hundreds of hours with the pCars FFB system and pretty much understand it completely, I'll say this: Your SoP settings are "insane".. like, I mean "they make absolutely no sense what-so-ever". At those settings you are completely masking everything else with SoP forces (remember, these are REAR TIRE forces) meaning you know virtually nothing about the grip of your front wheels.. you know, those wheels that are kind of attached to the steering wheel.

What are you guys actually meaning with "road feel"? I've seen several posts of people trying to find some elusive "road feel" and many of those posts start with some very weird FFB recommendations that do not make any sense at all.. and basically just make the cars a lot harder to drive than they should be.

Don't take this post negatively though. I'm just trying to learn here.. trying to understand what you guys are after. What are you considering "road feel"? What tracks are you using as a measure? Note that there are massive differences in the amount of bumps on tracks. Some tracks are extremely smooth (example: Silverstone) and some tracks are seriously bumpy (Watkins Glen, Oulton Park, Barcelona).

Msportdan · Jun 4, 2015

I under stand bmanic.. and I agree theyre silly settings, but if theyre making them feel more like a car then it either shows up the FFB system, or something just isn't right.

Im basing my feel on my actual experience in a open wheeler, using the fgulf at snetterton. The amount of action/force that you need to keep these cars steady at speed is quite strong and no ffb settings have given me this feeling. I came out and my arms/shoulders ached.

and I haven't come closer to how I felt at the wheel. But I need to find a way not to mask so much the front tyres. The onoy reason they are high values because anything under 150 doesn't get felt, trust me I spent hours doing too.

But if you wanna try mould these into a better FFB than go ahead, that's why they are here.

Edit I took all the damping out of the SOp just to make a more raw (rf2 type) feel, and lowered the force.

SOP scales > 100
Sop lateral Scale > 50.0
Sop Differential Scale > 150 (I know just try?!)
Sop damping > 0.0

Msportdan · Jun 4, 2015

but as I said these still don't feel that great, just looking at some alternatives.

If you want a good example of how ffb should go play GSC or rf2.

Jake Fangio · Jun 4, 2015

.The ffb is way too weak.I've tried your settings bmanic and I'm not keen on them.I've been using lazarous,which are pretty good.The ffb system invites experimentation, so that is just what we are doing.Ffb is a personal thing,what suits one may not suit another. But thank you for your input.

Jake Fangio · Jun 4, 2015

I'll give them a good go tomorrow and try to match my lap times that I achieved with lazarous ffb settings.But sometimes its just great to be able to get some strong feedback from the wheel.

Msportdan · Jun 4, 2015

thanks for the posts guys.

I know there was going to be some oddities with these, that's why I couldn't stress enough that theyre far from perfect.

However, I just cant get rid of that weird jolt on centring the wheel at speed, (gets worse with speed) so im gonna just hang on until the patch, which boasts changes to the ffb. So sms may of fixed the dead ffb at centre anyhow

Dan

bmanic · Jun 5, 2015

Jake Fangio said:
.The ffb is way too weak.I've tried your settings bmanic and I'm not keen on them.I've been using lazarous,which are pretty good.The ffb system invites experimentation, so that is just what we are doing.Ffb is a personal thing,what suits one may not suit another. But thank you for your input.

So your main concern is "too weak" FFB.. and your solution is to completely clip it and lose all information present? Weird way to "solve" the problem.

There are ways to make the FFB a lot stronger without completely destroying the FFB information but as this is all subjective anyhow, you go do what you want.

bmanic · Jun 5, 2015

Eh, why the dislike? I wasn't being sarcastic if that's what you think. I was being serious. FFB is completely subjective in the end. There's no "right" nor "wrong" way to enjoy it. If heavy clipping is what you want, go for it.

Jake Fangio · Jun 5, 2015

bmanic said:
Eh, why the dislike? I wasn't being sarcastic if that's what you think. I was being serious. FFB is completely subjective in the end. There's no "right" nor "wrong" way to enjoy it. If heavy clipping is what you want, go for it.

What are you going on about?.I rated your post as informative. No one has disliked your thread!.So what's your game pal?.

Jake Fangio · Jun 5, 2015

Hello Dan,thank you for taking the time to share your experiments.I appreciate the help in trying to understand the ffb settings a little more.We may not be ffb guru's, but we try.I tried some stronger sop settings with Lazarus's settings today and felt some improvement.

bmanic · Jun 6, 2015

Jake Fangio said:
What are you going on about?.I rated your post as informative. No one has disliked your thread!.So what's your game pal?.

There was a dislike before.. nevermind. There's no game here. Was genuinely just confused why I had a dislike for the comment.

Anyways, back on topic.

Have you guys tried an "extreme" setting for the soft clip (half input)? Something like 0.1. What that does is it brings up all the really low level forces. Basically waveshapes / transforms them into 0.5 range (which you can then bring further up with the soft clip (full output) thing). This in combination with higher Fx values should give you a lot more "road noise".. at least in theory.

I'd test it myself but don't currently have a wheel available.

Jake Fangio · Jun 9, 2015

Ok so this is going to hurt!.Ive tried bmanics global settings again.This time on some different tracks,and they are very good.I can feel exactly what the tires are doing,and have improved my lap times.It turns out you must try them on tracks which have little feedback.The laser scanned ones give plenty anyway,so that was my mistake.I hold my hand up and admit I was wrong.