McLaren MCL 32 Breaks Cover - Now in Orange!

You want an airplane with downforce? :unsure:
I hope you realize that if you'd flip those wings one way or the other, they'd produce lifting force instead :)
Though I don't think it would be the most efficient way of making a lifting wing... Hence, I wonder what such airplanes would look like.

Notice how much aerodynamic surfaces on the cars evolved in just some 30 years. The modern airplanes wings, on the other hand, are still pretty much the same. I'd say, aviation needs more love. How many accidents could be avoided by simply making the planes narrower and making the wings produce enough lift at lower airspeeds...
 
It's a Marussia!
Virgin-MVR-02-2011-f1-car-pictures-6.jpg

Hope it doesn't perform like one.

But in all honesty, I don't like the scheme of the new McLaren.
 
The atrocity is, it's not even Mclaren orange... McLaren orange is the colour of orange juice, this is way too dark for that.


This is how it's supposed to be

1920px-McLarenM20.jpg
 
I hope you realize that if you'd flip those wings one way or the other, they'd produce lifting force instead :)
Though I don't think it would be the most efficient way of making a lifting wing... Hence, I wonder what such airplanes would look like.

Notice how much aerodynamic surfaces on the cars evolved in just some 30 years. The modern airplanes wings, on the other hand, are still pretty much the same. I'd say, aviation needs more love. How many accidents could be avoided by simply making the planes narrower and making the wings produce enough lift at lower airspeeds...

A Cessna needs 1500kg uplift at 100kph, and not at 300 something.
Wings of airplanes are the same for some time now, because they are as good as it gets. Work on aerodynamics of aircraft has been started some 70 years before it was in consideration when it comes to cars. Enough time to flesh it out. The different shapes for different aircraft (airliner, fighter jet, Cessna) are as good as it will ever get in the earth atmosphere..wings are adapted to the speeds the aircraft is supposed to fly at.
 
A Cessna needs 1500kg uplift at 100kph, and not at 300 something.
Wings of airplanes are the same for some time now, because they are as good as it gets. Work on aerodynamics of aircraft has been started some 70 years before it was in consideration when it comes to cars. Enough time to flesh it out. The different shapes for different aircraft (airliner, fighter jet, Cessna) are as good as it will ever get in the earth atmosphere..wings are adapted to the speeds the aircraft is supposed to fly at.
I'm sure these things do much more than just 1500 keys at 300+. The designers wouldn't be adopting those silly shapes just for the heck of it. Looks more like they have extracted every single ounce of downforce out of those wings thanks to the latest CFD software.

Of course, the modern F1 shapes wouldn't be exactly ideal for transonic speeds and above, but I see no reason why something similar wouldn't work around 200 kts or so.
I think aircraft designers are simply being overly conservative about what they are coming up with and they seem to be under less pressure than the F1 designers.
 
Of course, the modern F1 shapes wouldn't be exactly ideal for transonic speeds and above, but I see no reason why something similar wouldn't work around 200 kts or so.
I think aircraft designers are simply being overly conservative about what they are coming up with and they seem to be under less pressure than the F1 designers.
Nothing to do with conservative. They don't have the regulations F1 designer have :laugh: F1 cars from year 2000 had more downforce then the current ones, without all this stupid winglet stuff. The current design is just an offspring from very harsh regulations, that drove them to those kind of flaps. With free regulations you wouldn't see this nonsense.
More wings/winglets have been tested thoroughly for aircraft, and people realised as early as in the 1930s, that more wings make things worse --> more drag, less speed, more fuel consumption - nothing you would want nowadays. As for lift, a big mono-wing is still the best, just check aircraft like the Fieseler Storch or the Skyvan S.C.7. Only when you really want to stay below 120kts, it makes sense to have two wings.
 
Nothing to do with conservative. They don't have the regulations F1 designer have :laugh: F1 cars from year 2000 had more downforce then the current ones, without all this stupid winglet stuff. The current design is just an offspring from very harsh regulations, that drove them to those kind of flaps. With free regulations you wouldn't see this nonsense.
More wings/winglets have been tested thoroughly for aircraft, and people realised as early as in the 1930s, that more wings make things worse --> more drag, less speed, more fuel consumption - nothing you would want nowadays. As for lift, a big mono-wing is still the best, just check aircraft like the Fieseler Storch or the Skyvan S.C.7. Only when you really want to stay below 120kts, it makes sense to have two wings.
That's my point exactly: GA aircraft designers don't have strict regulations, therefore they don't come up with anything radical. The aerodynamic surfaces involved have hardly changed at all over all these years.

The 2000 F1 cars obviously had wider wingspan, so I guess the downforce could be comparable. Still, it would be interesting to see some actual numbers. At least the cornering speeds comparisons.

More wings make it worse. If you simply put them together as you see fit... If there's some proper prior CFD research done, however, with the modern materials capable to withstand high loads after being shaped into almost any form imaginable, I'd expect these new aerodynamic surfaces to perform better. And that seems to be the reason why the current F1 cars look the way they do. Or are you implying they are made that way "for the giggles"?
 
Pardon my outstanding ignorance if I'm wrong, but were McLaren F1 cars never orange before, even though its McLaren's color? I mean CanAm or road cars and just about everything else except Formula 1.

M7A, M9A, M14A, and M19A were all orange. The M23 had some orange on it in Yardley colors, but Marlboro is what everyone remembers being on that car. If you count pre-season testing, the MP4-12 and MP4-21 were orange.
 
That's my point exactly: GA aircraft designers don't have strict regulations, therefore they don't come up with anything radical. The aerodynamic surfaces involved have hardly changed at all over all these years.

Oh, aircraft designers do come up with radical things, especially in gliders and fighters, but you're conflating a few issues here. F1 cars don't just have aerodynamics built around downforce: They have aerodynamics that are based on the fact that the formula 1 car travels on land. The front wing of an F1 car has been specifically designed to work in running very close to the asphalt, whilst the rear wing is specifically designed for maximum airforce in an airflow that flows around the car and is shaped by the body of the car, by the front wing, and the fact that again it runs close to asphalt. The wind effectively bounces upon the ground, which is incidently why airplanes and helicopters have a noticable bit of extra lift whilst landing.

You don't see reverse F1 wings on fighter aircraft (the F1 of the skies) for that reason: Airplane wings are designed for maximum manouvrability or lift or speed or combination thereof in the air without any sort of ground effects. Since an aircraft has no wheels and no front steering axle they also need to be used to turn the aircraft which means that they need to be designed around the concept of having ailerons: Bits of the wing that move so that the aircraft can turn, and wings on airplanes need to be designed with those steering things in mind whilst F1 cars don't have them.

And I think you're unappreciative of the awesome things aeroplane designers have come up with: Designs like the Su-47 or the Eurofighter Typhoon are far more manouvrable then their counterparts of 30 years ago, and modern glider planes are so effecient they need to retract parts of their wings to get back on the ground.
 
Oh, aircraft designers do come up with radical things, especially in gliders and fighters, but you're conflating a few issues here.
The only more or less radical designs I can recall are those by Burt Rutan. Still pretty reserved compared to these new F1 wings, if you ask me.

F1 cars don't just have aerodynamics built around downforce: They have aerodynamics that are based on the fact that the formula 1 car travels on land. The front wing of an F1 car has been specifically designed to work in running very close to the asphalt, whilst the rear wing is specifically designed for maximum airforce in an airflow that flows around the car and is shaped by the body of the car, by the front wing, and the fact that again it runs close to asphalt. The wind effectively bounces upon the ground, which is incidently why airplanes and helicopters have a noticable bit of extra lift whilst landing.
There's another kind of devices that run close to ground. Ever heard of WIG aircraft? Their wings are still pretty much conventional.

I think the front wings on these modern F1 cars are mostly shaped like that to improve airflow over the front wheels, not because they run close to the ground. After all, the undertray runs closer to it.

By the way, no need to tell me about ground effect. I had experienced my fair share of it in planes and helicopters of DCSW alike :)

You don't see reverse F1 wings on fighter aircraft (the F1 of the skies) for that reason:
That's not "F1 of the skies". They are meant for a more serious use :)
The planes have to deal with 1M+ speeds, therefore the wings need to at least be swept.

Airplane wings are designed for maximum manouvrability or lift or speed or combination thereof in the air without any sort of ground effects.
Again, there are the WIG ones that hardly look any different.

Since an aircraft has no wheels and no front steering axle they also need to be used to turn the aircraft which means that they need to be designed around the concept of having ailerons: Bits of the wing that move so that the aircraft can turn, and wings on airplanes need to be designed with those steering things in mind whilst F1 cars don't have them.
"Bits of the wing that move"... Ahem... I could tell you about how the swashplates work, so no need to talk to me like to some 5 years old ;)
As for ailerons, with compact enough wings you could make them turn wholly. Just like some elevons or rudders on fighter jets are made.

And I think you're unappreciative of the awesome things aeroplane designers have come up with: Designs like the Su-47 or the Eurofighter Typhoon are far more manouvrable then their counterparts of 30 years ago, and modern glider planes are so effecient they need to retract parts of their wings to get back on the ground.
There's no Su-47 :) And the 35s are maneuverable enough already. Mostly thanks to the TVC involved. The lifting body design of the Flankers is pretty interesting indeed, but again, I was talking about piston-engined GA planes. And as far as I can remember, there was no CFD involved in the designing of those lifting bodies.
Looking at these new cars, I wonder if the modern CFD software is capable of solving the aerodynamic problems mostly on its own, and instead of simulating the airflow over a known shape, maybe it could come up with aerodynamic shapes of its own, specific to the task at hand.
 
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Two cars in orange sprung to my mind: Arrows A23 and Spyker F1. Neither were good.

The only McLaren that's truly a McLaren are those in white and red with either a French or a Brazilian driving. Too bad those are long lost.
 
Looks like they had renamed it after all :/ Makes no sense. It's just a test-bed aircraft and was designated S-37 at first, which is much more appropriate, since it was never intended to be put into production. Likewise, the T-50 is still T-50 and not a "Su-something", even though it's a pre-production prototype.

I am suddenly reminded of the Fokker Eindecker:
http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/Images2/Fokker_Eindecker.jpg
It has no ailerons, I think it predates them, it just has strings that warp the whole canvas wing.
Well, that's not what I meant. Eindeckers used flexible wings to achieve that. My proposition was to pivot rigid wing blocks separately on each side.
On the other hand, maybe at some point flexible adaptive aerodynamic surfaces will make their way back into aviation :)
 

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