Logitech DFGT FFB deadzone

[bapt33]

Hi,

Its been 2 days i look everywhere on google to find how to get rid of the FFB deadzone in the center of my wheel . (DFGT)

The old trick seems to set overall strenght in logitech profiler to 107% , but i dont feel any difference vs 100% and i think it break linearity.

I play F1 2020 and ACC, so cannot do the LUT trick with wheelcheck.

Im just looking for feedback about people using DFGT to try to get rid of this FFB deadzone.

My logitech profiler settings are :

Overall strenght 100%, all other 0%.

allow game to ajust settings ticked.

In F1 2020 overall strenght 70% and damping strenght 0.

I know ACC as the minimum force feature, but i dont feel any difference.

 

[St3fan]

Ultimately the dead zone feeling is the hardware limitation and can't be resolved completely. The 107% trick didn't help me either when I was on G27.
But I am pretty sure you can do the LUT trick with ACC. There is a setting in the controller options.

 

[bapt33]

allright i will look on it. ive done the LUT test it show the green curve at the end which is the original and th red curve which is the suggested enhanced feedback. but the green curve is the original feedback curve outside of the game, i mean in F1 2020 i use 70 feedback force, so do i need set feedback strenght to 0 in f1 2020 to get the same feedback force as the green curve show in LUT ? im a bit confused about that since LUT test the wheel outside of the game and in the profiler "allow game to change setting " is checked

this what LUT say for 360° setting (profiler/LUT) , if the green curve is the default curve of my wheel, it seems not bad:

 

[bapt33]

Ive managed to import the LUT file in the config folder in ACC by following some tutorials.

Ive got last question, once importing the LUT file in the ACC config folder, what about the ACC feedback setting in game? i mean gain or damping strenght? im actually 90% gain, 100% damping effect, minimum force 0%, they show how import LUT in tutorials but no one talk about ACC feedback settings after import.

 

[St3fan]

Glad that you figured out LUT for ACC. That curve looked not bad. I remember there was a thread on Assetto Corsa forum where everybody shared the WheelCheck result of their own wheels, and DFGT generally showed better curve shape than G27.

I no longer have a Logitech wheel when ACC launched so I don't have experience with damping. In AC I had all effects turned off and let FFBClip decide the gain. I found this post for G29 on ACC official forum, and that might be a good starting point:

https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/logitech-g29-acc-setup.64181/

 

[bapt33]

Glad that you figured out LUT for ACC. That curve looked not bad. I remember there was a thread on Assetto Corsa forum where everybody shared the WheelCheck result of their own wheels, and DFGT generally showed better curve shape than G27.

I no longer have a Logitech wheel when ACC launched so I don't have experience with damping. In AC I had all effects turned off and let FFBClip decide the gain. I found this post for G29 on ACC official forum, and that might be a good starting point:

https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/logitech-g29-acc-setup.64181/

I finnally used the @RasmusP LUT and it feel WAYYYY better than the wheelcheck LUT, more strenght and no more deadzone, while with the wheelcheck LUT the car seems very light and it seems it doesnt use all the strenght of my wheel even at 100% gain in game, i think thats what we see on the graph, the green wheelcheck curve seems low compare to the default one, i really dont liked it, RasmusP LUT is perfect i really feel the car

 

[St3fan]

I finnally used the @RasmusP LUT and it feel WAYYYY better than the wheelcheck LUT, more strenght and no more deadzone, while with the wheelcheck LUT the car seems very light and it seems it doesnt use all the strenght of my wheel even at 100% gain in game, i think thats what we see on the graph, the green wheelcheck curve seems low compare to the default one, i really dont liked it, RasmusP LUT is perfect i really feel the car

Glad to see that you have got a good setting. I know this LUT made by Rasmus but I didn't have a chance to try it

 

[bapt33]

Glad to see that you have got a good setting. I know this LUT made by Rasmus but I didn't have a chance to try it

Its only for logitech wheel since they have awful FFB (compare to other) with a awful deadzone FFB in the center, this LUT fix what logitech havnt fix by themself haha, next step is the t300

 

[RasmusP]

Just for you info:
My LUTs don't change the ffb shape. They are really only a smooth and curved minimum ffb setting to remove the dead zone.
After the ffb gets stronger than the dead zone (roughly 5% for dfgt, 15% for G series), the ffb is just the default!

Here are pictures of it:
Ian's "default" LUT is the one from wheelcheck + LUT generator.

Ian's Custom Lut is a slightly weaker LUT since he requested it. Normally the LUTs end at 1.0|1.0.
Ian's lut ends with 1.0|0.7.

But as you can see it's a straight line after the dead zone and I don't have a nice post with pictures of the other luts ready for a quick quote
Here's the link to the full post:

Misc - RasmusP's LUTs for G27/29 and DFGT

Ok then there is something VERY wrong with your Assetto Corsa options! Let's start without any of my settings and just with the basic! Go into documents\Assetto Corsa\cfg\ff_post_process.ini ENABLED = 0 This deactivates the whole ff_post_process.ini! Just go ingame and in the steering...

www.racedepartment.com

Your current LUT looks like this:
View attachment 220093

What you see here is:
Horizontal: the FFB output from Assetto Corsa
Vertical: the FFB that actually gets to the Wheel after the LUT

So without a LUT the FFB would look like this:

View attachment 220095

What you see when you compare them is that your current LUT tried to get rid of the deadzone with one big JUMP. That's the notch you feel when you turn in after going down a straight.
After that your FFB gets really light, almost no difference between 10% FFB and 50% FFB. I wouldn't recommend this. You lose a lot of feel for the grip level with this.
The moment your FFB reaches ~50% like when going over a bump while cornering, hitting a kerb, turn in a lot while being fast, whatever:
The FFB increases A LOT! Which will give you a heavy jolt into your hands.

What I'd recommend:
- smoothen the deadzone removal
- make the general curve smoother and a bit softer

Actually this wheelcheck-created-LUT looks pretty similar to what wheelcheck created for my G27.
In my narrow minded view the big problem with this is that Logitech programmed their driver to give you a linear feel into your hands. Wheelcheck measures it in a different way and the result doesn't feel "linear" at all!
So instead of going with pure math and measuring, I trust my hands! And my hands tell me:
If it looks linear, it feels linear!
Well, the deadzone apparently not

Too long didn't read, here comes what might suit you. Please try it, report back and we can work on it
If you have too much noise while standing still or going straight please reduce the
0.00|0.066 to 0.00|0.060 or even 0.050.

If you want an overall stronger FFB or the deadzone is still there:
lower the first value to 0.050 and raise the car gain (numpad +) until it feels nice.
View attachment 220128

 

[bapt33]

Just for you info:
My LUTs don't change the ffb shape. They are really only a smooth and curved minimum ffb setting to remove the dead zone.
After the ffb gets stronger than the dead zone (roughly 5% for dfgt, 15% for G series), the ffb is just the default!

Here are pictures of it:
Ian's "default" LUT is the one from wheelcheck + LUT generator.

Ian's Custom Lut is a slightly weaker LUT since he requested it. Normally the LUTs end at 1.0|1.0.
Ian's lut ends with 1.0|0.7.

But as you can see it's a straight line after the dead zone and I don't have a nice post with pictures of the other luts ready for a quick quote
Here's the link to the full post:

Misc - RasmusP's LUTs for G27/29 and DFGT

Ok then there is something VERY wrong with your Assetto Corsa options! Let's start without any of my settings and just with the basic! Go into documents\Assetto Corsa\cfg\ff_post_process.ini ENABLED = 0 This deactivates the whole ff_post_process.ini! Just go ingame and in the steering...

www.racedepartment.com

I see, i havnt play a lot with default FFB of my wheel, im better to say your LUT is stronger than the wheelcheck LUT. According to wheelcheck, this is the default FFB curve of my wheel (red curve) for 360 degrees. We can clearly see the deadzone, and its not very linear.
while the LUTgenerator curve (green curve) seems weak and not very linear also.

 

[RasmusP]

I see, i havnt play a lot with default FFB of my wheel, im better to say your LUT is stronger than the wheelcheck LUT. According to wheelcheck, this is the default FFB curve of my wheel (red curve) for 360 degrees. We can clearly see the deadzone, and its not very linear.
while the LUTgenerator curve (green curve) seems weak and not very linear also.

View attachment 442446

Yeah but from my own experience of feeling the wheel with my hands:
The default ffb IS linear!
But giving ffb pushes and letting the wheel throw against its own friction is not linear...

So what your lut does is getting rid of the dead zone (but only 1 step instead of my smooth curve) and then lowering the ffb from 30-60% (roughly judging from the graph).

From my experience that just feels awful... As you said yourself. That doesn't feel linear. It feels just weak!

 

[bapt33]

Yeah but from my own experience of feeling the wheel with my hands:
The default ffb IS linear!
But giving ffb pushes and letting the wheel throw against its own friction is not linear...

So what your lut does is getting rid of the dead zone (but only 1 step instead of my smooth curve) and then lowering the ffb from 30-60% (roughly judging from the graph).

From my experience that just feels awful... As you said yourself. That doesn't feel linear. It feels just weak!

EXACTLY ! the feel is weak and you cant feel the weight of the car, the LUTgenerator curve is just under using the wheel ... i dont understand how people are happy with that , even more when its meant to be for logitech wheels ...

 

[RasmusP]

even more when its meant to be for logitech wheels ...

It's not, that the weird thing about this all...
Wheelcheck is just a testing tool from iRacing afaik, not meant for any specific wheel.
And the creator of the lut generator never had a Logitech wheel. He just wanted to correct little non-linear spots in his wheel and probably is a good programmer so did some quick coding stuff and had the lut generator ready.

I mean in theory it's awesome. You use Wheelcheck, it automatically creates the opposite curve and you're done.

But it's just not really working for Logitech wheels and everyone is going crazy about it.

It's the same as every damn guide out there recommends to put damper and spring to 0%.
Spring isn't used by any modern sim! It doesn't matter what you set for it.

Damper is another story. In dirt rally the wheel and Tyre weight settings are using the damper ffb channel.
In assetto corsa it's used for the standing still rubber feeling (which feels awful with Logitech wheels but awesome with my fanatec wheel!).

So in ac, I like to put the damper to 0% too.
With my fanatec, I have it at 100%!

But even in most fanatec guides, the damper is set to 0%.

One day I'll go insane about this...

 

[bapt33]

It's not, that the weird thing about this all...
Wheelcheck is just a testing tool from iRacing afaik, not meant for any specific wheel.
And the creator of the lut generator never had a Logitech wheel. He just wanted to correct little non-linear spots in his wheel and probably is a good programmer so did some quick coding stuff and had the lut generator ready.

I mean in theory it's awesome. You use Wheelcheck, it automatically creates the opposite curve and you're done.

But it's just not really working for Logitech wheels and everyone is going crazy about it.

It's the same as every damn guide out there recommends to put damper and spring to 0%.
Spring isn't used by any modern sim! It doesn't matter what you set for it.

Damper is another story. In dirt rally the wheel and Tyre weight settings are using the damper ffb channel.
In assetto corsa it's used for the standing still rubber feeling (which feels awful with Logitech wheels but awesome with my fanatec wheel!).

So in ac, I like to put the damper to 0% too.
With my fanatec, I have it at 100%!

But even in most fanatec guides, the damper is set to 0%.

One day I'll go insane about this...

Yes on my DGFT i let spring and damper to 0%, spring put an unrealistic strenght to the wheel and steer become really heavy, and damper had strenght on steer on low speed its unrealistic too, i just set overall strenght to 100% and all other to 0%, even with 0% in game like f1 2020 there is a spring strenght the wheel back to center itself so dont even need set spring to 100% in logitech profiler.
i dont like those artificial effect and all games have their own spring and damping now.

For dirt rally 2.0 i dotn really know, some says put damper and spring 100% in logitech profiler, some other say 0%, need to try.

 

[RasmusP]

Yes on my DGFT i let spring and damper to 0%, spring put an unrealistic strenght to the wheel and steer become really heavy, and damper had strenght on steer on low speed its unrealistic too, i just set overall strenght to 100% and all other to 0%, even with 0% in game like f1 2020 there is a spring strenght the wheel back to center itself so dont even need set spring to 100% in logitech profiler.
i dont like those artificial effect and all games have their own spring and damping now.

For dirt rally 2.0 i dotn really know, some says put damper and spring 100% in logitech profiler, some other say 0%, need to try.

I think you are confusing the spring ffb channel with the self centering spring.
The spring ffb channel is not used and doesn't do any self centering stuff.
The self centering spring is another, separate setting that should be disabled.

Damper in ac is only active below 5 kp/h. So as soon as you not slowly rolling anymore, it's inactive.
It's not that unrealistic though. Imagine you put double the width, super soft slick tyres on your road car.
No power steering will be able to push the front wheels easily at very slow speeds.

The weird ffb in f1 2020 is in the main ffb channel, sadly. Spring channel isn't used, damper only for the wheel weight slider.

 

[bapt33]

there is two spring setting on the logitech profiler

Spring FFB channel is the first top under overall strenght?
and self centering spring the one to 0% on the picture?

in my case ive disable all those effect and just checked "enable centering spring in force feedback games"

Since i have the spring effect in all the games even with 0% spring in profiler, i stay like this.
Real question is, if i set spring to 100%, is there gonna be the spring effect from the game + the spring effect from logitech profiler? or set to 100% just mean increase the spring strenght in game?

im confused about that thats why i let to 0%, i think the second spring effect (the one to 0% on the picture) if i set it to 100% it increase spring strenght and it become hard to steer.

 

[RasmusP]

Spring FFB channel is the first top under overall strenght?
and self centering spring the one to 0% on the picture?

Spring FFB channel = 1
Self centering spring = 3
Activating Self centering spring = 2

btw, 4 should be activated. Mostly doesn't change stuff but according to some developers, giving the games access to the settings is considered the default.

in my case ive disable all those effect and just checked "enable centering spring in force feedback games"

Don't do this. The Self Centering Spring (2+3) is completely artificial. It has NOTHING to do with force feedback!
That self centering spring is for games WITHOUT ffb so that you can steer in these games like you would do with the joystick of a gamepad.

Since i have the spring effect in all the games even with 0% spring in profiler, i stay like this.

What do you mean with "having the spring effect". Games like Assetto Corsa don't use ANY spring effects or the spring ffb channel. The actual calculated physics of the front tyres are pushing the wheel towards the center. It's called "Self Aligning Torque" and this "SAT" is ALWAYS in the main ffb channel: "Overall Effects Strength".

if i set spring to 100%, is there gonna be the spring effect from the game + the spring effect from logitech profiler?

You should disable the Self Centering Spring (2). That makes sure that NOTHING comes from the Logitech profiler!
IF any game send some ffb into the Spring FFB channel (1), then the Spring ffb channel percentage only allows that ffb or lowers it. But the Spring ffb channel will NEVER do anything on its own!

or set to 100% just mean increase the spring strenght in game?

100% means that whatever ffb is sent into the spring ffb channel, will be as strong as the developers wanted it to be.
If you use 50%, this sent ffb will only be half as strong.

i think the second spring effect (the one to 0% on the picture) if i set it to 100% it increase spring strenght and it become hard to steer.

That second spring effect (3), the self centering spring, is not increasing anything from the game. It's purely a centering effect that has nothing to do with any game.
That's why it should be disabled. It's like your co-driver would constantly push the steering wheel into the center position no matter what the car actually does or you want.


Sorry for the "unfriendly" tone. Difficult to be super clear in English and sounding nice at the same time.
Good that you're asking these question. Most don't and write into guides that you should do this or that, which creates this bullsh*t myth of putting the spring ffb channel to 0% when NO modern game uses that ffb channel anyway.

The self centering spring however should ALWAYS be disabled and set to 0%!

The damper ffb channel needs to be adjusted to your liking. I personally don't like the "fake rubber effect" in Assetto Corsa with Logitech wheels. It feels great on a Fanatec wheel though.

For Dirt Rally or F1 games, you have the "wheel weight" or "tyre weight" or even "wheel friction" settings. THESE are sending ffb into the Damper ffb channel. I would always keep damper at 100% with these games and adjust the settings in the games to your liking.

I really dislike the fact, that you can only adjust the standing still rubber effect in AC and ACC in the ini files and not in the game.
It would clear a lot of things up if you could just play around with that setting...

If you're interested, here is the setting for AC:
\steamapps\common\assettocorsa\system\cfg\assetto_corsa.ini

I have the damper ffb channel at 100% for Dirt Rally, WRC 9 etc but I wanted the standing still rubber effect in AC to be a bit less strong. So I've set it to 80% = 0.8

 

[bapt33]

View attachment 442524

Spring FFB channel = 1
Self centering spring = 3
Activating Self centering spring = 2

btw, 4 should be activated. Mostly doesn't change stuff but according to some developers, giving the games access to the settings is considered the default.

Don't do this. The Self Centering Spring (2+3) is completely artificial. It has NOTHING to do with force feedback!
That self centering spring is for games WITHOUT ffb so that you can steer in these games like you would do with the joystick of a gamepad.

What do you mean with "having the spring effect". Games like Assetto Corsa don't use ANY spring effects or the spring ffb channel. The actual calculated physics of the front tyres are pushing the wheel towards the center. It's called "Self Aligning Torque" and this "SAT" is ALWAYS in the main ffb channel: "Overall Effects Strength".


You should disable the Self Centering Spring (2). That makes sure that NOTHING comes from the Logitech profiler!
IF any game send some ffb into the Spring FFB channel (1), then the Spring ffb channel percentage only allows that ffb or lowers it. But the Spring ffb channel will NEVER do anything on its own!

100% means that whatever ffb is sent into the spring ffb channel, will be as strong as the developers wanted it to be.
If you use 50%, this sent ffb will only be half as strong.

That second spring effect (3), the self centering spring, is not increasing anything from the game. It's purely a centering effect that has nothing to do with any game.
That's why it should be disabled. It's like your co-driver would constantly push the steering wheel into the center position no matter what the car actually does or you want.


Sorry for the "unfriendly" tone. Difficult to be super clear in English and sounding nice at the same time.
Good that you're asking these question. Most don't and write into guides that you should do this or that, which creates this bullsh*t myth of putting the spring ffb channel to 0% when NO modern game uses that ffb channel anyway.

The self centering spring however should ALWAYS be disabled and set to 0%!

The damper ffb channel needs to be adjusted to your liking. I personally don't like the "fake rubber effect" in Assetto Corsa with Logitech wheels. It feels great on a Fanatec wheel though.

For Dirt Rally or F1 games, you have the "wheel weight" or "tyre weight" or even "wheel friction" settings. THESE are sending ffb into the Damper ffb channel. I would always keep damper at 100% with these games and adjust the settings in the games to your liking.

I really dislike the fact, that you can only adjust the standing still rubber effect in AC and ACC in the ini files and not in the game.
It would clear a lot of things up if you could just play around with that setting...

If you're interested, here is the setting for AC:
\steamapps\common\assettocorsa\system\cfg\assetto_corsa.ini

View attachment 442526

I have the damper ffb channel at 100% for Dirt Rally, WRC 9 etc but I wanted the standing still rubber effect in AC to be a bit less strong. So I've set it to 80% = 0.8

allright thanks for the clearance, when i say the spring effect, i mean as you say "self aligning torque" and it send to the main FFB channel "overall" i understand now. thats why i have this spring as i say but in reality its the self aligning torque and its right in F1 2020 and ACC this effect is send through the main FFB channel, completly clear now.

I will then uncheck the self centering spring (2), since its completly artificial.

spring FFB channel is not used by games then, so set it to 100% or 0% will not change anything if im right. Unltil game send FFB spring through the spring FFB channel, but i dont think F1 2020 do that, so maybe let it to 100%.

and for the standing still rubber effect from ACC, if i undertsand well, this effect is send through the damper FFB channel from logitech? (under spring effect strenght (1) )
So you set damper strenght 100% in logitech profiler , then ajust it in the .ini file to use it to 80% ?

 

[RasmusP]

allright thanks for the clearance, when i say the spring effect, i mean as you say "self aligning torque" and it send to the main FFB channel "overall" i understand now. thats why i have this spring as i say but in reality its the self aligning torque and its right in F1 2020 and ACC this effect is send through the main FFB channel, completly clear now.

I will then uncheck the self centering spring (2), since its completly artificial.

spring FFB channel is not used by games then, so set it to 100% or 0% will not change anything if im right. Unltil game send FFB spring through the spring FFB channel, but i dont think F1 2020 do that, so maybe let it to 100%.

and for the standing still rubber effect from ACC, if i undertsand well, this effect is send through the damper FFB channel from logitech? (under spring effect strenght (1) )
So you set damper strenght 100% in logitech profiler , then ajust it in the .ini file to use it to 80% ?

That's all correct sir

For ac and acc I have nothing against putting the damper ffb channel to 0%. Or 10% or 50%.
Some people think it's super weird when the wheel has zero ffb when standing still so they like the rubber effect.
On my fanatec csw wheel it actually feels like rubber.
But on my g27 it felt like sandpaper in the ffb motor. Urghs!

With my fanatec I'm only using 1 profile for most games so I keep the damper channel at 100% and then dial in the weight setting for dirt rally or wrc and adjust the rubber effect in the ini (ac) and json files (acc).

But I think it's important that more people understand why and when they should lower the damper channel and that it's not some evil thing that wants to slow down ffb wheels

With a Logitech wheel I would put the damper setting in ac and acc to 10-20%.
So your wheel is not without any ffb when standing still but you also don't have this awful sandpaper feel...

 

[bapt33]

That's all correct sir

For ac and acc I have nothing against putting the damper ffb channel to 0%. Or 10% or 50%.
Some people think it's super weird when the wheel has zero ffb when standing still so they like the rubber effect.
On my fanatec csw wheel it actually feels like rubber.
But on my g27 it felt like sandpaper in the ffb motor. Urghs!

With my fanatec I'm only using 1 profile for most games so I keep the damper channel at 100% and then dial in the weight setting for dirt rally or wrc and adjust the rubber effect in the ini (ac) and json files (acc).

But I think it's important that more people understand why and when they should lower the damper channel and that it's not some evil thing that wants to slow down ffb wheels

With a Logitech wheel I would put the damper setting in ac and acc to 10-20%.
So your wheel is not without any ffb when standing still but you also don't have this awful sandpaper feel...

i see, yes its confusing for a lot of people hopefully you cleared it in my head and its all clear now !
thanks a lot, ive see so many different advice on internet it was very confusing !

I will set a custom profile for ACC in logitech profiler and then adjust the damper to 10-20% as you suggested.

For F1 2020, there is a ingame setting called "wheel damper" , the real question, is this effect send through the overall FFB channel or through the damper FFB channel from logitech profiler?

I could give a try, set wheel damper to 50% in game, and see if there is a difference when i set damper FFB to 0 or 100 in logitech profiler, if there is no difference, this mean the wheel damper from F1 2020 is sent throught the overall FFB channel