Illegal Mods - How would I know?

[Kevin Jay]

This question was asked in the Porsche Payware thread but never answered.
How would the average simmer without any inside info know what is "legal' or 'illegal'?
When I download a mod, I have know idea where the objects came from or if permission was given by the original producer of the objects, or even who the original person is.

 

[Gergo Panker]

You can't because it's pretty much impossible to judge - and prove - whether an otherwise scratch-made model uses "inspiration" from official content, and realistically speaking, I imagine that pretty much every modder at some point resorts to "educating" themselves, because the documentation for new features is always several steps behind and this can be an alluring shortcut. You cannot really avoid that but also that's not the key issue here, this can be tolerated as long as it's not releasing the exact same data but part of the (concealed) process of figuring things out to create different content in the end.

What you can avoid though more easily, and what this topic is more about I think, is downloading mods that use ripped models. For that you can check the official forums as most legit mods usually have project threads over there or even here on RD or only download cars made by trusted modders/teams.

 

[Brownninja97]

Ok so if it's illegal to open ACD files and even more to distribute them when modded how would modders even get started? And then why is this 458 Black edition of McQueen is still available and downloaded over 8,000 times without any problems? Must be then that nobody including Kunos really don't care about that "illegal" aspect of their content?

well there is the formula k which technically should teach you everything. Of course damn near every modder i know have done something a little dodgy in the call for knowledge. I dont recommend using "that" program to decrypt the .acds but it a thing that is very hard to stop. Curiosity kills the cat as its said.

 

[Grand Tourist]

That is what I tend to keep in honour apart from that single Porsche mod because well. ...one can't have a line-up of supercars without a Porsche in it. Though I do dislike its sound.
Anyway I repeatedly contacted Kunos to install an upgrade feature like Gran Turismo has to be able to tune your car to track worthy. But as they refused even to answer I think it is just normal people seek hail into data modding to have their way. It is great to have a game that lets modders go their way but without decent career mode or any power / track upgrades the sim is still at best a single hot lapper or online racing league for the hard core simmer. Why they think it is ready for console I have no clue. GT, NFS and Forza will eat them alive when the console community won't be allowed to upgrade their rides or use mods. I played GT1 to GT5 over 500,000km so I have the right background to speak about this. What is the game about when they just randomly add cars that don't belong to any competition except FIA GT nor can be tuned to fit one? That's why I "mod " my cars so they fit in a same division to have competitions and not just hotlap around and around. Kunos will suffer losses on PS and XBox if they let the things just be as they are now. Not my problem though, I've got my super AC version of the game just as I want it.

 

[Brownninja97]

Do take in mind that anything that will effect cars has to be stated in the license, as its a new feature Kunos would have to go back to all the manufactures and tell them about it. not sure if that would cost more or not.

My friend was in a similar situation a while back, he was making a helicopter game sort of loosely based on the truck simulator thing and he licensed a helicopter with his own money(guy's parents are rich so not a problem) but he wanted to add an upgrade system very similar to what world of tanks or war thunder do however the license holders contacted him about it saying it breached the contract. I can only assume they didnt want their logo on a helicopter not using all original parts without him paying more.

Im not 100% sure if its the same for Kunos but i think it could be.

 

[Olivier Prenten]

So what about the content proposed by assettocorsa.club? Legal or not?

 

[Radu Oros]

So what about the content proposed by assettocorsa.club? Legal or not?

Plenty of cars and tracks in there are legit, meaning you can also find them in RD and AC's forum modding sections.
You can verify some of those by attempting to download, and they link the source to racedepartment website. But other downloads can still be linked to mods hosted on megaupload, mediafire, etc. which doesn't tell whether they are legit or not, unless you know them from RD downloads and AC forums.

 

[LilSki]

So what about the content proposed by assettocorsa.club? Legal or not?

Depends. Pretty sure my track is on there which is 100% legal even using real name. I put my track on RD and within minutes it was on every site out there.

 

[Angus94]

Simple answer: You can't.

But if it's a real world car or track then you can be 99.9% sure that the modder does not hold the license for it and therefore the mod is basically illegal.

Here we are in an ethic conflict.
Should i now remove all the mod tracks in GSCE/AC?
As long as you don't sell it or you as user somehow make profit because of it i think it's not that big of an issue.

If you of course sell something you don't have the license for ... that's against the law.
And as a consumer you better not buy from not trustworthy sources.

i realize its too big of an issue to raise here but i just want to touch on another aspect......"Intellectual Property"

 

[Lily Starfox]

The real question is...
Recently I downloaded what looks like apparently an illegal track of Estoril. (I'm not even sure)
Problem is, it looks 200x more photorealistic than the "legal" one...
Do you seriously think I'm going to delete it? lol

Also, 99,99% of illegal mods are free, unlike what people here say...
I never paid for any mod.
If one of them is actually well-made and realistic... I am NOT going to delete it... lol

I don't know if the people here who brag about having a "clean" Assetto Corsa are saying the truth or not, but... If they do, one thing is sure, I pity them cos they're missing out so much. lol

 

[Grand Tourist]

The real question is...
Recently I downloaded what looks like apparently an illegal track of Estoril. (I'm not even sure)
Problem is, it looks 200x more photorealistic than the "legal" one...
Do you seriously think I'm going to delete it? lol

Also, 99,99% of illegal mods are free, unlike what people here say...
I never paid for any mod.
If one of them is actually well-made and realistic... I am NOT going to delete it... lol

I don't know if the people here who brag about having a "clean" Assetto Corsa are saying the truth or not, but... If they do, one thing is sure, I pity them cos they're missing out so much. lol

Couldn't agree more....and I dare to take it a step further....Assetto Corsa wouldn't even survive without (illegal) mods. As the game doesn't offer a decent career mode, only one decent competition class (GT) and a rather compact car and track content, it needs the mod community for a wider diversity and bigger depth of the the game content. As much as I hate the shortcomings, as much as I love the possibilities and potential, as well as the carnography.

 

[Grand Tourist]

Do take in mind that anything that will effect cars has to be stated in the license, as its a new feature Kunos would have to go back to all the manufactures and tell them about it. not sure if that would cost more or not.

My friend was in a similar situation a while back, he was making a helicopter game sort of loosely based on the truck simulator thing and he licensed a helicopter with his own money(guy's parents are rich so not a problem) but he wanted to add an upgrade system very similar to what world of tanks or war thunder do however the license holders contacted him about it saying it breached the contract. I can only assume they didnt want their logo on a helicopter not using all original parts without him paying more.

Im not 100% sure if its the same for Kunos but i think it could be.

I understand that, though I personally think sportscar manufacturors shouldn't take themselves so seriously, after all they just provide recreational transport devices for big kids called men and what harm is there that their product is being upgraded in a game created for another childish group of men who just want to imitate virtually what the first group of men have....
Licences are sometimes a poisonous gift for game developpers, but one can't do without to create a game of course. I just wonder why Gran Turismo is capable of achieving this from their very first release of the game and others seem not to.....is it really Always about money?

 

[Grand Tourist]

Edit

 

[Raikku]

If mod is good enough, I simply don't give a damn about its legality. And there's has been, during all these sim racing years, many times just stupid little reasons why some mods had got "illegal" stamp.

 

[AndrewBo]

If mod is good enough, I simply don't give a damn about its legality.

Well, good to know.......

 

[ears]

Simple procedure.

If it's an F1 track, and it's not part of AC core content, and not a clearly modded one (I can think of maybe Montreal and Hockenheim that are scratch built F1 track mods for AC) then Google ' Coedmasters F1 gameplay (insert track name here)' and watch some Youtube videos. It's very likely that you'll recognise the track. I think most of them are from F1 2013 but there are some F1 2014 ones appearing now.

Case in point - @Lily Starfox - recognise this?

There is a dilemma here and this video demonstrates it perfectly. Nice content, terrible physics. Are they even physics?

So if I make sure that I own the original game that the content was ripped from, and go out and buy it if I don't own it - even if I'll never play it - then use its content in another game, this is not legal but at least, at some moral level, a little more acceptable.

If I buy an album from Amazon, they don't care whether I play it on a hifi, an Mp3 player or in the car. It's the content that I've paid for.

This is similar to URD's approach now - they produce models and then make them available on multiple platforms. OK you need to buy it for both, but at least you can buy it for both.

I have tried some (illegally) converted tracks and actually if the original content creators were to convert those tracks themselves and make them available, I would buy them. Of course it would mean, to an extent, that they'd have to admit that their own game is rubbish, so it's probably not going to happen.

 

[ears]

As an interesting comparison, here's an example of that same track converted into AC. You can question the morals and legality, but the actual quality of conversion seems very high.

 

[Lily Starfox]

Wow is that really the same track?
It sure has been improved like crazy...
Also, F1 2013 looks like s*** compared to Assetto Corsa. lol
Washed out colors, unrealistic white balance...
AC filters work miracles, as usual.

Another great video about that track, Estoril 90s =>

I want to point out something though.
I criticized the legal version of this track, but I was talking about a quite old one.
It's now completely outdated by the one which has been uploaded on RT lately. (Estoril version 0.6)
It's almost as good as the illegal conversion.

Edit : nevermind... Apparently it has been deleted too? It was illegal too? Gee...
See? Mod is right... How can we know it's illegal or not? sigh...

 

[seanvdburg]

I prefer legal mods over ripped content as they are usually much better built and really a piece made by the community for the community. But in some instances like Porsche cars or tracks like Suzuka there is no legal mod out there, and the better rips give me something to play with until something better arrives.

If you really want to avoid ripped cars, detecting them should not be hard as they usually drive like crap, and look ugly in terms of textures, despite the high polycount. There are some exceptions though, where physics and sounds are made from scratch and more effort seems to have gone in the conversion. Tracks are a bit more difficult, but unauthorised conversions tend to have a low resolution mesh, giving you very nasty force feedback and a boring experience.

 

[Lily Starfox]

If you really want to avoid ripped cars, detecting them should not be hard as they usually drive like crap, and look ugly in terms of textures, despite the high polycount.

I wonder why everybody always spread this stereotype about ripped cars.
90% of ripped cars I have look almost as good as Kunos ones.
Most rips by "Smallblockhero"(mainly old cars too!!!) looks almost BETTER than Kunos cars.
"S3R1U5" rips look better than most mods on RD too... lol
And they handle better than recent legal mods on RD like the Honda NSX or Renault 5...
Try them!

The only ones I found which were uber s*** were from Assetto Garage.
And strangely everybody talk about them. lol

 

[InsaneOzzie]

If you're against illegal mods that's your decision, if you're not, that's also your decision, if you don't care either way, well, that's your decision too.

But I think we also need to consider how far our hobby has advanced due to modding, legal or illegal, personally I feel modding from both sides of the debate has advanced our hobby to the levels we have today, basically there are good and bad points to modding, same as there are good & bad points to politics, petrochemical products, nuclear power etc etc etc.

It all boils down to personal morals & ethics IMO, this debate will continue as long as modding is part of our hobby. The only realistic point to make here is, "you can't stop illegal content", unless you take the S3S/Raceroom AG approach of zero modability by keeping all content online so it can't be reverse engineered, and eventually ripped/modded.
But then imagine how dull some sims would be without mods.

Cheers