Is the ACC AI really this bad...

[racinjoe013]

This is not mean to be a bashing thread. It's more of a 'hope there is something I can do' thread. Bought ACC awhile back but never really dove into it yet. Decided to take this weekend to really try it out and see how it differs from other sims. Spent some time getting the settings right for my average system and turning some practice laps to get comfortable with how the cars handle. Love the driving feel and sounds. Graphics i'm iffy on. Some of it is that I can't max the graphics settings because of my system and some of it is the Unreal Engine was just a horrible idea to use for this game, but it just lacks something for me in the eye candy department. Doesn't look bad, but the colors and lighting don't quite look right. Too HDR looking for my tastes.

Decided to try my first race and man what a boring time that was. The AI has no race instinct in them. Even when I missed my marks and left an opening, they just refuse to pass you. I even intentionally left openings in the turns to see what they'd do and they wouldn't take them. It's almost like they are too cautious and have some built in mechanism to not make contact with you so if you get out of the racing line a bit, they think you are going to crash and back off. I double checked and have aggression set to 100% so i'm not using some low AI setting. I know AC gets a bad rap for it's AI, but I actually get some pretty good races with them. I thought ACC would be similar since it's Kunos based, but it's light years behind what I get in AC.

So is this just the way ACC's AI is or is there something I can do by editing a file or something to improve the AI? Or does Kunos just think of this as an online game and didn't put much effort into the AI?

 

[Slapped]

It's quite rough and wild there, so not everyone's cup of tea (definitely not mine) unless you enjoy "rubbing" and bumping. And on some tracks it just acts stupid, like flying off the track missing brake point, etc.

I'm from the BTCC school of racing, so it fits me, completely

 

[Not_Lifting_off]

I'm from the BTCC school of racing, so it fits me, completely

Real racing

 

[Lafrente]

Then I'm guessing that you haven't tried R3E, or any of the F1 series from Codemasters.



Because some of us honestly can't be arsed to have put up with these low level meatsacks online. Not to mention that on an average server there's always a couple of these things with pings that make them look like a junkie going through cold turkey and ultimately ruining everybody's race.

The difference is in AC series AI uses the same physics as the player. In F1 AI cars are just graphical/physical objects moving along the track. So F1 AI can use that infinite grip to make a move and back off at 15g after realizing it's gonna be a crash. And you're like "wow that was a good try, didn't crash into me either. Great AI!!" While ACC AI can't risk it because there's no "ramp up the grip to 999 and back off".

And casual servers will always have noobs & laggers. That's not abnormal. You can't just jump into a casual server and expect great racers, that's reserved for leagues/pre-registered races.

 

[Sil]

They are far from perfect, that is crystal clear. The AI cannot give you the same racing experience as human opponents can. I doubt this will change anytime soon (also in other sims).

Dont worry, AI will be much better once the devs use "neural AI". but its not for tomorow i'am afraid

 

[Matt_SI]

I'm a software developer and I can tell you that making a good AI is PAIN.

That said, I am watching one streamer playing F1. v2018 AI was OK. Then they made a huge improvement in v2019. They were aware of you, they would defend their position, break attack is they couldn't get alongside,... Very good improvement.

At that time I would say my personal opinion was that F1 v2019 had the best AI among racing games.

Then came v2020. AI-wise they went not one but two steps back. I can imagine what happened. Probably some other team got v2019 AI and they tried to make it work in v2020. And because there were new tracks, some physical model improvement, they were lost. Every improvement you could see from v2018 to v2019 was gone. v2020 has one of the most stupid AI.

In my free time I play ACC. I'm not an alien so 95/95 is on some tracks too much. But watching replays AI drives OK. They attack, defend, down the grid AI are making more mistakes than those in front,... It's not bad AI. It's OK AI. But if you are observing them for some time you'll notice some patterns you could "exploit" - like when you are overtaking or defending.

Currently, you cannot make better than OKish AI. You can make them believable. AI part of a sim is responsible for many cars on the track - each with a little different parameters. If you want some complex AI you'll need a lot more dev time and probably different versions of AI (each with its own behavior) which in turn you'll need more CPU power to have them racing on the track.

 

[theguy69]

If you want some complex AI you'll need a lot more dev time and probably different versions of AI (each with its own behavior) which in turn you'll need more CPU power to have them racing on the track.

But f1 2020 has great ai compared to acc and is much easier on the cpu. Making great AI doesn't necessarily have to mean huge cpu usage. Rfactor 2 has great AI but less cp usage compared to acc AI.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

But f1 2020 has great ai compared to acc and is much easier on the cpu. Making great AI doesn't necessarily have to mean huge cpu usage. Rfactor 2 has great AI but less cp usage compared to acc AI.

Do you see that huge CPU load on all cores or single one? ACC just like AC use same physics for AI as for player car, not simplified like other sims, so physics calculation takes some extra. BUT, it is multithreaded and spread across multiple cores.
For rendering there is single thread and usually this is the first one to bottleneck, pegging single core. For me personally AI calculation was never an issue with 8 core CPU, did you try monitoring CPU usage across cores.
Most of the times extra CPU load from additional opponent cars, AI or MP, comes not from physics calculation but from the fact that they are complex objects that need to be rendered thus introducing extra load on that single rendering thread.

 

[theguy69]

Do you see that huge CPU load on all cores or single one? ACC just like AC use same physics for AI as for player car, not simplified like other sims, so physics calculation takes some extra. BUT, it is multithreaded and spread across multiple cores.
For rendering there is single thread and usually this is the first one to bottleneck, pegging single core. For me personally AI calculation was never an issue with 8 core CPU, did you try monitoring CPU usage across cores.
Most of the times extra CPU load from additional opponent cars, AI or MP, comes not from physics calculation but from the fact that they are complex objects that need to be rendered thus introducing extra load on that single rendering thread.

I have i7 4770k. You failed to understand my point. I don't have much problems with cpu usage. I was just saying you can give AI simplified physics which can make the actual AI logic easier to make especially for a game like ACC in which we don't have mods and only two classes of cars

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Making great AI doesn't necessarily have to mean huge cpu usage.

You failed to understand my point. I don't have much problems with cpu usage.

Hey, don't blame me, you contradict yourself.
I disagree that running AI on dumbed down physics automatically translates to better AI behavior, nor I think rFactor2 AI is in any way superior to ACC.

 

[Pulp Quango]

Then I'm guessing that you haven't tried R3E, or any of the F1 series from Codemasters.



Because some of us honestly can't be arsed to have put up with these low level meatsacks online. Not to mention that on an average server there's always a couple of these things with pings that make them look like a junkie going through cold turkey and ultimately ruining everybody's race.

Funny you should say that... racing against meatsacks cost me so much SA in ACC, in just two starts... I swore off... stopped racing online. Then in 4 starts v AI this weekend... nearly 20 points gone... I just don't even try to race anymore.. it's not worth it...

Looks like every tap attracts a penalty... whether against a human or AI... Which is kind of OK until an AI or meatsack spins you on the way up Kemmel at Spa, and you're collected by the whole field...

I genuinely give up. ACC is a hotlap sim, or some kind of masochism sim, unless you're absurdly talented, and I suspect, absurdly lucky...

 

[Slapped]

Funny you should say that... racing against meatsacks cost me so much SA in ACC, in just two starts... I swore off... stopped racing online. Then in 4 starts v AI this weekend... nearly 20 points gone... I just don't even try to race anymore.. it's not worth it...

Looks like every tap attracts a penalty... whether against a human or AI... Which is kind of OK until an AI or meatsack spins you on the way up Kemmel at Spa, and you're collected by the whole field...

I genuinely give up. ACC is a hotlap sim, or some kind of masochism sim, unless you're absurdly talented, and I suspect, absurdly lucky...

I have the SA and whatever turned off for offline racing, and although I tend to race within the spirit of the sport, I don't feel restricted nor feel the need to double think an opportunity - It makes for far better racing against the AI.

Although the SA system was with good intent, I do feel it's kind of castrated on-line racing with ACC, with the effect that people tend to be more interested in keeping their SA up than they are in winning the race, and this leads to a race without any racing going on. It also doesn't help that both drivers' SA suffers in the event of contact regardless of who is to blame.

Personally I'd favour a system that dishes out similar to real life penalties. For example minor contact is to be expected and as long as no driver gains or loses then it's just a racing incident and no penalties are applied. Depending on severity of infraction then 5, 10, 15 second, drive through, and DQ penalties could apply.

But then again nobody has developed an automated system which can apportion blame correctly, so we're left with this half arsed approach as it sort of works consistently from a technical point of view, but clearly doesn't work for racing.

 

[Pulp Quango]

I have the SA and whatever turned off for offline racing, and although I tend to race within the spirit of the sport, I don't feel restricted nor feel the need to double think an opportunity - It makes for far better racing against the AI.

Although the SA system was with good intent, I do feel it's kind of castrated on-line racing with ACC, with the effect that people tend to be more interested in keeping their SA up than they are in winning the race, and this leads to a race without any racing going on. It also doesn't help that both drivers' SA suffers in the event of contact regardless of who is to blame.

Personally I'd favour a system that dishes out similar to real life penalties. For example minor contact is to be expected and as long as no driver gains or loses then it's just a racing incident and no penalties are applied. Depending on severity of infraction then 5, 10, 15 second, drive through, and DQ penalties could apply.

But then again nobody has developed an automated system which can apportion blame correctly, so we're left with this half arsed approach as it sort of works consistently from a technical point of view, but clearly doesn't work for racing.

 

[Pulp Quango]

I agree... where it is, is almost the worst of all worlds, adding grind for SA, deterring racing but an open invite to griefers to create mayhem...

 

[SwannyUK]

I've found the AI really good at 98-100%.

Ditch them anyway and come join us for some fun club races soon. Keep an eye on the ACC club events page, hopefully have some fun stuff coming up.

 

[Pulp Quango]

I've found the AI really good at 98-100%.

Ditch them anyway and come join us for some fun club races soon. Keep an eye on the ACC club events page, hopefully have some fun stuff coming up.

Sadly that can't can't happen... For a whole bunch of reasons. Another time maybe... Also... I'm older and slower, than back when I used to race with you at GC...

 

[SwannyUK]

Sadly that can't can't happen... For a whole bunch of reasons. Another time maybe... Also... I'm older and slower, than back when I used to race with you at GC...

Ahhhhh, the GT Legends days at GC. The mini racing was the best fun!

 

[Pulp Quango]

Ahhhhh, the GT Legends days at GC. The mini racing was the best fun!

Herds of minis rampaging around... it was awesome. P&G 1275's were the nicest though

 

[theguy69]

Hey, don't blame me, you contradict yourself.
I disagree that running AI on dumbed down physics automatically translates to better AI behavior, nor I think rFactor2 AI is in any way superior to ACC.

Tuned rf2 AI is actually pretty good. They're aggressive and they defend on the straights too. You should try out the f1 1986 mod for rf2. AI behaviour is really good there imo. You might enjoy it!

 

[Pulp Quango]

Anyone else finding the AI even dumber after the latest update ?
Lap 2 Barcelona... following a car in midfield into the slow hairpin at the end of the back straight.... The two cars ahead of that car touch at the exit of the hairpin one leaving the track to the outside, the other leaving the track to the inside. The artificial moron in front of me, confronted with track where the obstructions ahead have ended up in the run off already, decides it's time to stop with nothing but clear track ahead.... Full... dead... stop... causing a pile up behind.... Oh.... and at least another 4 cars off, on dry track in lap 1, and another on lap 2...

What are they doing different and why does it never, ever work?

 

[Pulp Quango]

Weirdness... Since the last patch... the AI has behaved like a bunch of clones of Pastor Maldonado... but... only in certain circumstances... Fire up ACC off a clean boot... and it works... wondering if I'm guilty of blaming Kunos for a WIndows 10 issue... Personal experience.... worst trouble with AI seems to occur if I restart a race, when it appears they may no longer be able to even get around the pace lap... Quit the game, restart the game... same problem... Pastor Madonado AI....
Reboot the PC...? No issue.. the AI drives like humans who want to keep living...

I'm wondering about Windows 10 memory management and "garbage collection"

Very weird... but happy to be able to race something...