Is F1 a prison sentence for engine manufacturers?

[Torcano]

Well, current F1 era will not see any form of diversity when it comes to engine configuration like it was up until the 90s when you had the choice of entering with a 3L NA or 1.5L Turbo. If they had something like that happen now, big bank engine manufacturers like Renault, Merc and Honda will just cry like little babies and FIA can't risk losing the cash from any one of them. In the end it is all just a business, and current state of this business is dictated by companies that are being relatively incompetent when it comes to pushing out reliability for the engine configuration that THEY THEMSELVES opted for.

If in 2017 by the grace and blessing of the Almighty Flying Spaghetti Monster FIA did allow the choice for manufacturers to either use NA or turbo setups while sticking to specific power regulations like in the old days but still keep some aspect of fuel management in the game, without a shadow of a doubt half the field will turn to NA just because they are relatively cheaper and easier to build and inherently a bit more reliable as a result of their simplicity and would allow for other smaller manufacturers to get back into the sport full swing... but then we will have the other half of the field that will just be whining endlessly like spoiled brats about how the other kids don't play the same game as they do. And as noted above, these whiny kids are backed up by rich parents who are willing to dish out as much money as possible so that they get their way no matter what. I mean who doesn't like money, amirite... Bernie knows what I'm talking about.

Said this before and will say this again, F1 is bumbling around half-arsing everything like a proper village idiot while WEC's influence is growing bigger by the day and is showing them how real sophistication and tech progress can be achieved without being ultra restrictive for the engineers. The recent "everyone is a special snowflake" attitude era of F1 leading to this drab homologation of cars, where every single car looks the same, drives the same, sounds the same like the late v8 era...

This would be the complete opposite of what manufacturers like Merc, Honda and Renault actually want and I'm really surprised they can't spot this giant looming disaster because all they are doing by putting these huge blanket homologation rules is that in the end every single car will be the same and nobody will care about the manufacturers and only about the drivers. And then these very manufacturers will go back to whining about how they need diversity in the sport to stand out more. I think this is like a cycle that is about to start here guys.

EDIT - I gotta say, I love every single LMP1 "car" that is in WEC right now, I love the Audi for being a diesel and having that really eerie jet whoosh sound when it flies by, I love Porsche for having a screamy little V4, I love Toyota for staying NA and not going the turbo route, I love Nissan for being eccentric themselves and making a bonkers FWD layout for their car. Ask me which "car" I love in F1 currently and I can't think of a single one, maybe the Ferrari because I like Kimi and Vettel more than Hamliton and Rosberg... but then again you see that I care about the drivers more than their ride. Sigh FIA, why you so blind.

 

[anthony monteil]

Bring 'em back!

Clearly, someone who never heard the Ferrari 412T in real life cannot understand how boring F1 became. This is not an engine sound, it's music, it's art!

 

[vee10]

Bring 'em back!

I am proud to say I have both of those CD's in my collection. I don't think I will be ordering the current V6 turbo itunes edition.

I remember also my first time at Silverstone in 97 and hearing the V10's as they reverberated in chest going down hanger straight. That to me is what the pinnacle of motorsport is about.

Not being relevant or eco just being the most epic form of motorsport the engineers can make. If they don't do something soon F1 will be a irrelevance for the future generation. It needs to be a spectacle were people look at and go wow!

 

[Rob]

WEC had been done. It was called the American Le Mans Series. Now that NASCAR has its mits in it, they took away the LMP1 (or P1) class. WEC simply recycled the idea.

But I agree that you can't compare WEC to F1. WEC is all trendy in Europe now, I get that, but it's not going to dominate the world like F1. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the old ALMS had it about right, mixing endurance and sprint races. I agree that F1 will die a slow death if they don't get their act together, but IndyCar will take over, not WEC. WEC may be a fad in Europe for a while though. I've been watching it for 10 years. It started at Road Atlanta by Don Panos. No doubt, the racing is compelling, but he knew that attention spans were not conducive to making an endurance series a global phenomenon. Too bad more in the rest of the world didn't realize what a gem the ALMS was, but T.V. had a large part in that. Almost every major car manufacturer was in it at some point...and there were years that the LMP2 cars were beating the LMP1 cars at the tighter tracks. Great stuff indeed (Penske did this).

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

WEC had been done. It was called the American Le Mans Series. Now that NASCAR has its mits in it, they took away the LMP1 (or P1) class. WEC simply recycled the idea.

But I agree that you can't compare WEC to F1. WEC is all trendy in Europe now, I get that, but it's not going to dominate the world like F1. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the old ALMS had it about right, mixing endurance and sprint races. I agree that F1 will die a slow death if they don't get their act together, but IndyCar will take over, not WEC. WEC may be a fad in Europe for a while though. I've been watching it for 10 years. It started at Road Atlanta by Don Panos. No doubt, the racing is compelling, but he knew that attention spans were not conducive to making an endurance series a global phenomenon. Too bad more in the rest of the world didn't realize what a gem the ALMS was, but T.V. had a large part in that. Almost every major car manufacturer was in it at some point...and there were years that the LMP2 cars were beating the LMP1 cars at the tighter tracks. Great stuff indeed (Penske did this).

I dont think WEC would generally replace F1, but the more hardcore motorsport fans will more likely start watching it and maybe stop watching F1. It is a real shame what IMSA did to ALMS. I scrolled through the Long Beach race yesterday and such a small amount of cars doesnt do it for me. I dont like that concept of races where classes are missing. They lost some of the good LMP2 cars as well. In long beach there was only one real LMP2 car and they did such a bad job finishing so far behind in most likely the best P2 available right now and that was not down to BOP, but most of the good P2 teams are going, because the IMSA way of SC after SC means that it is close to impossible to win in a P2. They really need FCY, but I pretty much off topic now

 

[Lol77]

Anyone who sees a WEC race in the last few years will know that unless a car suddenly develops a multilap lap lead they are not endurance races anymore, they are full on 200% sprint races

They are saving fuel, they lift off throttle way too soon before end of straight comes, they save tyres. All that only because of less pitstops = better distance driven.
I don't think that's the meaning of sprint

 

[Torcano]

IndyCar will take over, not WEC. WEC may be a fad in Europe for a while though.

Those lines made me chuckle. But sorry... No, just no. There just isn't enough room in my house to roll around while laughing at the statement that Indy is the worthy successor to F1, and I actually like the series as a non American.

Calling one of the most technologically advanced, diverse and a series that is heavily participated by a plethora of manufacturers from all over world a "fad", good going there brother. I needed a good laugh before leaving for work. Too bad all the manufacturers don't see this oh-so clearly as a fad as you do... those poor people, how blind they really are to not notice it ... and looks like they are clearly in it for the long run, so be prepared for a fad with a long and illustrious life, oh the horror.

Nobody is saying WEC will replace F1, we are only showing the concern that recently F1 is trying really hard to be WEC and not being any good at it... it's like I'm good at making Indian food specifically but all of a sudden I decide that the people next door are having fun with fruit salads so I should make a salad too but without any fruit in it and replace custard with curry, is not a good idea that. People here are expressing that F1 is going through that weird teenager identity crisis phase, I'm sure it will pass once the current higher-ups get that alienating teams with unnecessary restrictions, not even talking about fans here in this discussion, is not good for the sport's health. xD

 

[Dux]

My opinion, I liked this article, this thought, but not that i agree with it fully. Therefore couldn't agree or disagree.

F1. Sport where the best 22 drivers of the world come and compete head to head for a single victory, for a glory, to leave their marks. You have half an hour, go and do your best. You and your flying ship. There is no driver to replace you, you don't have pause to sleep couple of hours. Its now or never.

Problem is, as soon one starts winning one two three or more in row people start complaining. It's the car it's this and that. So, i think we shouldn't be disappointed if someone is, like you said, making all cars be equal in horse power and weight etc. instead we should be happy right? We wont have those comments anymore.
But here we see the contrary, that someone like the author of this very well written article, does not agree with.

Me personally i want to see as much as possible, equal field in F1 and details to bring the difference. And for sure i'd rather wanna see chassis be the key instead the engine. It's the engine this year and look what's happening?

F1 has strict rules to keep them all as much as possible equal.
LMP1 is another thing. They run perhaps 1000km but they are configure to do so. They have much bigger radiators cooling systems what not. They concentrate more on enduring the race than taking out the maximum possible performances of the car, therefore not in 10 times reading this all over again i can agree that LMP1 series is something bigger than F1. They maybe have much bigger space but that's impossible in F1 and totally irrelevant in my opinion.

 

[Frederic Schornstein]

I guess the diffrence is, that despite you have to save fuel in WEC is very diffrent. In WEC you have a rule how much fuel you can use per lap instead of the whole race. So you cant do a Hamilton cruise around 30 Laps and then hammer it and use the saved fuel. If you do it in WEC you can make a longer stint, but you cant go as super fast as you like.
Second thing are the tires. In WEC a tire copes fine with a full stint of pushing the car and maybe two with a bit of saving. In F1 you can push 3 or 4 Laps 100% before the tire goes and everyone behind will ruin his tires as well. So in simple words in F1 you gain by driving pretty slow once you are in front, because you will have more fuel and tires. In WEC you will simply loose the lead to the next car. I have no problem with lift&coast, but in F1 they cruise through the corners as well.
A few years ago they had an onboard in Suzuka of Schumacher after a pit stop and the commentator thought he had an issue with the car, because he was going so slow in the S curves, but he was only bringing in his tires in without killing them WTF.
WEC cars are getting hammered except for the lifting for 6 to 24 hours ovetakin. lots of cars and are build to do it. F1 cars need to be rolled around for 1.5 hours on their own at the moment.

 

[Andrew Harper]

They are saving fuel, they lift off throttle way too soon before end of straight comes, they save tyres. All that only because of less pitstops = better distance driven.
I don't think that's the meaning of sprint

Hiya,

It depends on what you hear or read, I understand the reason why they partially "coast" into the corners is to charge the hybrid system (according to the Radio Le Mans interviews I've heard anyway)

The more engine braking they use into the corners the more it charges the hybrid setup. That's what you can hear on the Audi's. It uses a flywheel system to charge the batteries.

When air restrictors were removed from the cars, the ACO replaced this with a fuel requirement per lap that the car has to manage but it stills allows the cars to go almost flat out.

They were doing near qualifying times in the race so they weren't really taking it that easy! haha

But yes I understand where you're coming from

Remember we are talking about hybrid style drivetrains here, they require a different style of driving anyway. The LMP2 and GT classes are full on as well.

 

[H34d5h07]

Not really contributing to the thread or F1 per say, but I can't stand the cockpit sound of the Audi hybrid from the WEC. It doesn't even remotely sound like an engine. More like an broken fan. No, correction, more like a HDD. If this stuff gets carried over to the outside sound, that's the day I will stop watch motorsport. For me, half the pleasure to watch races is the sound. Something I also feel that many developers miss out on. I wanna feel my bone marrow shivers when I race. I wanna get terrified.

 

[Andrew Harper]

Not really contributing to the thread or F1 per say, but I can't stand the cockpit sound of the Audi hybrid from the WEC. It doesn't even remotely sound like an engine. More like an broken fan. No, correction, more like a HDD. If this stuff gets carried over to the outside sound, that's the day I will stop watch motorsport. For me, half the pleasure to watch races is the sound. Something I also feel that many developers miss out on. I wanna feel my bone marrow shivers when I race. I wanna get terrified.

No the Audi's are kind of spooky, because of the low revving diesel engine they are almost silent apart from the sounds of the tires and the rush of air over the aero.

It's ok though because 10 seconds later a trio of Ferrari 458's come along and burst your ear drums!

 

[H34d5h07]

No the Audi's are kind of spooky, because of the low revving diesel engine they are almost silent apart from the sounds of the tires and the rush of air over the aero.

It's ok though because 10 seconds later a trio of Ferrari 458's come along and burst your ear drums!

Haha, true dat

 

[Blkout]

By making all of the F1 cars the same you end up with an open wheel version of NASCAR, and I hate NASCAR.

 

[P*Funk]

By making all of the F1 cars the same you end up with an open wheel version of NASCAR, and I hate NASCAR.

Wouldn't that be more like IndyCar? Besides, I don't hate Indy. Its in fact the only way I can be coerced into watching oval racing of any kind.

 

[William Néron]

What I would love is seeing the golden age's (70s/80s) formula back.
Those were years of innovations, but also years were the driver would make the biggest difference.
With today's knowledge on how to keep drivers safe, but with the openess in R&D of the time, that would make for the ultimate motorsport in my opinion.

 

[Blkout]

Wouldn't that be more like IndyCar? Besides, I don't hate Indy. Its in fact the only way I can be coerced into watching oval racing of any kind.

I suppose, but Indy isn't all oval racing. Long Beach was this past weekend.

 

[P*Funk]

Yes, but the point is that Indy is interesting, even on an oval, whereas NASCAR is not. Only time I'm actually (barely) interested in NASCAR is when they do some event on a road circuit.

When it comes to racing entertainment I'm far more interested in the near spec quality of road or street course Indy than most of F1 in the modern regime. Or classic CART for that matter. That was some real interesting stuff.

 

[Ghoults]

I'm going to be brutally honest. The engines in wec and in f1 are imho disastrously boring. 1000hp? Not really. Any horsepower that come out from the kers is just there to increase the top speed of the car. It doesn't change anything about how the car drives out of corners compared to a 600hp car. Because the thing is the kers is designed to kick in after the corner when the tire grip exceeds the internal combustion engine power.

I personally think the hybrid cars are just incredibly boring concept. For that short burst of high nominal hp they are heavy and most of that power is either applied automatically when you are going straight. Either automatically or by press of a button.

To be brutally honest anyone who thinks drs is a bad thing should have the same opinion about the kers. Their function is exactly the same. Press a button and the car goes faster in a straight line.

If this hybrid tech nonsense keeps going electric racing cars will be the ones that bring back the true racing. Cars that have loads of power and are difficult to drive out of corners because all of that power is controlled by the throttle pedal. Press it too hard you get wheelspin! Not these boring cars with weak engines and a staight line speed boost button.

Electric is not the enemy of exciting racing. Hybrids are. The sooner the hybrids die the sooner we will have amazing racing back. Hopefully that will happen so that the kers units are dropped but probably what will happen is that the first big power fully electric cars will do it.

 

[Fernando Zart]

WEC, NASCAR and Isle of Man TT.
Who needs F1?