My driving: Pulling my hair out

[Tony Gordon]

So i've come from Xbox and Forza 2/3/and 4 (Forza 5 made me go Pc), i,m use to hot lapping, sometimes going over 100/150 laps to get a #1 on a track, so i know its not my dedication, I can tune a car to a point, but this game is driving me mad, 20/30 seconds outside the tuned setup i,m downloading, people wizzing past me online like i,m an old lady Sunday driver. Now after two months of using my new wheel (G27) i,m wondering is it the game setup i,ve got wrong ie wheel setting, FFB, logitec Profiler settings wrong or worse, that i,m just a small spec of rubbish in the bigger world of online pc racing.

 

[Niki Đaković]

Thanks for the help i,ll try those changes out tomorrow and watch some replys, my aim is to put Niki Đaković in 3rd place as he is sitting in 2nd right now lol (never happen).
Your qoute not to use break gamma at 1, what should it be on ?

Your joke is worse then my joke.
Look. I think I can help you. I'm sure all of your hardware is in check. Spiking brake pedal or something can't cost you 5 seconds a lap or whatever is the margin, so let me brake it down for you. If you are left wissing on the straights like a sunday driver surely you must be running too much areo. Let me make this real simple. Default setup by automatic means like a 2 sec gap. Half bad setup is around 1 sec and good setup is still half a second down. But still this would not explain half of the problems for you. So let's try again. Are you using the full width of the track. Is your line prosperous onto the straight. Does it tighten into twisty bits. This can easily cos you another second a lap.
Lastly Afair in arcade they allow you to slide the car around a lot and make it fast. Simulation does not tolerate overdriving. Yea sure you will have to induce or catch a few slips and slides from the car, but these are only barely visible. Overdriving costs between one second and spin. Under driving from half a second to one and a half. So being smooth is not enough. This is why many of us state how connected we are with the road in this sim. U get a feeling of what's going on beneath on the road. So to rephrase it, give it some time to sink in, explore cos the depth just got a whole lot deeper, maybe ull get there to the bottom of the things.

 

[LazyBug]

Sorry to interrupt but i do think you should upload one of your "at least 5 seconds slower" video to let people more understand your actual problem.

 

[Hany Alsabti]

1 question Tony, did u use a wheel or a controller in forza?

Last time when I tried forza 4 I was shocked how much hidden assists the controller had and it was faster than using a Wheel.

 

[Tony Gordon]

1 question Tony, did u use a wheel or a controller in forza?

Last time when I tried forza 4 I was shocked how much hidden assists the controller had and it was faster than using a Wheel.

I started using a wheel at the end of forza 4 but that was a 360 wheel, but the wheel was only bought for F1 really and i just got use to using it on forza, most of the times was with a controller, but your right there was a lot of thing i could do with a controller that i could never do with a wheel.

 

[Tony Gordon]

Sorry to interrupt but i do think you should upload one of your "at least 5 seconds slower" video to let people more understand your actual problem.

Will do today sometime,

Your joke is worse then my joke.
Look. I think I can help you. I'm sure all of your hardware is in check. Spiking brake pedal or something can't cost you 5 seconds a lap or whatever is the margin, so let me brake it down for you. If you are left wissing on the straights like a sunday driver surely you must be running too much areo. Let me make this real simple. Default setup by automatic means like a 2 sec gap. Half bad setup is around 1 sec and good setup is still half a second down. But still this would not explain half of the problems for you. So let's try again. Are you using the full width of the track. Is your line prosperous onto the straight. Does it tighten into twisty bits. This can easily cos you another second a lap.
Lastly Afair in arcade they allow you to slide the car around a lot and make it fast. Simulation does not tolerate overdriving. Yea sure you will have to induce or catch a few slips and slides from the car, but these are only barely visible. Overdriving costs between one second and spin. Under driving from half a second to one and a half. So being smooth is not enough. This is why many of us state how connected we are with the road in this sim. U get a feeling of what's going on beneath on the road. So to rephrase it, give it some time to sink in, explore cos the depth just got a whole lot deeper, maybe ull get there to the bottom of the things.

Yeah hardware is all in check, its more i had time when playing other driving games, I'm doing 14hr days at work right now so coming home to hotlap is a bit silly, but i,m on holiday soon and back to 9hrs a day after so i,ll see what happens then. Thanks for all the tips it does help a lot and its good to feel part of a community that helps when i,m p***ed off.
Now Niki i see the first sentence as a challenge, V12 SHY FX is looking at that time watch out lol

 

[Tony Gordon]

Sorry to interrupt but i do think you should upload one of your "at least 5 seconds slower" video to let people more understand your actual problem.

Will do today when i,m home.

 

[Diogo Ramalho]

For any type of pedal 1 gamma or fully linear brake is always the best thing to have. It simply gives the best precision at threshold braking. On old pedals it is extremely important to use 1 for best accuracy but even with new pedals it helps. Of course it will also means you get to the threshold of the pedal sooner than if you use larger gamma than 1 but you can learn it. If you have got used to large value then you can little by little reduce until you are at 1. If you go straight to 1 from big value it can cause you to lock up all the time because the threshold point comes sooner.

Using anything than fully linear brake pedal is not realistic and simply gives you poorer accuracy with the pedal. The less linear the brake the harder it is to consistently brake at optimal level. With fully linear brake pedal just 1mm of fluctuation will make your braking differ something like 2%. But with unlinear brake pedal that same 1mm can result in difference of 5% or more.

Also I'd suggest everyone to add something like 2% of deadzone into their pedals in ac for both top and bottom. Doing that will guarantee you are getting 100% throttle when you are pressing the pedal to the floor and 0% when you are not touching it.

Yes Ghoults, I agree with you but only if the pedals use something like a load cell, otherwise it doesn't make your life any easier because of the lack of force from the default spring on the G25/G27.

As Chris said :

For G27 pedals this is recommended, because you have no load cell to tell you where the threshold of maximum braking is, as you'll need to rely on muscle memory.

 

[Ghoults]

Yes Ghoults, I agree with you but only if the pedals use something like a load cell, otherwise it doesn't make your life any easier because of the lack of force from the default spring on the G25/G27.

As Chris said :

Especially use 1 gamma if you use pot based brake pedal.

Muscle memory is not what you think it is. Muscle memory is about force AND about location. You use muscle memory everytime you do something repetitive like pressing brake pedal. Every single time. You can learn to brake with fully linear pot brake just like you can learn to brake with unlinear loadcell. Those people who claim loadcells are about muscle memory and pot brakes aren't do not know what they are talking about.

Physically a fully linear pedal will always give you the best accuracy and as such best repeatability for hard optimal braking. This means your braking distances will not just be shorter but you can repeat that shorter braking distance every lap. When you add unlinearity you are essentially making the pedal less accurate no matter what kind of pedal it is.

It is important to understand what the brake linearity setting does. It doesn't just move the bite point of the brakes but alters the output.

 

[Diogo Ramalho]

This brake gama at 2.4 is in my opinion all related to your foot position while you are braking. It is hard to have some precision when your foot is stand up than it is when you put it more in the horizontal. And yeah linearity, braking gama at 1, is like y=n.x while the value from the braking gama is diferente from 1 the curve acts like a parabole being y=x^n

 

[Qazdar Karim]

Thanks for the help i,ll try those changes out tomorrow and watch some replys, my aim is to put Niki Đaković in 3rd place as he is sitting in 2nd right now lol (never happen).
Your qoute not to use break gamma at 1, what should it be on ?

One does not beat Niki Djakovic that easily

 

[Jason Murphy]

I would suggest trying the Wheel Slip % to 0%. For me, the sim feels completely different than with it at 20%. At 20% the cars felt like they were floating around and i could hardly do laps, now at 0% it feels like it should.

 

[Ghoults]

This brake gama at 2.4 is in my opinion all related to your foot position while you are braking. It is hard to have some precision when your foot is stand up than it is when you put it more in the horizontal. And yeah linearity, braking gama at 1, is like y=n.x while the value from the braking gama is diferente from 1 the curve acts like a parabole being y=x^n

Then move the pedals, forwards or backwards, up or down. Or add or remove spacers from the pedal faces if you use fanatec pedals for example. Or just learn to use your foot where you get the optimal braking earlier in the pedal. Go from 2.4 to 2.0, then 1.5 and then to 1.

Or use what you like . But physically it is a fact that linear brake pedal always gives better accuracy than unlinear one (at threshold braking where it matters). There are of course two kinds of unlinear brake pedals. One is the rising rate which all sims offer. Basically at 20% input you get 15% output and at 80% input you get 60% output and at 90% input you get 80% output.

Then there is the one I could call falling rate pedal. Or negative gamma. Basically at 20% input you get 25% output and at 60% input you get 80% output and at 90% input you get 95% output. So that adds more precision to the range when you do your hard braking but it also makes the pedal more sensitive earlier in the pedal travel. This type of unlinearity is something no sim offers. But imho small amount of negative gamma would be nice.

 

[Diogo Ramalho]

Then move the pedals, forwards or backwards, up or down. Or add or remove spacers from the pedal faces if you use fanatec pedals for example. Or just learn to use your foot where you get the optimal braking earlier in the pedal. Go from 2.4 to 2.0, then 1.5 and then to 1.

I'm using the awful G25 pedals fixed in a Speedmaster V2 and have no possibility to rearrange the pedals position. I do have tried brake gamma at 1 and I manage to brake easily but as I said using the brake gamma at 2.4 is in my opinion more predictable and it is the way I feel more in control. Just sharing my opinion and my point of view.

 

[Ghoults]

I'm using the awful G25 pedals fixed in a Speedmaster V2 and have no possibility to rearrange the pedals position. I do have tried brake gamma at 1 and I manage to brake easily but as I said using the brake gamma at 2.4 is in my opinion more predictable and it is the way I feel more in control. Just sharing my opinion and my point of view.

G25 pedals are probably just as easy to mod as the fanatecs when it comes adding or removing spacers from the pedal faces. Just look at the faces of the pedals and unscrew the screws. Then add piece of wood or something to get the throttle pedal little higher. After that the brake pedal should be lower and if you then move the pedals just half a centimeter further away you should have the throttle pedal at the same position as before but the brake little further away. So then with the linear brake the threshold positions should be close to what you have now.

If you really like the unlinear pedals then I'd guess good for you . G25 pedals being old pot pedals I find it a bit surprising you'd prefer unlinear pedal compared to linear one. Especially when you say it is more predictable that way :O. I remember when iracing first time out and it had that forced unlinearity in the brakes. I was really really suffering with unpredictable braking. I remember driving the skippy around infineon and despite braking the exactly same way into one of the slow corners my fronts just seemed to randomly lockup or I just went wide. Once they added the option to have linear brake pedal I could brake consistently later and harder and be more in control on corner entries.

Just out of interest how many steps the g25 pedals have between 0 and maximum? 64, 128 or 256?

 

[Tony Gordon]

Will do today when i,m home.

Having problems, noob question, never needed to do it so never have... how do i post a clip ? i tried YouTube but prossessing was on 1% for an hour.