Lamborghini Murcielago 2001 V2.0

[Alex Forbin]

I can back you up on your observations Dave. I've owned and driven a number of mid engine cars and one thing they all have in common is the ability to swap ends quickly if you brake heavily late in the turn. I will have to say that it's a bit more pronounced than it should be though.
The current ini works much better though as a 2wd, the 4wd is giving me some very strange forces even when a car is not touching the ground, so no one blame Dave he has a good reputation for researching things thoroughly. Unfortunately Racers Physics are still not to the point where we can put in accurate data and expect accurate results.

Alex Forbin

 

[Stereo]

Generally you need to remember that the Murcielago is a big heavy mid-engined supercar, and it's gonna be a handful if you take liberties like late braking and steering into bends at speed.

In real life, ESP will help, and put the car into mild understeer in the condition you are having... but we don't have that in Racer. Soooo the solution is either drive it like it's dangerous, or for me to tune it to be safer... the former is ideal considering ESP might be just round the corner via scripting... the latter isn't ideal because then it's not so rewarding to drive.

Hmm... scripting can affect front/rear brake bias, but for ESP we need script output for each corner individually, to increase/decrease braking strength as we go into corners. I guess it'd be an ongoing thing - compare current to ideal yaw, tweak diagonal wheel brake strengths to fit, and keep it up until the car's under control again.

From the way Wikipedia describes traction control, this doesn't sound too hard to implement, once we have the right inputs/outputs available. Some tweaks to adjust the strength of compensation, and maybe add a keystroke to turn it on and off, and it'd be good to go.

 

[camsinny]

Instead of tweaking the bias, couldn't we just pass a braking factor to each wheel?

 

[Mr Whippy]

Instead of tweaking the bias, couldn't we just pass a braking factor to each wheel?

Thats what I'd prefer, but for now, the only known thing to control the brake bias is the "brakebalance" console command.


We have a big list of variables for things to read, but precious little documentation on what we can then send back out that is genuinely useful for cars. Just a bit on diffs, a bit on lights on off and auto or manual (that don't seem to work), and thats about it really.


If/when we get decent controls back out of scripting to impact car.ini values, then ESP and all that stuff should be a piece of cake


ESP, EBD, ABS, TCS etc, are all really simple. It's just that in real life we don't have the luxury of all the internal variables Racer has.

Ie, in real life we only really have wheel speeds, steer position, and yaw sensor, then there is lots of maths getting that into a bunch of things that can determine slip ratio/angles and so on and so on.

In Racer we can just grab data like that really easily, so the maths becomes much simpler.


I'm looking forward to making some decent launch controls... just my worry is fudging things with the existing complex clutch management built into Racer.
I tried last night, via the console commands "manual" and "automatic" to set manual (no auto upshift), while the wheels were slipping, but it still went to 2nd, then 3rd despite being manual and sat doing a burnout... hmmmm...

So, basically, I think we need some really good strong controls of car.ini and controller variables (both adjusting them or setting them), to do some of these ideas really well.

Once we have them though, things can be really really nicely done.

Dave

 

[gtpdzbiz]

hmmm, just wondering if the script will perform better using physics steps other than paint steps

 

[Mr Whippy]

It depends which script it is I guess.

Afaik, the issues with the power steering one is that racer.ini holds the I/O speed of the device, and it seems that that is the limitation at the default 20ms... 5ms made it much smoother.

Also, if the physics steps are too often, you'll get even faster ff rate changes which is almost inverse to what you want.


What I want to do is just poll the wheel pos maybe at 50ms, get a velocity from that, then set friction wrt to the wheel velocity, but limit the rate of change of the friction (damp it basically)

You don't really need that fast a system for that I don't think. Back out, the friction setting update speed is limited to the racer.ini setting again.

For ABS/ESP etc, probably having it faster than the painting is better, but not sure really. Some older cars probably only run maybe 10hz, while some modern ones might be 100 or 1000hz for such systems!

Dave

 

[MitchVL]

I have added a brakefactor function ! per wheel obviously ...

Let's just stick to the essentials for now ... dynamically adjusting car.ini seems like a lot of work on my side

 

[Mr Whippy]

Brakefactor per wheel sounds like a great move for EBD/ABS systems for most modern cars!



However, for ESP, ideally, you want brakefactor per wheel that can be applied while the controller is generating no brake input (ie, the car can brake with no input from the driver to start with)


I'm not sure how hard that might be... probably again just factor from 0 > 1 where you add controller value to the requested factor, limiting it to 1 (so you can't get extra brake force than 1)

It seems some of the nicest functions might just be giving us control like that over controller.ini inputs, so changing gear via script (for better automatic gearboxes), clutching, braking and throttle adjustments for launch controls, ABS systems and TCS systems a bit more advanced than Ruuds current implementations.


Is a simple factor of the car.ini value relatively easy? Ie, car.ini value is 10, so you can send out 0.1 from the script to get car.ini value to be 1, or send out 10 from the script to get it to be 100...

I guess it's just adding those factors into the physics engine at the right place and making sure Racer reads them every step if present?!

Hmmmm

Dave

 

[Stereo]

Hmm... I guess it's a question of how the brakefactor is added in. I think the easiest to work with EBD/ABS/ESC(ESP) would be to just have a per-wheel addition to the controller brake value. So eg. brakefactor=0.1 means that for a controller at 50%, the wheel ends up at 60% braking. Or if brakefactor=-0.1 (more typical of ABS) the wheel drops to 40% braking.

Haven't really fooled around with car scripts yet, cause I don't have a FF wheel... maybe it's time to make an investment

 

[MitchVL]

It is possible to make most car.ini values dynamic, but some variables depend on others, so if you change some variables, other variables must be recalculated.

I rather focus on the more important ones ... I will see what i can do about adjusting input.

 

[Mr Whippy]

Yeah.

All considered it's probably best that we consider certain ones that are the most valuable at first, and see how it goes.

Well, I'd really love being able to adjust already input values for throttle and brakes (ie, adjust the inputted value that Racer then sees)... so we can do better 'soft' TCS and per-wheel ABS etc...

Not sure what others think to that?



Per wheel brake factoring is in, so thats cool.

Perhaps a throttle factoring. Not sure if that is best as an absolute reduction (throttle input = 0.5, cut factor = 0.25, result = 0.5-0.25 = 0.25), or relative (throttle input = 0.5, cut factor = 0.5, result = 0.5*0.5 = 0.25)

Hmmm... what do others think to the throttling adjustment as something to be added?



And just for me with the Lamborghini, I'd like the engine max torque and per wheel power_gearing to be adjustable, so I can fudge some awd biasing depending on yaw/steer angle...


Is there any chance of a list somewhere of all the inputs thus far? Racer.nl has a list but it's missing some. I wonder if there are others we don't yet know about


Many thanks

Dave

 

[QuadCoreMax]

Yeah.

All considered it's probably best that we consider certain ones that are the most valuable at first, and see how it goes.

Well, I'd really love being able to adjust already input values for throttle and brakes (ie, adjust the inputted value that Racer then sees)... so we can do better 'soft' TCS and per-wheel ABS etc...

Not sure what others think to that?

I don't use much TCS & ABS, driving it without assist makes more fun imo.

Is there any chance of a list somewhere of all the inputs thus far? Racer.nl has a list but it's missing some. I wonder if there are others we don't yet know about

Many thanks

Dave

I was thinking yesterday that Racer.nl needs quicker updates, so an idea would be that everyone here can provide with some new content approved by Mitch/Ruud, so that developers know exactly all the features & code to maintain cars & tracks in a more updated way, a bit like Wikipedia...

What do you think ?

& maybe also create a new section for examples of shaders, scripts, pacejka etc... on
racer.nl\examples

@Dave

Since it's an update, maybe it's time to build an interior & place some pilot in there ?!
Was also thinking about placing a real suspension system like the Baja, but since it's all hidden behind the wheels, that finally doesn't make much sense on these racing cars, still I'm quite excited to do it on a buggy like DIRT1/2. Love dynamical objects !

 

[Mr Whippy]

Hehe, an interior was planned, but they are not trivial to make.

Ultimately the whole car could do with a rebuild as it's quite old now. I could throw in a converted interior, but then it's not as viable to release or have as a default Racer car.
An LP640 would be cool to have, make the vents move, the rear spoiler come up etc.

I *could* add the front wiper relatively easily and make that move... if that will satisfy your need for a movable on the car


I'm working on new cars anyway. Both need a good visible driver (open tops), so that will be fun! One is a BMW Z4, the other a fantasy open topped LMP type car

Dave

 

[boomer541]

Generic models are really great to watch move, BUT trailing links are impossible to make as they won't work right.

I've post that fact several times and hope that Ruud or MitchVL will fix.

 

[Christopher Junkins]

Great car, but I'm having an issue with it atm that I'm not having with other cars:

It isn't responding to the throttle. It's not going anywhere. I know it's not the sim, nor is it the wheel itself... everything works fine in other cars.

Mabey something to do with the setup? Should I be selecting something besides manual? That's how I've got the game to run (auto-clutch, and manual gear changes)... What should I do as far as the config.exe is concerned? (I use the "flappy-paddle" type gear-shifter... works fine for "manual" elsewhere.

 

[KS95]

Started it? Press S? lol

 

[Christopher Junkins]

woops... is my face red!

LMAO.

N/m on the issue then I guess... egg on face/ epic face palm.

Now to see if I get any help on my low fps thread lol. cya round.

 

[patrickb]

Is there a non CG version for Mac OS X Racer 0.5.4.3 ?