Looking for guidance on budgeting for a FFB wheel and pedal setup

[FLDSMDFR]

Hey all,

Until now I've been driving with either an Xbox One controller or a very old (10+ years, it was my dad's) Logitech Wingman Formula (non-FFB) wheel (and crappy 2-pedal set). I've recently decided that I want to get into sim racing a little bit more seriously, but I'm having trouble deciding just how serious I really need/want to be.
I've watched/read countless buyer's guides and reviews, but none of them exactly answer my questions.

My initial budget is around the $450 mark (but I don't mind waiting and spending more if it's really worth the wait)

I don't mind buying a wheel and pedal set separately (I've had my eye on the TS-PC racer and Fanatec CSL Elite LC pedals - the price is making me hesitate though).
Below is a short list of general requirements that I'm using to try to narrow-down my search:

1. Must be a FFB wheel
I like the idea of reasonably strong FFB, but I realise the stronger you go, the higher the price.
I know I don't need the strongest FFB out there (read: DD wheels), but does stronger FFB allow you to have greater control and feel over the car ?

2. Must be PC compatible
Xbox One compatibility is a bonus but not something I'm seeking out.

3. I would prefer to have three pedals
A variable clutch (and one that is a pedal and not a button) would be such a nice thing to have
So far there seem to be three pedal sets (with three pedals) that are around my budget:
- Thrustmaster T3PA
- Thrustmaster T3PA-Pro
- Fanatec CSL Elite LC
Before you go screaming "Get the fanatecs!", considering the marked price hike from the Thrustmasters to the Fanatec pedals, is the loadcell vs the rubber cone mod really worth the extra cash (considering how new I am to the sim-racing scene, and not sure how far I want to take the hobby)?

4. Wheel must have a desk clamp
I don't have the cash or the space to invest in a sim rig, so for now the magic is happening on my desk

So far the wheels I've been looking at that are within my budget (ordered by most to least expensive):

1. Thrustmaster TMX Pro
2. Thrustmaster VG T300 (Ferrari / Alcantara)
3. TS-PC Racer

Sadly at $1,000 Australian, the Fanatec CSL Elite Advanced (bottom of the range but with the LC pedals) is out of my budget.

My focus has been on the TS-PC racer - I really like the look of the whole setup, I like the reviews I've seen, but I don't necessarily like the price.
I don't mind that this wheel doesn't include pedals, as it means I can choose a set that will best fit my requirements (instead of making do with a set that comes bundled with other wheels).
Suggestions for pedals?

Below those is the VG T300, which seems to be a pretty good buy. My only concern is that I know the FFB on this base is weaker than the TS-PC, and as I mentioned before, I like the idea of strong FFB. The former is also exacerbated by the fact that you pretty much have to reduce the already lesser FFB force to 75% to avoid overheating (at least that's what I've heard).
Does the inclusion of the T3PA pedals make or break this bundle (i.e. will I feel the desire to change them to the T3PA-Pro or the CSL Elite LC?)?

Last in the pecking order is the TMX Pro. There's not a lot of info on what base this uses, which concerns me. Does it support exchanging rims? Is it the same base as the T300?
Same question as above re: the pedals.

My main concern is with the FFB strength of any given wheel. Am I going to be disappointed with the strength of any of the wheels I mentioned?

Similarly, I'm concerned with the feeling of the pedals. I've heard amazing things about loadcell pedals, and I've also heard that the feeling from the T3PA family of pedals is mediocre at best, even with the conical brake mod. Thoughts?

Thank you for taking the time to read (and hopefully respond with some advice) to this excessively long questionnaire.

 

[Ricky78]

Why don't you consider the TX and TS-XW?
http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/products/tx-racing-wheel-leather-edition
http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/products/ts-xw-racer-sparco-p310-competition-mod
Since you'd like the Xbox One compatibility they are the best choices.

About your FFB concerns, the TMX could be disappointing, higher level wheels like the T300/TX and TS-PC/XW have stronger & more detailed FFB, and faster & smoother rotation.

 

[DND]

Excellent research on your part, I shared a similar wheel the Wingman Formula Force years back, and having recently upgraded from the Forza CSR to include load cell pedals it is a marked improvement I would highly recommend it if it is within your budget.

 

[GuitarTech]

I upgraded my T300 to a TS-PC racer a few weeks ago, and can thoroughly recommend both of them. The TS-PC is a big step up from the T300, but also costs a lot more. The TM T3PA pedals are ok, but not a patch on the T3PA-Pros.
If you can possibly stretch to it, the Fanatec CS v3's with the load cell brake are the dogs bollocks, night and day difference between the rubber cone mod with the TM's, and a proper load cell like the Fanatecs.
The Fanatec elite pedals are also ok, but the CS v3s are well worth the extra money. Once you've driven with a load cell, there's no going back. The only thing that made me hesitate about the TS-PC racer was the Fisher-Price look wheel, but a bit of work and some 3M carbon look foil soon took care of that

 

[Emery]

Basically you're wanting to take the jump from entry-level to least-cost enthusiast level. Any of the wheels you've listed should be fine, so it really comes down to pedals and the general opinion is that good pedals make more of a difference than the wheel will at this level.

So... my advice is to pick the least cost wheel at this level and get the Fanatec pedals (CSL-LC). The Fanatec pedals, however, will need some sort of hard-mount solution. Something like a box that locks your chair in place, so neither will slide when you use the brakes.

The higher quality your purchase is, the easier it will be to sell off if you decide this hobby isn't to your liking.

 

[ricerracer]

TSPC Racer is absolutely solid and a good wheel, I only sold mine to get a huge upgrade in an OSW.

 

[GuitarTech]

TSPC Racer is absolutely solid and a good wheel, I only sold mine to get a huge upgrade in an OSW.

I'd love a DD wheel too, but I only have a GT Omega rig, and I'd be afraid that a DD wheel would turn it inside out
And I'm not sure how well my wife would handle the cost of one, plus an 80/20 rig to bolt it to. Since she found out a while ago that I've sunk nearly €5000 into my rig since I gave up smoking, she casts an eye over my rig regularly to see if anything has been replaced..George Orwell is nothing compared to her..

 

[FLDSMDFR]

Why don't you consider the TX and TS-XW?
http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/products/tx-racing-wheel-leather-edition
http://www.thrustmaster.com/en_US/products/ts-xw-racer-sparco-p310-competition-mod
Since you'd like the Xbox One compatibility they are the best choices.

About your FFB concerns, the TMX could be disappointing, higher level wheels like the T300/TX and TS-PC/XW have stronger & more detailed FFB, and faster & smoother rotation.

The Xbox One compatibility is not something I'm too concerned about, but if I had to choose between PC/Xbox and PC/PS compatibility, I'd go with the Xbox because I don't own a PS. That said, even if it had Xbox compatibility, I doubt I'd ever use it given that I have all the games I want to use a wheel with are on the PC.

I have looked at the TX (the VG TX with the leather rim to be exact), but heard the T300 FFB was noticeably stronger - and interestingly enough, the TX is roughly $100 more than the VG T300 Alcantara edition (which comes with the same pedals, an arguably nicer rim, and the stronger base?).

Although what I believe would be a solid choice, the TS-XW is simply too expensive for me, the cheapest I can find it is on Amazon at $760, not including postage. Also, given they only come with the T3PA pedals, for roughly the same price as the TS-XW, I could get the TS-PC and the T3PA-Pro pedals (or even the Fanatec CSL Elite LC pedals if I could find the 3-pedal variant on its own).

Thoughts?

Excellent research on your part, I shared a similar wheel the Wingman Formula Force years back, and having recently upgraded from the Forza CSR to include load cell pedals it is a marked improvement I would highly recommend it if it is within your budget.

The whole Fanatec CSR range is well out of my budget unfortunately, but thanks for the advice.

I upgraded my T300 to a TS-PC racer a few weeks ago, and can thoroughly recommend both of them. The TS-PC is a big step up from the T300, but also costs a lot more. The TM T3PA pedals are ok, but not a patch on the T3PA-Pros.
If you can possibly stretch to it, the Fanatec CS v3's with the load cell brake are the dogs bollocks, night and day difference between the rubber cone mod with the TM's, and a proper load cell like the Fanatecs.
The Fanatec elite pedals are also ok, but the CS v3s are well worth the extra money. Once you've driven with a load cell, there's no going back. The only thing that made me hesitate about the TS-PC racer was the Fisher-Price look wheel, but a bit of work and some 3M carbon look foil soon took care of that

What makes the T3PA-Pro that much better than the T3PA? The metal base?
The million-dollar question is, if I end up getting one of the TM setups that include the T3PA's, will I end up yearning to replace them with the Pro variant, or even the CSL Elite LC pedals?

Basically you're wanting to take the jump from entry-level to least-cost enthusiast level. Any of the wheels you've listed should be fine, so it really comes down to pedals and the general opinion is that good pedals make more of a difference than the wheel will at this level.

So... my advice is to pick the least cost wheel at this level and get the Fanatec pedals (CSL-LC). The Fanatec pedals, however, will need some sort of hard-mount solution. Something like a box that locks your chair in place, so neither will slide when you use the brakes.

The higher quality your purchase is, the easier it will be to sell off if you decide this hobby isn't to your liking.

Interesting point about mounting the pedals, it's not something I had considered in my calculations. Not really sure how one would do this on the cheap (short of building a wooden/PVC sim rig)...

TSPC Racer is absolutely solid and a good wheel, I only sold mine to get a huge upgrade in an OSW.

Thanks for the input

 

[GuitarTech]

FLDSMDFR asked: "What makes the T3PA-Pro that much better than the T3PA? The metal base?"

The fullmetal construction, which makes them very stable(they weigh over 7Kg), and the fact that you can use them both as standing pedals (like the T3PAs), or turn them round and have hanging GT type pedals as well. And the conical brake mod, which is not as good as a load cell, but a whole lot better than just having the pot, without any resistance. As if in real life your brakes need bleeding
But, I have to say: if you can save enough money, go load cell. It's the only thing that even remotly feels like a real car. Just my 2cents..

 

[FLDSMDFR]

FLDSMDFR asked: "What makes the T3PA-Pro that much better than the T3PA? The metal base?"

The fullmetal construction, which makes them very stable(they weigh over 7Kg), and the fact that you can use them both as standing pedals (like the T3PAs), or turn them round and have hanging GT type pedals as well. And the conical brake mod, which is not as good as a load cell, but a whole lot better than just having the pot, without any resistance. As if in real life your brakes need bleeding
But, I have to say: if you can save enough money, go load cell. It's the only thing that even remotly feels like a real car. Just my 2cents..

I had forgotten about the fact that you can invert them. However I thought that both the T3PA and the Pro came with the conical brake mod?
I too would love to go with an LC pedal, but I can't seem to find the CSL Elite LC pedals on their own. Amazon only has the 3-pedal variant bundled with the Elite wheel.

 

[ricerracer]

I'd love a DD wheel too, but I only have a GT Omega rig, and I'd be afraid that a DD wheel would turn it inside out
And I'm not sure how well my wife would handle the cost of one, plus an 80/20 rig to bolt it to. Since she found out a while ago that I've sunk nearly €5000 into my rig since I gave up smoking, she casts an eye over my rig regularly to see if anything has been replaced..George Orwell is nothing compared to her..

Haha I bolted my DD wheel onto my simetik k2 rig, works fine!! Things solid.

 

[Ricky78]

The Xbox One compatibility is not something I'm too concerned about, but if I had to choose between PC/Xbox and PC/PS compatibility, I'd go with the Xbox because I don't own a PS. That said, even if it had Xbox compatibility, I doubt I'd ever use it given that I have all the games I want to use a wheel with are on the PC.

I have looked at the TX (the VG TX with the leather rim to be exact), but heard the T300 FFB was noticeably stronger - and interestingly enough, the TX is roughly $100 more than the VG T300 Alcantara edition (which comes with the same pedals, an arguably nicer rim, and the stronger base?).

Although what I believe would be a solid choice, the TS-XW is simply too expensive for me, the cheapest I can find it is on Amazon at $760, not including postage. Also, given they only come with the T3PA pedals, for roughly the same price as the TS-XW, I could get the TS-PC and the T3PA-Pro pedals (or even the Fanatec CSL Elite LC pedals if I could find the 3-pedal variant on its own).

Thoughts?

Well, if you own an Xbox One you probably own also Forza Motorsport 5, 6 or 7 and they are much better played with a wheel.

The TX and T300 share basically the same wheel base, the main difference is the range of rotation (900/1080° cause the different console compatibility), I own both (plus a TMX that I'm selling) and the FFB is exactly the same.

And yes, both T3PA and T3PA-Pro include the conical brake mod, the only pedals from TM that doesn't have it are those included with the old T500.

My advice buying TM products is to wait for some deals so you can save a lot of money, at least here in Europe they are often discounted.

 

[FLDSMDFR]

Well, if you own an Xbox One you probably own also Forza Motorsport 5, 6 or 7 and they are much better played with a wheel.

The TX and T300 share basically the same wheel base, the main difference is the range of rotation (900/1080° cause the different console compatibility), I own both (plus a TMX that I'm selling) and the FFB is exactly the same.

And yes, both T3PA and T3PA-Pro include the conical brake mod, the only pedals from TM that doesn't have it are those included with the old T500.

My advice buying TM products is to wait for some deals so you can save a lot of money, at least here in Europe they are often discounted.

Ironically I don't own any Forza games (or racing games for that matter) for the One. I own Forza 3 for the 360 but never play it.

Thanks for clearing that up. Even so, the Alcantara T300 appeals to me more - I prefer the rim, and definitely prefer the price

I'll keep an eye out for sales and coupons. Thanks again.

 

[Ricky78]

I agree, the 599XX Evo 30 is better than the Leather 28 GT so in your case the T300 bundle is probably better, but if you want the best rim then you should really consider the TS-XW: yes, it's a bit overpriced (IMHO a wheel of that quality should come with the T3PA-Pro), but the Sparco P310 rim is awesome and it adds a lot of value compared to the other bundles.
For me the Sparco R383 was a game changer, and if the P310 was available separately I would buy it too!

BTW in my opinion the T3PA is a good pedal set for its price, OK it doesn't have the load cell but the brake mod works well and the only concern could be the durability.

P.S.: keep in mind that with Alcantara and suede rims you need gloves, so another thing to add in the shopping list.

P.P.S: check the new TS-PC Racer Ferrari 488 Challenge Edition.
https://www.alternate.co.uk/html/product/1397148

The real steering wheel: http://www.caricos.com/cars/f/ferrari/2017_ferrari_488_challenge/

 

[red bullet]

I'm considering upgrading my TM T100 wheel and pedals, which I already repaired once. I considered TM and Fanatec. Going all the way with Fanatec is just too costly atm, but the load cells appear to be really good. So I decided to just go with better pedals from Fanatec for now and later on buy a new wheel. For the wheel I'm still undecided. The TM's are pretty good for their price.
So I'd good for Fanatec load cells and a 'cheaper' TM wheel as a starter.

 

[GuitarTech]

I had forgotten about the fact that you can invert them. However I thought that both the T3PA and the Pro came with the conical brake mod?
I too would love to go with an LC pedal, but I can't seem to find the CSL Elite LC pedals on their own. Amazon only has the 3-pedal variant bundled with the Elite wheel.

My bad, I thought only the Pro pedals had the conical brake mod, i wasn't aware that the T3PA's had it too
btw: you can buy the pedals seperately here:
https://www.fanatec.com/eu-de/pedale/csl-elite-pedale-lc-eu.html
or if you live over the pond, Fanatec USA has them too