My first experience with a Motion Rig and high end setup

Discussion in 'Sim Racing Hardware' started by RobertR1, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. RobertR1

    RobertR1

    Messages:
    20
    Ratings:
    +17
    Steve was extremely generous and a great host in letting me come try out his motion simulation rig that consists of:

    - Fanatec CSW 2.5 with V3 Pedals
    - SimLabs P1 rig
    - Oculus rift
    - High end PC with a 1080ti
    - 3rd party apps that are well tuned
    - Next Level Racing Motion V3
    - Assetto Corsa

    My goal was to see how much of a difference in immersion there is with a high end setup that's well tuned vs what I'm currently using: rift with borrowed (and well used) G29 and pedals.

    The short answer: Easily enough that I'll be investing in a similar setup. The only delay being waiting on the fanatec podium series as I'm not into DIY and tuning projects such as OSW despite the potential benefits. If I had that type of time and energy, I'd just go do normal track days again.

    Which brings me to the longer version: My goal is singular. I want to come as close to track driving as possible with respect to feel, keeping my skills sharp, adrenaline pump and focus. Absolute laptimes are not that much of a concern to me. Naturally, I want to be fast but immersion comes first.

    I was actually shocked by the difference between his setup and mine. Within about 1/2 a lap, the Rift would feel more like a helmet and I'd do my normal "lean forward" which I only do when I'm concentrating. The motion was natural and not noticeable. That's an important point I want to clarify. If you can notice the motion separately from the game, then it's likely not very accurate. However, since the motion was fluid and natural, the immersion level was intimate and what my body would expect based on my inputs. Getting bumped by the AI felt very natural as did the transitions in Mugello along with the punishment on the Ring which we'll get to later.

    Subjectively, there are 2 areas of improvement:
    - Front end feel from the wheel. The wheel took a little bit of time to translate the feedback of the front end overloading and washing away. I could not feel the load up portion or the transition to under steer as early as I would have liked. I'm a "front end" driver in real life so I might be extra sensitive to front end feel than others.
    - Rear end slip feel from the motion seat. By some black magic the motion seat did a relatively good job of giving a rear end kick out feel but similar to the wheel issue with under steer, it would often be a little late into the mix to the point you've already started over rotating the rear. The initial load up, squat and unloading of the car was missing. Thankfully the wheel did a good job here so what I couldn't feel by my butt, I could feel in my hands.

    Sustained G's is likely something that isn't going to happen at a reasonable cost in the near future. If your budget is that high, I strong suggest getting a track car with some driving instruction.

    Finally, the thrill of the day was running laps in the RedBull Project car on N-Ring. If you can do a lap of that without sweating and telling yourself to breathe in Steve's rig, you might not be alive! My goal is to do an hour straight with that setup and measure my heart rate during it. What a blast and something you'd NEVER do in real life even if given the option!

    If someone setup a rig like Steve's at a trade show and let people run the Ring on the RedBull Project car, they wouldn't be able to make these fast enough....

    Steve, if there's anything I missed or needs correct, please feel free to jump in.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  2. Daniel oliver

    Daniel oliver

    Messages:
    7
    Ratings:
    +2
    Osw is plug and play these days no diy about it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. Jordan Dion

    Jordan Dion
    Premium

    Messages:
    133
    Ratings:
    +37
    Thx for the post.
    Finding this thread really interesting ;)

    Now the next question is : how much people
    are ready to pay for this experience (per hour)
    The motion rift and high end pc..

    I'm curious about this
     
  4. Mascot

    Mascot
    Premium

    Messages:
    485
    Ratings:
    +211
    Stuff like this warms the cockles of my heart.

    Kudos to @Steve D for opening up his home to a fellow sim racer, and kudos to @RobertR1 for not being a serial killer.

    :p

    [I reserve the right to withdraw this statement if we never hear from @Steve D again]
     
    • Haha Haha x 3
  5. Steve D

    Steve D
    Premium

    Messages:
    147
    Ratings:
    +111
    PMSL! :D:D:D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Steve D

    Steve D
    Premium

    Messages:
    147
    Ratings:
    +111
    Was really great to meet you Robert and it was good to talk shop and let you loose in my rig.

    Think you've pretty much nailed it.

    Yep, there are certainly one or two compromises, which I would agree wholeheartedly with. However I'm not one for constantly tweaking to try and attain the Holy Grail, (if it is attainable), but I'm happy enough that my settings, in terms of FFB and motion, pretty much cover all bases pretty adequately, regardless of sim / car / track combo. (And we were running stock set ups for everything)

    But after a while you get used to all the nuances of your own individual set up and can understand and react to them quicker. In fact over the hour or so you that were in the 'hot seat,' I could already see you adapting and responding to the feedback you were receiving in both the wheel and the seat and your efforts in that Red Bull X2010 at the Nordschleife, at the end of the session, were epic to witness! :) Have you wiped the grin off your face yet!

    And that, my friend, is what it's all about!
     
    • Beer Beer x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. RobertR1

    RobertR1

    Messages:
    20
    Ratings:
    +17
    http://www.simplyrace.co.uk/book-online That's a good gauge. No motion sim or VR though which I think would be a bigger draw than only force feedback and triple screens. I imagine you can charge more.
     
  8. RobertR1

    RobertR1

    Messages:
    20
    Ratings:
    +17
    Agreed. I plan to keep it "stock" once I get the basic settings dialed in and focus on the driving. As we discussed, chasing the perfect setup is a crazy mans dream. I just want to continue the grin I had from yesterday. That's good enough for me! :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love Love x 1
  9. Mascot

    Mascot
    Premium

    Messages:
    485
    Ratings:
    +211
    I really do love this hobby for exactly that reason (along with many other reasons). I just finished a test session using x4fab's incredible dynamic headlights mod with the Assetto By Night weather mod and I've been grinning like a Cheshire cat. A little bit of wee came out when my cockpit got lit by the headlights of the car behind. It's something I thought impossible in Assetto Corsa.

    VR, motion platform, FFB wheel, Le Mans at night... see you all in 2019 folks, I might be gone awhile..!
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love Love x 1
  10. Beef36

    Beef36

    Messages:
    114
    Ratings:
    +34
    I’m making a lot of finger in the air assumptions below, but let’s say a new Next Level Racing v3 Motion Platform is USD 3,000. When adding other Sim Rig peripherals, let’s say the total cost may be say USD 7,000.

    A new D-Box 4500i 6.0” (Gen II) is around USD 35,000 and I believe Vesaro includes this as part of their Professional Stage 7 which retails for £58,961.00 (approx. USD $78,000).

    https://www.vesaro.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=588&idcategory=588

    This is purchased for home, not commercial use so let’s assume no revenue and 3 hours of gameplay, 5 days a week for 4 years. That equates to say 3,120 hours. Based on this:

    Self-Built Sim Rig with Next Level Racing v3: USD 2.24 per hour
    Vesaro Professional Stage 7 with D-Box 4500i 6.0”: USD 25 per hour.

    There are way too many permutations and combinations here and other factors such as re-sale value, but it’s an interesting exercise in entertainment cost per hour.
     
  11. asteroulis

    asteroulis
    Premium

    Messages:
    220
    Ratings:
    +67
    Sustained forces are at this point replicated by geko systems gs105 (I have one) and simxperience gs4 seat. The geko seat is really nice and I can really suggest it. People say that if it is used together with a DBox system it's really great.
     
  12. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte

    Messages:
    1,248
    Ratings:
    +409

    I love seeing peoples own creativity being displayed...
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Jordan Dion

    Jordan Dion
    Premium

    Messages:
    133
    Ratings:
    +37
    T
    Thanks for the link, this is really interesting for future project ;)
     
  14. Jordan Dion

    Jordan Dion
    Premium

    Messages:
    133
    Ratings:
    +37
    That an nice equation.
    Thx for the link didn't know vesaro!
    I don't think people will pay the extra charge for the dbox
     
  15. Mr Latte

    Mr Latte

    Messages:
    1,248
    Ratings:
    +409
    Its only entertainment guys, we are passing time, having fun. Keep in mind every few years something better may come along or come into fashion. Yes how the racing immersion scene has changed in the last 5-10 years is incredible.

    A £40,00 handbag is a lot of money, but its not for a Premiership Footballer to buy as its less perhaps than 1/5th of his weekly income. Yet if his lady friend/wife uses that handbag on 4 occasions then its only £10,000 per day used. Truly excellent value for money. :)

    Peoples perceptions of "value" differ based on their own situations but I have to laugh at the /per hour usage to warrant or validate buying something extreme. Either it's in your affordable income or it's extreme and extravagant.

    Many guys here work and build up their rigs and kudos to them. They find gradual improvements and excitement by improving the rig they have. Although like in every hobby/interest many just have to have the latest/best thing and yet its possible those people are the ones that are never truly content and satisfied with what they have. They chase the "next new" the "new better" yet each time soon the excitement of the purchase passes. Many will also get highly into debt just to have such or put their "wants" before some other things. They seek to continually impress themselves or others with "purchase highs".

    Alternative perspective...
    In the UK the cheapest packet of 20 cigs is over £8. Many people are spending £300 a month (and more) just for fueling that pleasure/habbit they have. So yes often someone can say I don't smoke/drink and see no problem spending similar money towards a hobby or interest. Moderation is perhaps the key.

    My advice to anyone, having been to both extremes in my own life/career. Is keep things within your disposable income and be grateful for what you have. The more grateful you are, the more you will enjoy whatever you can afford to buy, whatever that may be. Its possible some people with Logitech G29 (bought and paid for) are more content and satisfied than those with the highest end rigs always seeking the "newest thing" or some form of "simulation nirvana". Then finding they owe a small fortune or may be paying interest on repayments for months/years.

    Happiness - Don't become a slave to the money...

     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love Love x 1
    • Beer Beer x 1
  16. RobertR1

    RobertR1

    Messages:
    20
    Ratings:
    +17
    You're absolutely right. Don't hobby on credit. Learned that lesson in the past. Set a budget and live within it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Hiro Abe

    Hiro Abe
    Premium

    Messages:
    145
    Ratings:
    +39
    @Mr Latte @RobertR1 Totally agree. Too many times have I seen people post about spending more money than they should on such and such then posting for sale that purchase a few months later to make their rent or what have you. You can create a real quality kit without spending a ton. The point is the fun factor, not who has the latest/greatest/most expensive. Maintain perspective.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love Love x 1
  18. Jordan Dion

    Jordan Dion
    Premium

    Messages:
    133
    Ratings:
    +37
    I was wondering how much people pay for commercial purposes ...
     
  19. Beef36

    Beef36

    Messages:
    114
    Ratings:
    +34
    Forums have numerous posting of people who attempted to run a sim racing business.

    Many consumers now expect full motion if they are paying to hire simulator time and the capital outlay is expensive. For example at the higher end, a big, commercial strength full motion 6 Axis platform (6DoF) with a projector setup that provides 180 degrees of vision and a replica racing car chassis can easily cost more than AUD 150,000 each.

    [​IMG]

    Then add multiple sim rigs to attract customers and costs such as wages, rent, insurance, replacement parts, servicing etc. If you have a mobile sim rig business, you’d need to consider how to transport and setup / breakdown hardware quickly and cost effectively. On top of that the commercial licencing costs for any software such as iRacing is very high.

    Imagine how much you'd need to charge customers and how much seat time each rig needs per week to generate a profit. You'd have to bolster that with other revenue streams (e.g. selling sim rigs, food / drink etc.).

    It's a tough business model and I tip my hat to all those race centres that are making it work.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Jordan Dion

    Jordan Dion
    Premium

    Messages:
    133
    Ratings:
    +37
    Im already in business, and what can i say is its tough !

    my passion is racing and im seeing for make my passion my pay !
     
    • Like Like x 1