ingame FOV

[Steve Justice]

is there anyway of adjusting the FOV while in a race ?. i have downloaded a classic lotus and the fov is too high for me.

 

[morsify]

But you keep talking about everything in the scene except the outer edges of it, which is also relevant in our sim world - in other words, the monitor. Move the seat forward and you can see the view change at the edge of the screen. So you can see more or less of the view depending on your seat position, and that is PART of the field of view. It is NOT just about angle of view and focal length, it is ALSO about the AREA. It can be All three ingredients or any one of them. I cannot think of another way to say it, so I can add no more. But still I know that my field of view in my monitor WILL change if I move the seat forward or back (regardless of whether those other two factors are also changed).

 

[Bruce Leeroy]

If you consider the distance of your eyes to the screen then yes moving seat position will affect the perceived FOV...maybe the same as holding a photograph closer/further away!
Cool informative video on seat positioning.

If only he asked for POV help.

 

[ouvert]

But you keep talking about everything in the scene except the outer edges of it, which is also relevant in our sim world - in other words, the monitor. Move the seat forward and you can see the view change at the edge of the screen. So you can see more or less of the view depending on your seat position, and that is PART of the field of view. It is NOT just about angle of view and focal length, it is ALSO about the AREA. It can be All three ingredients or any one of them. I cannot think of another way to say it, so I can add no more. But still I know that my field of view in my monitor WILL change if I move the seat forward or back (regardless of whether those other two factors are also changed).

and that is where you are getting confused .. if the change of scene related to screen borders is induced by changing FOV (making it wider or narrow) than it si correct, but if it is caused by moving camera (moving seat inside car is nothing else than moving camera) than it has absolutly nothing to do with FOV .. at that is not something you can interpretate differently without being wrong ... so to keep scene related to border the same you would have to move seat forward and go wider with FOV (or go with seat back and make your FOV higher) .. two different variables

nice way you could understand is if you install GTR Evo, than by holding your mouse button and moving your mouse up or down you will change seat possition, if you press CTRL and than hold mouse button and move you mouse you will change FOV .. and you can nicely see the difference .. with changing FOV you are distorting image to fit bigger image in the same frame (in case of game frame is monitor, in case of camera it is sensor/film), with moving seat you are moving frame forward and backward ...

BRUCE LEEroy: "maybe the same as holding a photograph closer/further away!"
and that is exacty proving my point .. holding photo closer/furher is not changing FOV by any means (btw your eyes have kind of constant FOV little bit complicated by pheripheral vision .. so good luck changing that without hurting yourself )

 

[Bruce Leeroy]

BRUCE LEEroy: "maybe the same as holding a photograph closer/further away!"
and that is exacty proving my point .. holding photo closer/furher is not changing FOV by any means (btw your eyes have kind of constant FOV little bit complicated by pheripheral vision .. so good luck changing that without hurting yourself )

Agreed but in the context of sim racing it's a fairly mute point...for example I want my monitor to be a window into the sim world...my PC wheel is life sized and close to the monitor and the distance from my eyes onto the window of a virtual world so my FOV and POV are critical to an enjoyable experience..the moment i move the seat back or forward changes the perceived FOV.
If i want a photograph to have a "realistic" FOV I move it closer or further away, similar to moving the seat position POV within rFactor.

 

[morsify]

Look, here is a quote from Wiki. I am not saying it is the gospel, but it shows why I think both opinions are right.

'The field of view (also field of vision, abbreviated FOV) is the extent of the observable world that is seen at any given moment. In case of optical instruments or sensors it is a solid angle through which a detector is sensitive to electromagnetic radiation'.

The first part of the sentence shows why I am right - 'it is the extent of the observable world that is seen at any given moment'. The extent of mine changes within my monitor as I move the seat forward or back.

The second part shows your (also correct) interpretation - 'in case of optical instruments it is a solid angle'...The extent of yours changes as you change the focal length of your lens.

As you would say, Tadaa

 

[ouvert]

BRUCE: well yes .. that why I said that ": setting correct FOV based on your distance from monitor is another thing"
and that is why you don`t just move your seat to correct FOV (cause it doesn`t change it) but you have to change to FOV in settings (for example to 35-40 for medium sized screen relatively close to eyes) and than use the seat adjustement to align position of ingame picture to your real wheel position ..
So you are changing FOV with FOV setting to have it correct (believable, that it feels natural)
And than you change only the position of camera (ingame seat position) to place it so it fits to your wheel, or to be in a position where you have desirable view from inside of car ...

KEITH: formulation on wiki is unforutanately misleading the observable world is not to be ment as a things (objects, scenery) you can see at the moment but more as a frame or space that is filling your sensor (wheter it is your eye, camera sensor, in game case monitor .. )

 

[spyros papad]

keith the extent of visible world wont change when moving seat. youre still seeing the same proportion of world, just a different part of it. its not a relative value. its the perception of it because of the cockpit that changes. u see less cockpit but more distant objects. thats what bruce said: POV but still same FOV.

 

[ouvert]

SPYROS: oh .. i though Bruces POV was a joke reffering to term used to classify a pornographic movie in which the filming is done by one of the actors

 

[spyros papad]

well porn directors obviously know how to set fov correctly! they have to please the audience

 

[ouvert]

yeah .. if only simracing was that simple

 

[morsify]

It is just round in circles now.
When I move the in-car seat back or forward I can see the view increase (or reduce) outside the car at the edges of my monitor. i.e. the size of my view within the monitor is changing. That is what I mean and as far as I am concerned it IS happening, whatever any of us choose to call it. It may not be the 'photographic' meaning of 'field of view', (and just to be clear, I do not mean the perspective of the objects within the view or perceived distance between objects, I never claimed that) but it IS simply that the viewed area across my monitor gets bigger or smaller, so for instance I can see more of the garage walls. And that is an ingredient of any 'field of view'.

 

[ouvert]

OK Keith ... well at least it will make it simplier for you to adjust FOV and you have the benefit of being able to do it ingame .. I have to go to menu
I would consider this question to be answered more than enough and it is up to everyone to take from it what he wants thanks for keeping it civilized and see ya in another thread

 

[Bruce Leeroy]

Point Of View vs Field Of View.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GFTgkibl7DU#t=30

 

[vee10]

My motto on FOV.

 

[spyros papad]

It is just round in circles now.
When I move the in-car seat back or forward I can see the view increase (or reduce) outside the car at the edges of my monitor. i.e. the size of my view within the monitor is changing. That is what I mean and as far as I am concerned it IS happening, whatever any of us choose to call it. It may not be the 'photographic' meaning of 'field of view', (and just to be clear, I do not mean the perspective of the objects within the view or perceived distance between objects, I never claimed that) but it IS simply that the viewed area across my monitor gets bigger or smaller, so for instance I can see more of the garage walls. And that is an ingredient of any 'field of view'.

u see more garage because youre changing your point of view which is a relative value connected to your world position. like in real world. eyes have a fixed fov under constant light intensity deriving from the respective pupil radius. if u stand in the garage u see the walls. if u walk towards its opening u cant see the walls

 

[ouvert]

one last post

most important reason to use proper FOV adujustment is so you have correct compresion of world and distances appears like you would expect them to appear in real life (to set it to the value that feel right, not that to the value that FOV calculator will spit out) .. helps to hit apex, to judge distances, etc .. and that is something you can`t achieve by moving your seat (which is really only ment to ajdust your view out of car) ..

 

[Paul Bennett]

Point Of View vs Field Of View.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GFTgkibl7DU#t=30

When I was working my way down the page the "Father Ted" scene popped in my head as well

 

[morsify]

When I was working my way down the page the "Father Ted" scene popped in my head as well

LOL But the cows are not small, I can just see more of them. (sorry)

 

[William Wester]

Good discussion, there is a difference between the GSCE Vertical FOV option and moving the seat's position. It is good for those new to the game to understand the difference, especially for triple screen users.