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Discussion in 'Formula 1' started by leon_90, Sep 11, 2019.
People keep asking questions and expect that I can't find the answer.
5 lost years for Ferrari, the time is up for Vettel.
Bankruptcies, bad luck and breakdowns in Italy are called the "Vettelismo".
On the track Sebastian Vettel had already dismantled itself, the rest took over Italy's gazettes. After his disastrous Ferrari home race and 13th place in Monza, the four-time Formula 1 World Champion hailed only casual mockery - the newspapers instead sang songs of praise to the new darling. The end of the Vettel era in Maranello has ushered in, the era of Charles Leclerc has begun.
The victorious Ferrari rookie "conquered everything in less than six months: the Scuderia, the love of the fans and probably the whole future of Ferrari, his triumph is like a coronation," wrote the "Gazzetta dello Sport". The "Corriere dello Sport" described Leclerc as a phenomenon and saw "a race to forget for Vettel, who sinks deeper and deeper into his crisis". Also "La Stampa" drew this contrast and attested Vettel a "devastating performance".
Tuba player in metallica.
In all seriousness something has happened with the guy. He makes a lot of errors and his pace is slow. For couple of races now he has been miles off the pace of his team mate. Maybe Vettel needs guaranteed number 1 position in the team with preferential treatment so he gets the most out of himself. At red bull the cars between him and Webber were equal but the treatment surely wasn't with Helmut Marko's blatant favouritism. When that changed with Ricciardo maybe Vettel just thought Ferrari would be his next number 1 driver status haven. And it was. Kimi did not put a lot of political pressure to things in his way so Vettel got what he wanted. And vettel drove well for a while. But slowly he has crumbled back and deeper into his error prone ways as kimi did some fine drives. Leclerc is taking away vettel's number 1 driver spot and preferential treatment has mostly been switched around as well. Leclerc is winning races, Vettel is making stupid mistakes.
At ferrari the future in is Leclerc so where could Vettel go? Back to red bull? Helmut has a new golden boy in Verstappen and the only role left for Vettel there is the role of Webber. Same car, different rules and expectations. Mercedes? Why even consider Vettel? That leaves only the mid field teams. Renault has Ricciardo so I doubt Vettel really fancies a rematch. Mclaren is closed off. Alfa already has kimi. They want a future young talent in the other car. Maybe if Kimi quits Vettel could have a future at Sauber. Not sure if Vettel is interested in that though.
I say unless Ferrari takes him he retires.
Team change to Renault and Dan to Ferrari
He was doing mistakes at Red Bull as well. He is just a "all or nothing" driver imo. If car allows it, he is there, otherwise he drives quite risky.
Super Mario kart?
I got your point, simply put he's been going over car possibilities. Makes sense.
But then I remember Leclerc.
Has he got a better car ? And it's not one race only...
To be honest I would love for Vettel to go back to his own, he can be as fast as anyone once he returns to his own body from this ...spiritual journey he's, seems to, on now.
I also love his introvert personality. He reminds me of me. No, really... :-l
Forza Vetelle! As some here say.
Piquet who won 3 WDC's also got destabilized by a young kid and decided to retire at the end of the year. That young kid was Schumacher who only scored 5th and 6th in races, here we have Leclerc who scores wins where Vettel has none this year.
On the other hand, what does Vettel still have to proof to the world anyway? Go have some fun in endurance racing Seb, you'll do fine.
Him with Hamilton at Mercedes would be pretty cool.
Time to retire.
He is now a parent and I think (just me, myself) that seems to play on his outlook.
While EffWun is far safer than skiing perhaps the ongoing fate of one M. Schumacher might be at the back of his mind. I doubt there is a seat available for Vettel in another team, there are far too many young and talented drivers waiting for a drive and at far less cost. The time has come to take all those Euros he has stashed away and depart gracefully, there is life outside of EffWun.
Vettel cracks under pressure. The Red Bull cars he became 4 times world champion with were really extremely good. It's a lot easier drive if your car is half a second faster as the rest.
Vettel seems to need a car that absolutely fits his driving style and a car that is really, really strong.
Because every time he is i car, that cant keep up the whole season, he starts to overdrive the car. Result: Mistakes.
But that does not explain the whole lot of mistakes lately.
I believe that its a mental thing, too.
You probably have felt in in football(soccor), the losing team gets worse and the good team gains momentum.
That is until the good team gets some miracle strong result.
Vettel began to make big mistakes last season and lost the title. Now Hamilton is on top comfotably again while his new teammate is showing him how strong he is.
As a 4-time champion people expect strong results. Even more so at Ferrari. If you do a mistake, ok, but the sheer amont of mistakes will do some mental damage every time. Hard hits to the psyche.
Actually it is really similar to Hamiltons situation in the early 10s. Lots of incidents. Now he is at top and really relaxed. He can lose races, he knows he is still there. Hamilton and Vettel are the mental opposites right now and that is showing on track and in the standings.
Vettel can come back, but he man st ro it himself. If he cant deliver his time runs out. At least in F1
The reason why Vettel isn't up there in the standings is clearly down to the car and Ferrari doing a bad job in supporting their drivers properly (as in Q3). I don't get the fuzz tbh. Sure, Leclerc is an exceptional driver and Seb made some mistakes. But so did Leclerc and there have been races where Leclerc was nowhere near the performance of Vettel on raceday. Now he wins two in a row even aided by a blind eye of the stewards and suddenly Vettel needs to retire ... let's have this discussion at the end of 2020.
I don't really think that's a fair comparison. Vettel is a four-time world champion with years of F1 experience behind him, whereas Leclerc is essentially a rookie trying to prove himself to Ferrari and the F1 world. In other words, Vettel should know better than to be making some of the very basic, rookie mistakes he is currently making.
Potentially unpopular opinion coming up, but I don't particularly rate Vettel as a driver, and never have. Don't get me wrong, he's a very, very good driver... that's obvious or he wouldn't be in F1 at all. But is he great? No, he isn't. I can't stand Hamilton, but is Vettel on his level? Not even close. I don't think he's any better as a driver than half of the other drivers on the current or past F1 grids. And, as the last few years have shown, he is not a man who can deal with any real pressure anymore. In the past maybe he could, but give him a poke these days and he immediately folds. Most of that pressure is likely coming from himself, but that's another matter.
Will he win another championship? In my opinion, no. He's lost that chance now. He had some hope in previous years at Ferrari but messed it up. Now Leclerc is on the scene, I think his chances are minimal. Leclerc has far more natural talent and just needs some experience behind him before he will really shine. Add to that Verstappen's Red Bull creeping into the mix for a potential three-way battle next year for even more pressure, and I just don't think he has what it takes.
As Coulthard correctly pointed out in commentary last weekend, at Vettel's age he isn't going to get any faster. For me his time is pretty much done, and as for whether he will stay at Ferrari? No idea... I guess it will mainly depend on if Ferrari cave to what will surely be massive pressure from the Tifosi in coming months.
I honestly dont think ive seen a driver spin as often as Vettel in the last two years since... Well... I cant even think of one.
And: Vettel is a four times champion. Leclerc is nearly a rookie.
Yeah, still remembering how Hamilton - Alonso pairing turns out so well.
I would like to see him driving with his brother Fabian in GT racing
He would go to Williams or just hang the gloves...
He's already old...