Is the United Kingdom a country?

[Bram Hengeveld]

Xose and I had a nice discussion on msn over this confusing subject. Which of the brits, or uk-ers can fill us in.

Is the UK a country or not?

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Here is a nice explanation for dummies : http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/britain.html

 

[Damian Henderson]

I started this of with xose

This will explain it easier then my sleepy brain though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom

 

[Xosé Estrada]

My point is... there is only one political entity: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

That's the nation, which has representants in ONU, UE and other organism in same way France, Germany or Spain has.

It's true in few sports there are not UK team but Scotland, Wales, England and N. Ireland ones, but that's only in sports where this countries federations are founders, like Rugby or Football, but it's an exception, for the rest you have a UK team (motors, olympics...)

This countries have their own parlaments and presidents, but same happens in Spain for instance, every Autonomous Community has their own parlament, president and independent elections, own police, own taxes system, own laws... in fact more independence than any of the UK countries regarding the UK itself.

This conversation comes from the fact that is naturally accepted that for simracing (not for real racing), you see drivers racing under Wales flag in international communities, but for example racing under Andalusian, Valencian or Catalonian flags for instance, are not allowed because are considered "regions". There is some kind of "privilege" with UK in this matter

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

There are eight accepted criteria used to determine whether an entity is an independent country (also known as a State with a capital \"s\") or not.


A country need only fail on one of the eight criteria to not meet the definition of independent country status. Scotland does not meet all eight criteria; it fails on six of the eight criteria...

1. Has space or territory that has internationally recognized boundaries (boundary disputes are OK).
   Yes, Scotland does have internationally recognized boundaries. Scotland is 78,133 square kilometers in area.
2. Has people who live there on an ongoing basis.
   Yes, according to the 2001 census, Scotland's population is 5,062,011.
3. Has economic activity and an organized economy. A country regulates foreign and domestic trade and issues money.
   Somewhat. Scotland certainly has economic activity and an organized economy; Scotland even has its own GDP (over 62 billion pounds as of 1998). However, Scotland does not regulate foreign or domestic trade, the Scottish Parliament is not authorized to do so.
   Under the terms of the Scotland Act 1998, the Scottish Parliament is able to pass laws on a range of issues known as \"devolved issues.\" The United Kingdom Parliament is able to act on \"reserved issues.\" Reserved issues include a variety of economic issues: fiscal, economic and monetary system; energy; common markets; and trade and industry.
   The Bank of Scotland does issue money but it prints the British pound on behalf of the central government.
4. Has the power of social engineering, such as education.
   Somewhat. The Scottish Parliament is able to control education, training, and social work (but not social security). However, this power was granted to Scotland by the UK Parliament.
5. Has a transportation system for moving goods and people.
   Somewhat. Scotland itself has a transportation system but the system is not fully under Scottish control. The Scottish Parliament controls some aspects of transportation, including the Scottish road network, bus policy and ports and harbors while the UK Parliament controls railways, transport safety and regulation. Again, Scotland's power was granted by the UK Parliament.
6. Has a government that provides public services and police power.
   Somewhat. The Scottish Parliament has the ability to control law and home affairs (including most aspects of criminal and civil law, the prosecution system and the courts) as well as the police and fire services. The UK Parliament controls defense and national security across the United Kingdom. Again, Scotland's power was granted to Scotland by the UK Parliament.
7. Has sovereignty. No other State should have power over the country's territory.
   No. The United Kingdom Parliament definitely has power over Scotland's territory.
8. Has external recognition. A country has been \"voted into the club\" by other countries.
   No. Scotland does not have external recognition nor does Scotland have its own embassies in other independent countries.

Thus, as you can plainly see, Scotland (nor Wales, nor Northern Ireland, nor England itself) is not an independent country nor is it a State. However, Scotland is most certainly a nation of people living in an internal division of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Source | About.com

 

[Matthew Gutteridge]

Right. As I am from the UK, I think I can solve this one.
No, the UK is NOT a country. It is a collection of countries, which sometimes club together for such things as sporting events etc.
The full name of the UK is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Great Britain is the three mainland countries in the UK: England, Scotland and Wales. It only becomes The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland when Northern Ireland is added into the equation.
As for the eight rules of a country, each country follows each of those rules. Allow me to explain.

From the Norman Conquest of England in 1067–1283, Wales came under the control of the English, and today, make the decisions over it (and hence fulfilling the 8 criteria for it) as if it were England.
In 1603, after the death of Elizabeth I of England, the James VI of Scotland inherited the throne and became James I of England. England, Wales and Scotland became unified through a leader, and nowadays England fulfills the 8 criteria for Scotland too, working it's economy, education, health, borders etc (give or take a Scottish Parliament )
In 1800, Ireland (the whole of it) decided to merge with The United Kingdom, and was therefore controlled by the English Parliament. However, this angered certain leaders in Ireland and so in 1919, after over 100 years of total unification, Ireland split into a northern half, incorperating 6 counties to be ruled from Belfast, and a southern half, to be ruled from Dublin. The Northern Half stayed on in the UK and the southern half gained independence. This is the history of the UK.
In conclusion, the UK is not a country. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are countries.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

So I can go to the Wales embassy?

There is a Wales UN representation?

Sorry but there is not, from a legal perspective, Wales is a region of the United Kingdom, and is not a Sovereign country.

Note that I'm not discussing this from a "feelings" or cultural point, if you go to many places in Spain you will find a lot of people saying Catalonia, for example, is a country itself, but I'm talking from a legal and actual perspective.

Catalonia (and all the 17 Autonomous Communities) if they want) has his own education, official languages, taxes, security forces, parliament, president... and more autonomy (this is a fact you can compare) that Wales or Scotland from the UK, but you can't go to a Catalonian embassy in same way you can't go to Wales embassy.

Sorry but no, Wales is not a recognised independent nation, is a region of UK from a legal perspective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states

http://www.un.org/en/members/index.shtml

http://europa.eu/abc/european_countries/index_en.htm


Cya!.

 

[David Garcia]

I agree with Xosé, and in my view it is not other country there apart of UK.

Look, the one on the right is David Coulthard:

Sorry, maybe I was too obvious posting a Coulthard pic? I really don´t mather about this issue, but lñaws are there for something, and there is where Xosé is pointing at. Only that.

 

[Neil Gault]

I agree with Xosé, and in my view it is not other country there apart of UK.

speaking as a Scot "what a load of bollocks"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland wikipedia never lies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales

 

[David Garcia]

No serioulsy, it is a politycal matter that I really don´t like. So I prefeer to avoid talking about it.

If wikipedia recognize Scotland as a country and UN don´t, then it is a country definetly.

 

[David Buxton]

The British embassy covers Wales, Scotland and England.... So I believe.

 

[Neil Gault]

this thread should never had gotten past the start line as it is answered itself is in the initial question

how? well kingdom in the English language refers to a "state" with a monarch (king or queen) at it's head

 

[Xosé Estrada]

The British embassy covers Wales, Scotland and England.... So I believe.

First of all, I don't pretend to make a political thing out of this, I'm not talking about what it should be or what it's fair, was just curious about the subject, I understand there are different feelings about it but as you know I'm from Spain so I'm neutral on it.

For instance, is not possible England enters a war and Scotland don't, and that's proof of they are same "country" in legal terms.

 

[Omer Said]

As i remember, in 2000 - 2001 or earlier years, Coulthard's flag was scottish. What is changed ? Why is he using UK now ?

 

[Christopher Aponte]

Guys guys
you are making a big error here

UK is not a country
It is an island


anyhow...for me it is more recognition as UK as a whole country like Xosé pointed out

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

This is seriously a great discussion I also though that officially England, Scotland etc were sovereign countries, but if you start looking at the facts, especially the official criteria there are not

Check out this list of sovereign states:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states

No England!

Check what they list as the UK:
Widely recognized member of the UN and the EU. The United Kingdom is a Commonwealth realm divided into four parts.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

Because it doesnt exist officially a country called Scotland, so FIA don't recognise that as possibility, so is not allowed to do it.

 

[Ryan Callan]

UK is a nation. England etc are countries.

 

[Neil Gault]

Because it doesnt exist officially a country called Scotland, so FIA don't recognise that as possibility, so is not allowed to do it.

LOL wtf do they FIA know about anything they struggle to get to grips with their own subjects never mind anything else :bla:

 

[Ross Balfour]

No one cares about Northern Ireland anyway

We are a country but are in the United Kingdom. Its like Finland, Sweden etc. Being part of Scandanavia