Modding - extracting files (and possible re-import), physics and etc

Discussion in 'TT Isle of Man - The Game' started by DucFreak, May 6, 2018.

  1. DucFreak

    DucFreak

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    I'm just guessing here, but I suspect others have also been wondering about this as well. :cautious: Anyways.....

    In recent past, there was this other game by Kylotonn, called WRC 7 FIA World Rally Championship.
    Luigi Auriemma, the genius behind QuickBMS (which is mainly a files extractor and reimporter), has made a script to make it work for that game (so, to extract and import files within the closed packages).
    And it seems that the QuickBMS script of WRC7 also works just as well for TT-IOM (PC version, of course). :)

    What I did was to get the latest version of QuickBMS (as of today, 6th of May 2018) and the WRC7 script in the package with all known scripts (provided in the same website by Luigi).

    EDIT: FWIW, I attached the files I'm using for extraction of the TT-IOM files in this Mediafire link HERE, but I would advise to follow Luigi's QuickBMS page instead (as he may update the script and tools).

    This then opens a door of opportunities for modding, and for others to, perhaps, create tools to convert the encrypted files into readable formats, and so on.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Among the extracted files, the .DYN files seem to be the physics, and can be opened as text files.
    (note: I mainly use notepad++ for text file editing, and would recommend it over any other text editor).

    These .DYN physics files are composed of "base" files (so for each bike), and then specific variations to differentiate them between the different listed rider's bikes of same model (and placed/organized in that sense). For example, Donald's and McGuinness’s CBR600RR are not exactly same setup (etc and so on for the other bikes and riders).

    These .DYN physics files can be found among two packages, CHUNK_0.PKG and CHUNK_2.PKG, which are located under "...\WIN32\PKG" directory of the game.

    After extracting the contents of these two packages, we can then see the resultant files and folders and, among them, there are various .DYN files spreaded in organized form inside the following directories (ones resultant of the extraction):
    • ...\CHUNK_0\COMMON\TUNING\BIKES
    • ...\CHUNK_2\COMMON\TUNING\BIKES
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I've extracted the CHUNK files, have taken a look to the extracted files, but have not yet atempted to edit any files, so also haven't tried to re-import them to the packages after modifications.

    Anyway, just dropping the idea and the theme in these forums. :)
    Hopefully it can inspire others, who can pick it up and advance the potential this game has (IMHO), in ways and to results that I doubt Kylotonn will ever get this game at.

    If you do get interested by this stuff and decide to experiment, my strong advice is to always backup any and all files before atempting any modding at all! You're responsible for your own modding experiments, and you should be well aware of it in case things go wrong!
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
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  2. DucFreak

    DucFreak

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    Especially the physics, this could actually turn out as a way to rectify some silly things that Kylotonn got wrong (which at this point I start to doubt they'll ever correct).

    Personally, I'd like to rectify some basic but really odd stuff with these physics by Kylotonn devs:
    1. To rectify the excessive speed of the Supersports.
      IMHO, even if they're not far off (they're great overall), they seem a tad overpowered. They should never be able to reach over 280 kph (175 mph) so easily as they do in this game.

    2. To rectify the overdone power of the Superbikes, as well as their ridiculously short gearing/transmission.
      My strong suspicion is that, after overdoing the engine power figures, the developers tried to lower the top speed (maybe also to increase the sense of acelleration) by using overly short (too short) gear ratios. The end result is not good, the gearing is not like that in the real life counterparts.
    Still in relation to the gear ratios on the Superbikes, how they're ridiculous short if comparing to real life.
    Fixing wouldn't be just a matter of adjusting the final ratio of transmission to more realistic "feeling", as then the Superbike machines in this game would very likely reach and surpass 355 kph (220 mph), which these do not achieve IRL. :unsure:
    Personal opinion only but, to me, the Superbike machines should be overall closer to, for example, what the Triumph Daytona 675 is in the game (itself seems overpowered for a Supersport class machine).
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
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  3. Stig Bidstrup

    Stig Bidstrup
    Jarek says " 900 degrees of rotation " Premium

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    Having tried a real superbike I must say the gearing feels very real :O_o: insane acceleration all the way:confused:
     
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  4. DucFreak

    DucFreak

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    We're digressing from the topic....

    I was talking about the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th (and 6th in some cases) gearbox ratios used by most of (if not all) of the Superbikes in this game, which are silly short. Like "MX bike on arenacross" silly short.
    I was not talking about the sense of acceleration, which the game recreates quite ok.

    FWIW, I too rode similar bikes as to the real Superbikes depicted in the game, such as race track prepared BMW S1000RR 2011 and Yamaha R1 2010, own a Ducati 916 with extras and mods (including a really shortened final transmission), and I can't believe anyone being serious when saying those in the game feeling "very real" gearing-wise. Sure, IRL these bikes are absolute friggin beasts and can be a handfull, but nothing like you see depicted in the game in terms of internal gearbox ratios (the 6 gears), which also IRL can not be changed for the IOM-TT (only final ratio, AFAIK).
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
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  5. Andy_J

    Andy_J
    PC Veteran Gamer and Biker. Premium

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    I agree with DucFreak. My own RL experience shows that short gearing is mainly used on the short circuit tracks, ie British Superbike racing etc. The TT requires longer gearing and that 6th gear comes awefully fast on all the superbikes in game. There also seems to be lack of balance compared to the supersports class. These 1000 cc monsters really do need traction control in the game that actually works properly too.
    One mod I would like to see is to remove the screen reflections and make it easier to see in all lighting conditions. They use tear offs in real life would normally just peep over the screen for better vision, something we can't do in game.
    I would also want a crash to result in a 2 minute time penalty added on to the end result time.
     
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  6. gtsuit

    gtsuit

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    I'm not too bothered about unrealistic gearing or top speeds, I am extremely bothered about the handling with bears no relation to a real bike. I can no longer last more than 10 minutes without rage quitting at the rear wheel giving up the ghost. I hope someone gets their hands on it.
     
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  7. DucFreak

    DucFreak

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    Oh, for sure.
    There are many issues with this game, and I completely agree that the lack of time penalty (and especially lack of any damage) right after a crash is one of them.
    And I too certainly wish the strange rear grip was looked at - the unexplained (fatal) sudden loss of grip resulting in a very odd crash, when just a lap before(!) same corner at same speed and lean angle had been fine... :mad::cry: Yeah, I think that near zero predictability is a problem for most us using this game.

    But then the most basic and easier things have to go first, and the physics seem to be already reachable and editable (can be opened as text files). And in that, the unrealistic gearing, power/torque figures and top speeds would likely be easier (to me anyway) to understand and "fix", than any of the bigger issues we see with physics or even features - all those will be a lot more complex, due to parameters and dynamics involved.

    We all probably have different interests, goals and sensibilities towards different issues in the game (and to possible respective fixes/changes), and that is one reason why I decided to post this here - to see if it sparks interest among those among you who are willing to "tinker" with this stuff, whatever and wherever your preferences are. :cool:

    But first, it needs to be made sure that recompiling the edited files within their respective packages in the game does work. If that is possible, the door of opportunities is opened.
    If so, the more people messing with this, the faster the understanding could be about "this and that" (including physics parameters, "what this setting does", etc), more so if knowledge is shared. Then we can get somewhere better much faster (a pipe dream, but....). :)
    Really, I just wish I had more free time and a clear head to experiment with this stuff. :geek: (maybe next summer)
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
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  8. Damage Inc

    Damage Inc

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    Top stuff Duc, I too hope someone can finesse the correct handling characteristics out of the games physics. And hopefully stop the zx6rs being piles of crud!
     
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  9. s00zster

    s00zster

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    After 2 months of playing this, I actually just ragequit for the first time because of the rear wheel slideyness. It's like it's on ice, either when I'm braking, or turning, or lifting off the throttle. I didn't have so much of an issue with it before now, perhaps I'm trying harder, or too hard? Tried different assist and controller sensitivity settings too (I usually play with no assists except for combined braking).

    Either way, even as a non-biker in real life, I'm not sure it should be doing it this much and this severely. I'm happy to be proven wrong by real bikers. :D

    Edit: An afterthought - you know how your rider model automatically tucks in? I'm wondering if the rider balance is all wrong, and even when you're not shifting weight forward with the thumbstick, it's automatically doing it because of the rider model. As I've said before, I don't get the rear wheel problem when I shift weight backwards, but I'm wondering if there's no middle ground between the two? In other words, you're making turns with all your weight at the front unless you pull the stick back?

    Because, for me, every bike does it, yet every bike feels different physics-wise apart from this. Perhaps it's not the bikes at all?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  10. girlracerTracey

    girlracerTracey

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    In many respects TT IOM reminds me of the "feel" in handling I get from the old gp500 when I race the IOM TT track on both games. In terms of the "feel" of the bike in its direction changes, camber changes across rises and jumps and elevation changes. Much more so than RIDE 2 reminds me of gp500. Which in my book is a good thing.

    Where TT IOM goes wrong for me is in its lack of feel on braking on the front end and the behaviour of the rear when you approach and exceed the limit. When you exceed the "limit" of the rear end (the "limit" imposed by the game physics and handling model) that's when things go slightly wrong with this game. Riding TT IOM and gp500 back to back on their respective versions of the IOM TT course shows up the shortcomings in the handling model of TT IOM for me quite clearly..

    gp500 has a superior tyre model. I think maybe that's got something to do with this also?

    As many of us have said before it wouldn't arguably take that much to tighten things up in this game and make things more manageable, intuitive and "progressive" when you overstep the "limit"..

    RIDE 2 on Milestone's "vanilla" pro level physics? Yes there is more feel and progression on the rear end and perhaps more feel on the front also(?) but for me they've dumbed it down too much by adjusting down the parameters in the physics files. Dyego and Giovane have brilliantly reversed this in their "simulation" physics mods but I doubt Milestone will head their own "vanilla" physics in the same direction.. So in some ways what Kylotonn have done is a breath of fresh air. But Kylotonn still need to tidy it up and patch it. I hear rumours they are working on this. I hope those rumours are true. I still really enjoy the challenge though. But it does need tightening up imo..

    I'm still playing it. It was never about "hype" for me with this one. It was about the one and only IOM Snaefell course.. No hype needed for me. ;)
     
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  11. Ayem22

    Ayem22
    Banned

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    the fresh air is Ride 3 for the 8th november, TT Isle of man game struggles all of us.
     
  12. DucFreak

    DucFreak

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    Sorry for the off-topic.
    Apples and oranges, really. :rolleyes:

    I know the Ride game series of Milestone are popular, and the long list of recognisable road motorcycles of many different segments is appealing. The thing is, it's not a propper "racing sim", it's more like a GT/Forza of motorcycles, doesn't take itself so serious, and is made for a wider audience.
    Even understanding that, I found both the original Ride and the sequel Ride2 quite passable really.
    And, on that, if Ride3 is anything like the previous two, again with somewhat cartoony graphics, (way too) forgiving physics, average-to-horrible sounds (and some very wrong sounds while I'm at it) and the usual Milestone "simcade" aproach as of the past decade or so, then it'll be a pass for me. That's for sure.

    Personally, what I want is a propperly done TT IOM, by Kylotonn and/or by the community. ;)
    I think I have every single motorcycle game released to this day for the PC, gave a fair chance to every single one since Cycles in 1989 (lol) and, honestly, never since GP500 and SBK2001 (so, yeah, it's been a while) have I felt a game in this genre as immersive and refreshing as TT IOM came to be.
    The good parts in this game are so friggin good that, really, it almost hurts watching the overlooked bits, the bad bits not being fixed by Kylotonn (namely some of the physics issues and ocasional stuttering, along few other bits in the sad list of issues).
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
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  13. girlracerTracey

    girlracerTracey

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    @DucFreak: I agree. There are some echoes of the past with TT IOM.

    I still play and enjoy modded versions of SBK2001 and gp500. That tells you a lot about the quality of those games. Or that I have appallingly bad taste? I hope it is the latter.. :confused:

    Don't get me wrong..I also enjoy RIDE 2. I raced a full 18 round online championship on it and it was great fun. But I prefer Dyego's take on the physics by a country mile..The Real Challenge Physics mod for RIDE 2 transforms the whole experience of the game for me. Just a crying shame we cannot race Dyego's mod online..

    So TT IOM.. If we can somehow or other mod the files to improve the physics in a few specific areas (as we have already discussed at length) then I agree it would make an interesting and challenging game that much better. As much as I enjoy it already.

    I hope some clever people on here with our help might be able to do something with this.

    "Midge" ;)
     
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  14. s00zster

    s00zster

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    Haven't tried the DLC yet, but it's been said the rear end behaviour is still present, and now also present with the sidecars. We need to find a way to fix this, I'm not sure the developers are listening to the complaints...

    Or we could turn up at their offices and mildly berate them with plenty of fist-shaking? :D
     
  15. Kenny Paton

    Kenny Paton
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    giphy.gif
     
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  16. Jimmy The Fox

    Jimmy The Fox

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    I don't think the DYN files for the bikes contain all the parameters, compared to the sidecar DYN files they're missing a lot.

    QuickBMS has an import error with the script, maybe the developer can assist?
     
  17. s00zster

    s00zster

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    Just seen a post from one of the guys at BigBen on Steam from a couple of days ago replying to people's suspicions regarding the code and the engine and the link it might have to the rear wheel physics issue:

    "Hey all,

    regarding your concerns about the game engine, we've asked the dev team to clarify and here are the main points:
    1. The game is based on the KT engine, like all recent games by Kyloton, and there is actually no such thing as “the WRC6 engine”.
    2. The physics for the bikes in TT Isle of Man were built from scratch and are not copied from WRC or any other game.
    3. You find four wheels because we use the same interface between code and dynamic files for all our games. The difference is that in TT, we only create 2 wheels and use data from only two wheels in the dynamic file.
    4. Consequently the bikes do not have four wheels in the code or anywhere else.

    We hope this cleared things up and thank you for your feedback, keep it coming."​

    Good to see they're reading the posts at least, looks like the best place for everyone to give their feedback. Hopefully they'll get the message and do something about it.
     
  18. DucFreak

    DucFreak

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    Finally had a quick go on this and, yes... as said above, repacking the files is not possible atm. :( Unless it's found a way to make the game read unpacked files on folders, or someone finds a way to repack the files correctly, it seems modding this game will remain nothing but a dream. :unsure:

    It is good to know that they post at all but, let's be frank, the level of discussions on Steam discussion boards are know to be quite low level.

    At this point in time, where forums like RD have reached a pretty high level of credibility and popularity, one'd have thought developers would be looking into here too. :rolleyes: ...oh well, one can hope.
     
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  19. Lidoptics

    Lidoptics

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    Whatever their excuses are, the bikes still handle like cars. They should have worked on the physics since day one. This isn't just bad for a bike game, these are very, VERY poor physics. The bikes never trip over, even when sideways. Ground up bike physics? No a ****ing chance. Motogp 08 has better physics. Do not listen to anything they say.

    I recall teamvvv talking about the game after they first showed gameplay, and they said the bike physics were 10% complete. This wasn't long after it was released.
     
  20. Jimmy The Fox

    Jimmy The Fox

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    It should be possible to mod with the cheat engine software, but it'll take time to pin down all the bike parameter addresses :(

    I've started with two easy ones - money and race lap count:
    https://www36.zippyshare.com/v/BTdgKPax/file.html

    Install cheat engine to use.

    There's a limit for how much money is allowed, so if you go over a certain amount it gives you a negative balance. Not sure about laps, but I've done one 30 lap race on the Hertfordshire track as a test and it was perfectly fine.

    I think I've found the gameplay camera settings but it needs further testing.
     
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