KS Vintage @ Prato Short - Wednesday May 11th, 2011

Paul Hamwa · May 5, 2011

Server name: RACEDEPARTMENT.COM

Class: KS Vintage
Track: Prato Short
Weather: Dry
Race distance: 2 x 15 laps
Practice start time:19:00GMT
Qualification start time:19:15 GMT
Race start time: 19:30GMT

Server password: click here
Racing rules: click here

Sign-up list:

Adam Farmer
Senad Subasic
Sérgio Marques
Daniel Ouff
Vaggelis Theodoridis
Laurent Resende
Phil Hopkins
Nigel Atkins
Dave Stephenson
Tomas Torasen
Paul Thomas
Mark Oates
Yann Leprevotte
Ulus Usulanour
Can Ozcelik

Vaggelis Theodoridis · May 11, 2011

Thanks for the races guys,i really enjoyed the second one.
Senad it was me that i hited u? I remember that i was behind someone and in the left open turn(i think its the 6th turn thw wide one),we were side to side and i had the inside line and i undestand that the other guy had a lot of speed that took him of,in the grass(dont remember who was it).In my screen i never touched anybody,if i did im very sorry i didnt ment to

I saw what happend in the beggining...many cars out of road...

Dont give up guys...I can smell the patch is comin and then we will have many hours of racing side to side!
The video was 1 month before and the collision in the video was toooo good than its now so imagine how good it will be!!

Cant wait damn

Ps:guys u are very respectfull drivers,Laurent why u let me pass? It wasnt ur fault that i lost it mate

Senad Subasic · May 11, 2011

Vaggelis Theodoridis said:
Thanks for the races guys,i really enjoyed the second one.
Senad it was me that i hited u? I remember that i was behind someone and in the left open turn(i think its the 6th turn thw wide one),we were side to side and i had the inside line and i undestand that the other guy had a lot of speed that took him of,in the grass(dont remember who was it).In my screen i never touched anybody,if i did im very sorry i didnt ment to

Nope, I got stuck in sand at the last corner, long right.

Phil Hopkins · May 11, 2011

Thanks for the apology, Paul, but actually, your hit was the one hit I suffered today that wasn't actually your fault, but due to netcode. You were driving close, but straight, and NetKar decided we crashed.

No, I'm frustrated with the three other crashes that happened. In the first race, Can ran into the back of me. Guys, you can't drive the first laps of the race as if you are hotlapping, looking for your braking points and driving as if no one else is there. Cars in front of you are slowing because the cars in front of them are slowing. If you can't keep from running into the back of people, don't race.

Then, late in the race, as I caught up to Mark and passed him as he went wide in a turn, he came back and ran into the side of me. Luckily, it hurt him rather than me.

In race 2, Laurent decided to get a jump on the car in front of him by going around him on the inside and straight into the side of me. Laurent really knows better than this. And that's just the stuff that happened to me, not counting the other incidents that took others out of the race.

I think this is just the kind of driving that will happen if no one follows the gentleman's agreement, as Senad mentions, and if there is no punishment for bad behavior.

So, that's enough for me.

Tomas Torasen · May 11, 2011

I have to say. Please remember, as I just have been reminded by browsing this forum; this is an amazing community of drivers, that show respect and forgiveness.

In any game I've played, there is literally so many idiots who just dont care at all, and I would think that this net code bugs would bring much fuel into this bad tension that is normal. But in this game, and here at RD club races and in the league, there is only respect and understanding.
I dont believe anyone here intentionally ruins anyone's race, and this is the only place where I can say this.

Maybe iRacing has better netcode and penalty system. In netKar we have no penalty system, only the trust of each other, in races and in prorank. It's amazing that this actually works and keeps going.

So I really hope that this next update will give the possibilitys that we all hope for, because if any community deserves it it is this one.

Paul Thomas · May 11, 2011

Radiator are using NKWORLDS Kudos safety system for their league, maybe we can do the same?

Mark Oates · May 11, 2011

Ok, I take a turn wide, come back on track and hit Phil. When we connect, he races on and I spin out. My car is damaged, his car is fine. Not much different than what happened to me today, but whatever... apparently it deserves Phills comments I guess. So he comes here and calls me an IDIOT, and others STUPID, and that WE dont behave using a gentleman's code of conduct.

Look, I get it. Phils gets banged around and tossed off the track, and his day totally gets screwed. There is nothing more frustrating than minding your own business only to have someone come and totally screw you over. new guy, old guy.... doesn't matter it frustrating. I have been in his shoes and it doesn't feel very good. So I get it, and Phil... I really am sorry. I m new and I have much to learn. In fact Phil, there are many of us new guys who thought that club races where casual and that it might be a good place to learn.... and i admit gunning it out on lap one is very poor judgment. Bottom line, I don't believe anyone here is trying to be an idiot. Never the less it doesn't negate what your saying, and certainly my actions as well as other needs to be held accountable. This is good, so that we learn to be better.... . to that end you absolutely CORRECT. My issue is that i would prefer that you speak using the same gentleman like skill you exhibit on track.

Phil Hopkins · May 12, 2011

You're right Mark. I should have been more careful with my terms. I was out of line. Shouldn't have written while still so frustrated. In my defense, it was the sheer number of incidents in two short races that kind of pushed me over the edge. But calling names isn't helpful. I stand by the substance of my comments, but apologize for the name calling.

And what I mean by the "gentleman's code" is the technical term for the common agreement that if you cause an incident, you wait for the person you punt to regain his place ahead of you, even if that means you lose a lot of places.

If it's not too late to be helpful, the incident with you was the result of trying to get back on track a little too aggressively, particularly in these loose beasts. I've had my share of off track excursions, believe me, and have found that a slow and controlled re-entry usually serves me better, not to mention the others on the track. But, today, it only cost you. The slight damage I got didn't affect my finish.

To all, please accept my apologies for labeling others. The behavior i observed was problematic, but i should address the behavior and not label the person.

Senad Subasic · May 12, 2011

and that WE dont behave using a gentleman's code of conduct.
...
I m new and I have much to learn. In fact Phil, there are many of us new guys who thought that club races where casual and that it might be a good place to learn.... and i admit gunning it out on lap one is very poor judgment.

Just remember the racing rules here - wait for a safe gap before rejoining; if you hit and disadvantage someone, wait and give the position back, etc.

I didn't even get a sorry for getting hit in the back, and being buried in sand.

Mark Oates · May 12, 2011

Thanks Phil, water under the bridge, and thank for the advice. I knew to move slowly but i would be lying to say i have much experience with the vintage. So good point there. If nothing else, today reminds me of something i forgot about and that is being super aggressive usually only servers to bring about more disaster. Better to let up and make it to the next turn.

Anyway, i still believe that what your saying is straight on point, and should be in the foremost part of our mind when we roll. I think its important because of who your are. Clearly you have experience to offer others, yet it was frustrating enough to make you not want to come back. Bigger picture is that how often can we afford to irritate people enough that they want to leave? Anyone who continues to do these things and not learn is by all the technical definition.... an IDIOT. So thanks for making a point about all of this, even though perhaps it didn't come out the way you had wanted at the start. Point still valid, point still taken.

If you haven't yet learned from today's events.... don't be an idiot.

Senad Subasic · May 12, 2011

Race 2 was fun, Adam and myself:

Adam Farmer · May 12, 2011

The morning after the storm, a calm descends upon the ocean....

Thanks for the video Senad, it was great fun to see the battle once more!

The races are great for me to get used to the different cars. I practise quite a lot but a race forces me to be more careful to stay on the track, and this eventually leads to better consistancy, and better times. At the end of the night I felt that I could finally control the Vintage - a little!

I got hit on the first lap in both races, and so drove 28 laps with my steering wheel at about 20 degrees whilst driving straight. In the first race someone drove straight out of the sand into the side of me. In the seconds race I think netKar was more to blame. It's worth bearing in mind that 1) netKar had strange/wrong collisions, 2) the Vintage is tricky to control for many drivers. Some people were a little crazy last night, but netKar was a little crazy too.

Hopefully that update will come along soon and improve things. Good to see a full grid, and I'm already looking forward to next week's race...

Redvaliant · May 12, 2011

I drove race 1 with damage (carnage at turn3-4)so the car was a bloody handful the whole race but was still drivable.
Race 2 I - and another car- got jump start penalties for doing absolutely nothing....
anyway starting from the pits meant missing first lap madness so I had a few good races and got to 3rd I think. Very tough car to rive on point for 30 laps.
I have to echo the other comments about racing being very different to hotlapping, especially the opening lap, but maybe that's what these races are for, to get new ppl used to running in traffic.

Phil Hopkins · May 13, 2011

Here's the race start rules at another league I participate in. Perhaps something along these lines would be helpful here as well:

2. Race Starts

2.1 The start of every race can be the point where accidents can be the most damaging both for our competitors and our race series. An accident early on can put an end to the race for a large portion of the field. *************** expects that everyone take care not to be over aggressive on race starts or for the first laps of any event. Remember that these races are long and it is far more important to keep your cars in one piece than to pass a few competitors in the early going. In Road Racing, “The Start” is considered a chance to gain advantage or position over other competitors. Here at ************** that is not the case! “The Start” is an obstacle we must all attempt to overcome safely. Simply put, charging through the grid gaining positions, getting a great start, is not what race officials are hoping to see. All competitors enjoying a safe, controlled and timely start when the lights turn green is the action we expect.

2.2 In order to place some control over the possibility of first lap incidents we will consider the area between the “Start Line”, including the entire real grid, until the complettion of Lap 1 to be “The Orange Zone” where passing is to be conducted with extreme care during the first lap of any race. Should an incident occur because a driver chooses to pass in this “Orange Zone” the driver making the pass will be held responsible for the incident. Attempting to pass cars more than one row ahead is not only risky, but you should also ask yourself if you really should be there in the first place. The drivers in front of you were faster after all. All race starts will be reviewed by the Race Review Committee following the event and penalties will be issued to drivers who are considered to be at fault. Please note that a driver can cause an accident without making contact with another car.

Senad Subasic · May 13, 2011

Flying start was used in some GTR2 events I was in here. Either full throttle after turn 1, or after the whole lap has been done safely. I seriously think something like that should be used in the club, since damage is much more pronounced here.