My first contribution to GTR2: enhanced Force Feedback Guide

Cristian Luis

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Hi everyone,

I have been a F1 Challenge '99-'02 modder since 2007. I'm fond of sharing some stuff with you (regardless if I do modding for private purposes).

This community... albeit small, I find it incredible with its talented and passionate modders.

I want to share with you my contributions to this topic. Here it is the Force Feedback Guide by Julien Regnard, with way more advanced information in parameter setup added by me, plus extra information by Shovas, and some FFB setup files (needs to be adapted for GTR2).

https://mega.nz/#!B4EgAQyJ!jBQ-qpfRkMmpl-dzciaKkoB5MQo2qBLM_50kOISXn58

Please, share your thoughs! Consider it a beta, since I am not certain if these guides are in the correct order. Word files are included if you want to improve anything.

(Shovas' knowledge in GTR2 are outstanding from my viewpoint. I have also my own blog [but dedicated to F1C], with a plethora of information: http://f1challenge9902repository.blogspot.com/ :D)

Confirm me if these recopilation of guides are coherent as a whole, and it really helps you to understand and setup your Force Feedback.

Kind regards,
Cristian
 
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Shovas

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Good idea to create a package out of the best materials out there. You should get author's permission before bundling, though :)

In the Shovas ini files they're not really all tested and approved by Jimmy Broadbent. Only one variation was and it was a really old one that was much worse than they are now. Maybe just tone that back and say "As seen on Youtuber Jimmy Broadbent's GTR2 FFB Review" :D

Anyway, good job, keep it up! Long live GTR2!
 
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Cristian Luis

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Good idea to create a package out of the best materials out there. You should get author's permission before bundling, though :)

In the Shovas ini files they're not really all tested and approved by Jimmy Broadbent. Only one variation was and it was a really old one that was much worse than they are now. Maybe just tone that back and say "As seen on Youtuber Jimmy Broadbent's GTR2 FFB Review" :D

Anyway, good job, keep it up! Long live GTR2!
Is not just a package, Shovas. Julien Regnard's guide is now much more complete! Hope it helps.

The stuff I've recopilated was originally intended for private use; rather than asking, I preferred to credit everyone. Anyway, I know that I should have asked; that was a lapsus from my part.

Oh, and thank you!
 
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Bjarne Hansen

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Thanks, Good with everything in one package.
I for one find it fine to credit people. Really no need to ask permission for stuff that people already have published in public before.
 
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Shovas

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Really no need to ask permission for stuff that people already have published in public before.
This seems to be a big issue in the mod scene which is why I bring it up.

If you're just linking stuff on a website or forum post sure but taking work and making new packages out of it is somewhat different.
 

Cristian Luis

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Calm down everybody.

I will ask Julien Regnard in two weeks (from what Shovas commented, I believe he is ok with what I've shared; he just warned me, and I take it for future publications). I have no problem about asking for permission: as I have told before, I published it because I wanted to collaborate: I looked Shovas' work (his contributions to the GTR2 community is huge from my viewpoint), and I though that a recompilation with much better information about Force Feedback would do the job.

Besides, the stuff I collected was originally for private use. That's why I haven't contacted anybody. I know what is leeching, but I have not fallen into the account until Shovas notified me!

I have also credited everybody on their respective works.

(P.D.: I think there is a different between someone who modify stuff from others, but credit them... and those who credits themselves for all the work they have stolen and edited, deleting all information about the original authors.)

(P.D.2.: Huh? I cannot see any way to contact Julien... there is no email or webpage in his readme file.)
 
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Shovas

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It's fine by me. I'm just providing advice as it was advice I got early on.
 

Bjarne Hansen

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I expected so. :)
But isn't it a little strange that you can include work of others in scientific papers and research as long as you credit people but in a 12 year old game people feel they need permissions.
 

Shovas

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I expected so. :)
But isn't it a little strange that you can include work of others in scientific papers and research as long as you credit people but in a 12 year old game people feel they need permissions.
Yeah, I wasn't too keen on it either, but it's based on a sort mutual respect between those who do this work for free, so I can kind of respect that they have honourable rules and they tend to act like gentlemen when it comes to how they treat others.
 

GTR233

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Rule is simple : READ THE README !!!

If there is no readme or nothing specified in readme then you can use author's work by just adding his/her name in your own readme.

If readme includes copyright then RESPECT IT !!!
- Some authors authorize full editing and just ask to be credited in your own readme.
- Some authors ask for written permission for any re-use in any other mod.
- Some authors don't authorize any modification but authorize re-use in mod as long as all files are included and untouched.
- Some authors don't authorize any use at all of their work.

In the past I had bad experiments with bad people : by example someone has used my 10th anniversary HQ HUD (several days/hours of long work), he has just opened the dds and added a btcc logo in bottom left corner (few seconds of "work") then published it (without asking my permission whereas it is written in all my readmes) as "new hud by Zkarz" ...this is the kind of stupid people that gets on my nerves !!! Moreover this is specifically this kind of people who steal work of others then cry whenever someone else use their re-worked version without asking permission : it is a case of the biter bit :D
In the past, many great modders/modding teams were upset by this kind of behaviour and stopped to share their work.
 
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Cristian Luis

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Rule is simple : READ THE README !!!

If there is no readme or nothing specified in readme then you can use author's work by just adding his/her name in your own readme.

If readme includes copyright then RESPECT IT !!!
- Some authors authorize full editing and just ask to be credited in your own readme.
- Some authors ask for written permission for any re-use in any other mod.
- Some authors don't authorize any modification but authorize re-use in mod as long as all files are included and untouched.
- Some authors don't authorize any use at all of their work.

In the past I had bad experiments with bad people : by example someone has used my 10th anniversary HQ HUD (several days/hours of long work), he has just opened the dds and added a btcc logo in bottom left corner (few seconds of "work") then published it (without asking my permission whereas it is written in all my readmes) as "new hud by Zkarz" ...this is the kind of stupid people that gets on my nerves !!! Moreover this is specifically this kind of people who steal work of others then cry whenever someone else use their re-worked version without asking permission : it is a case of the biter bit :D
In the past, many great modders/modding teams were upset by this kind of behaviour and stopped to share their work.
In the past, and still in the present: many terrible modders like that were (and still are) in F1 Challenge '99-'02. BigFelix, Ralph Hummerich, BMCM3, Patjer, Luigi70, Schumacher180, CrashKing, SamAlex, R&G, among many others... all of them left F1C. Now that game is plagued by leechers, and good quality mods are practically non-existent there. F1 Challenge community has a lot to learn and envy of GPL (SRMZ) and GTR2 (most forums).

I even met people in F1C that DOESN'T UNDERSTAND why most original content creators left the community (or stopped publishing their works) after being leeched. Some say that every mod is illegal (done from scratch or not), which means that, for example and for their standards, Power and Glory mod has the same value than a mediocre 2018 F1 mod I have leeched to someone (who has leeched to another modder) from a legal viewpoint; that affirmation manages to ignore the effort of someone who developed and worked in a mod from scratch for years, and justifies thier act of stealing the work of others and credit themselves as authors. Or they say that many content creators tend to think that they deserve more respect, credit or recognition than they really should receive (many doesn't give authorization to less talented modders, and in their opinion, that is not how a community should work); the anger of being leeched (the same kind you have manifested, GTR233) is just an ego matter for them, your own ego problem as a scratch content creator to be exact. Many in F1C support leeching by saying "no one cares anymore, use what you want and publish it naming yourself as the author, because you have worked on the mod".

And then, all those leechers struggle when wanting to receive help (or they don't receive help at all). Well... time to pick up what you have sown.
 
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Cristian Luis

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One more thing, GTR233. What about projects created by others that includes a readme file about mod specifications and functionality, but doesn't offer any way to contact them?
 

Bjarne Hansen

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Rule is simple : READ THE README !!!

If there is no readme or nothing specified in readme then you can use author's work by just adding his/her name in your own readme.

If readme includes copyright then RESPECT IT !!!
- Some authors authorize full editing and just ask to be credited in your own readme.
- Some authors ask for written permission for any re-use in any other mod.
- Some authors don't authorize any modification but authorize re-use in mod as long as all files are included and untouched.
- Some authors don't authorize any use at all of their work.

In the past I had bad experiments with bad people : by example someone has used my 10th anniversary HQ HUD (several days/hours of long work), he has just opened the dds and added a btcc logo in bottom left corner (few seconds of "work") then published it (without asking my permission whereas it is written in all my readmes) as "new hud by Zkarz" ...this is the kind of stupid people that gets on my nerves !!! Moreover this is specifically this kind of people who steal work of others then cry whenever someone else use their re-worked version without asking permission : it is a case of the biter bit :D
In the past, many great modders/modding teams were upset by this kind of behaviour and stopped to share their work.
Nobody dispute this but what about people that left modding long time ago?
Or like a lot of stuff out there converted from other games, often commercial games?
It is still a huge undertaking to get a car from Grid or Forza into AC or GTR2 for that matter!
But should you tell people to respect your work and ask for permission to use any of it?

And in the case you bring up the HUD.
Sure that guy should not copy it and call it his own. And I would have called him out on every forum I saw him on until his name was deleted.
But not for using it but for claiming he made it.

Some quote from the internet:
"Instead of being mad take the compliment as a positive thing! Imitation is the Sincerest Form of Flattery is a proverb which means that one imitates someone else because one admires that person or values what that person is doing. So, it's a flattery though often unintended."
 

GTR233

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This is typically the problem i meet with Culmone67's hd track textures that I would like to include in 10th anniversary patch but it is been 3 years now that I try to contact him with no luck and this is why it is not included at the moment.
I would say if the mod is 10 years old and the author is no more contactable then you can use it BUT :
- you should add author's name to your readme for the work done
- you should write in readme that you try but you did not were able to contact the author
- if the author knocks at your door after the release of your mod and ask you to remove his/her stuff from your mod then you will have to remove it

Moreover, what is described above cannot be applied if the author is still present, and a fortiori active, on forums/social medias and especially on the forum where he/she has uploaded original work.
 

Cristian Luis

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This is typically the problem i meet with Culmone67's hd track textures that I would like to include in 10th anniversary patch but it is been 3 years now that I try to contact him with no luck and this is why it is not included at the moment.
I would say if the mod is 10 years old and the author is no more contactable then you can use it BUT :
- you should add author's name to your readme for the work done
- you should write in readme that you try but you did not were able to contact the author
- if the author knocks at your door after the release of your mod and ask you to remove his/her stuff from your mod then you will have to remove it

Moreover, what is described above cannot be applied if the author is still present, and a fortiori active, on forums/social medias and especially on the forum where he/she has uploaded original work.
Interesting... (!)

I would like to send you a writing called "Permission obtainment". With these ideas, I could expand it.

You (well, anyone) can have a look at it in my blog: http://f1challenge9902repository.blogspot.com/2017/11/f1-challenge-99-02-links-repository.html
 

GTR233

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I have just read your blog : great work for gathering all those informations about F1-99-2002, Shovas did quite the same for gtr2 on his blog.

So I did not know that the rule was "agreement" when no answer from author after 1 year : did I well read your blog ? So if I follow this rule then I can include Culmone67 textures in 10th Ann. Patch now :)

PS: you can remove nogrip link on your blog as it is dead now
 
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Shovas

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Kind of off topic now guys, sorry to derail your thread Cristian :D
 

Cristian Luis

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I have just read your blog : great work for gathering all those informations about F1-99-2002, Shovas did quite the same for gtr2 on his blog.

So I did not know that the rule was "agreement" when no answer from author after 1 year : did I well read your blog ? So if I follow this rule then I can include Culmone67 textures in 10th Ann. Patch now :)

PS: you can remove nogrip link on your blog as it is dead now
NoGripForum maybe is dead, but you can navigate through it. Or some of it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20180427042205/http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/index.php

Welcome back ;)
 
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