I have deleted ACC yesterday

Kevin Troschinski · Dec 22, 2020

Hi,

as the title says i have done something i thought i would never do.
Sorry i have choosen the topic-theme intentionally to generate clics like a boulevard paper

Some folks are talking about ACC as the next gen sim, with the best physics and ffb out there beside rF2.

Unfortunately with my wheel (t300 ferrari alcantara) i can`t confirm that for myself. And i am pretty happy with my wheel, knowing that is not a pro gear like for example Direct Drive wheels.

Yes the game feels good, sounds good and looks good. But for me it does not feel any better than AC, R3E, AMS2 - my go to games with most playtime (AC far ahead).

Each of them feels different and has his strengts, but i like AC still most. ACC has just a lack of detail for me. The driving itself is just boring. (Yes i have setup my wheel properly, i am doing that over 15 years).

While the other 3 games has pretty much content and also decent graphics, sounds ACC can not compete in the content discipline, its obvious i do not have reasons to play this game

So i wonder if maybe ACC is "made" and optimized primary for those high-end direct drive wheels ?
Thats like my conclusion .... how do u guys think/feel about that?

Are there guys outside with cheeper wheels like t300, logitech G series and so on which can fully enjoy the games physics/ffb ?

Its just me feeling not enough to like it?

Thanks in advance for some discussion

eco2006 · Dec 24, 2020

Gevatter said:
It's OK to not like something.

Really, even in the game specific forums, i did not know that.

Kevin Troschinski · Dec 25, 2020

Hey i never said: "i don`t like it" I am just sayin in short version: "Its not the holy grail of sims for me, like its supposed to be for many others.
Thats it. And the main question/discussion was about, if its maybe because of a middle class wheel.

Gevatter · Dec 25, 2020

Kevin Troschinski said:
Hey i never said: "i don`t like it" I am just sayin in short version: "Its not the holy grail of sims for me, like its supposed to be for many others.
Thats it. And the main question/discussion was about, if its maybe because of a middle class wheel.

Yeah I get that, and my comment wasn't meant to be snarky. You got fed up with it enough to unsinstall it. I was there as well, just with other sims in my case.

If you want to keep trying to make ACC's FFB work for you with your wheel because you want to play the game, by all means keep it up. Don't just keep trying because everybody says it's the best, that just leads to frustration.

Play what makes you happy regardless of what other peolpe say

Fat-Alfie · Dec 25, 2020

I understand where Kevin was coming from. I remember when Wheel Checking and LUTs were the next big thing, and as much as I wanted it to feel better, I never really got on with LUTs for AC. The more I tried and the more I fiddled with my wheel (T500RS at the time), the more fake it felt. But everyone said that LUTs were the way to go, so I thought it must be me.

In the end I removed the LUT and went back to plain FFB settings straight out of AC and learned to love it. I guess what I am saying is, don't always believe the hype and accept that we all have different tastes or ideas of what is 'right', and make sure you listen to your own feedback as much as anyone else's on the forum.

Richard Dastardly · Dec 25, 2020

eco2006 said:
Yeah, that may be it. If you drive a real car and concentrate on what you really feel in the wheel when going trough bumps or rumble strips, it is not that much.

Yes, but the problem there is you feel so much through your arse that you're not getting sitting in your PC chair - that has to be communicated to you somehow, and the most detailed way is via some sort of artificial wheel feel. Stefano has said in the past that he doesn't like driver head movement ( from various forces acting on the virtual driver ), but small amounts of that also help my immersion ( I'm very good at spacial recognition anyway, so the car cockpit being offset slightly is not a problem ).

graham.w.stephen · Dec 25, 2020

Ive raced karts (kz2) and cars for the past 30 years and I’ve played racing sims from the early days of gp legends, gtr2, etc. I don’t get all the hype around ACC. I find the cars to be dull and unresponsive. Especially under throttle - feels too arcade like to me. Even dirtrally 2 is far more enjoyable than ACC. Personally, raceroom and rfactor 2 are in a different league altogether.

Deleted member 197115 · Dec 25, 2020

graham.w.stephen said:
Ive raced karts (kz2) and cars for the past 30 years and I’ve played racing sims from the early days of gp legends, gtr2, etc. I don’t get all the hype around ACC. I find the cars to be dull and unresponsive. Especially under throttle - feels too arcade like to me. Even dirtrally 2 is far more enjoyable than ACC. Personally, raceroom and rfactor 2 are in a different league altogether.

You registered just to say that in your first post on Christmas day. Grinch, is that you?

Richard Dastardly · Dec 25, 2020

Raceroom.... right, moving on.

Oddly enough some of the rest of us have raced a few things too. *No* sim is anything like racing a real car - just do what you enjoy.

StefanoCasillo · Dec 26, 2020

Richard Dastardly said:
Stefano has said in the past that he doesn't like driver head movement

nope
I said if you are looking for performance, control and understanding of what the virtual car is doing then head movement is very detrimental.

I totally agree that it increases the "immersion factor" but it's important to understand it comes with obvious prices to pay.

As usual with these things, moderate usage is probably the best answer.

Neilski · Dec 26, 2020

I haven't driven ACC anything like as much as AC, but after struggling to get to grips with it during the training phase, I noticed one particular "qualitative" difference between it and AC that was causing me to struggle: the different response to turning the steering wheel beyond the sweet spot.

I'm still not 100% sure if it was down to the FFB response or the tyre models. What I do know is that when in ACC, if I turned the wheel the "same amount" as I did in AC to try and find the peak grip, I was turning it too far. The clue was in the CC figure. When I forced myself to turn it less (which felt all wrong) my times improved and my CC got much higher.

Of course, I then went back to AC with that habit and got significantly slower!

After a while I more or less settled into treating the two sims differently but I'm still not quite as keen on ACC.

Gergo Panker · Dec 26, 2020

You most likely overturn in AC too, it just doesn't punish you enough for it.

Neilski · Dec 26, 2020

Gergo Panker said:
You most likely overturn in AC too, it just doesn't punish you enough for it.

Well you are quite likely correct but in one AC car-track combination a few months back (IIRC it was a 4WD car) I found that my times were improved by turning the wheel still further than I had been doing.
This discovery was totally accidental. I botched a corner and the lap was stuffed, so I was being silly; I entered another corner too fast and turned the wheel way past the peak (or so I thought) to scrub the speed and was stunned to see my delta going deeply into the green...

Fat-Alfie · Dec 26, 2020

You probably just need a new motherboard

After_Midnight · Dec 26, 2020

Gergo Panker said:
You most likely overturn in AC too, it just doesn't punish you enough for it.

"Our development team will return to work on January 4th. Take care and see you all in the new year!"
So stay away

Happy Holidays

RasmusP · Jan 2, 2021

Fat-Alfie said:
I understand where Kevin was coming from. I remember when Wheel Checking and LUTs were the next big thing, and as much as I wanted it to feel better, I never really got on with LUTs for AC. The more I tried and the more I fiddled with my wheel (T500RS at the time), the more fake it felt. But everyone said that LUTs were the way to go, so I thought it must be me.

In the end I removed the LUT and went back to plain FFB settings straight out of AC and learned to love it. I guess what I am saying is, don't always believe the hype and accept that we all have different tastes or ideas of what is 'right', and make sure you listen to your own feedback as much as anyone else's on the forum.

All the hype about the luts..oh I remember it! Don't forget to put damper and spring to 0!!!
Cause nobody likes a not used at all ffb channel (spring) and a "standing still" resistance that deactivates above 5 km/h (damper). Both totally kill all the good ffb when going 200 km/h!

How do so many people think that engineers would build wheels with non-linear force output?
However "free spinning" resistance might not be a linear resistance, which causes the wheelcheck curve to look how it looks.
People need to understand that ffb output doesn't need to be in perfect linear relation to how far the wheel will rotate whithout continuous ffb.

Anyway, LUTs are great for doing one thing:
- getting rid of dead zones, which is only really a thing for Logitech wheels. Massive game changer for my g27 when I finally managed to get a tight center position without any notch throughout chicanes.
The normal minimum force setting was always too much and not enough at the same time...

Neilski said:
I haven't driven ACC anything like as much as AC, but after struggling to get to grips with it during the training phase, I noticed one particular "qualitative" difference between it and AC that was causing me to struggle: the different response to turning the steering wheel beyond the sweet spot.

I'm still not 100% sure if it was down to the FFB response or the tyre models. What I do know is that when in ACC, if I turned the wheel the "same amount" as I did in AC to try and find the peak grip, I was turning it too far. The clue was in the CC figure. When I forced myself to turn it less (which felt all wrong) my times improved and my CC got much higher.

Of course, I then went back to AC with that habit and got significantly slower!
After a while I more or less settled into treating the two sims differently but I'm still not quite as keen on ACC.

Can't say much about over turning but I love acc for one thing:
The cars feel strong, planted, massive and grippy. Yes, some "details" are not that pronounced and it's not like balancing on a slack line but I just love that it's a bit more raw and the cars feels like I'd imagine them in real life.
I can also mostly correct my mistakes without spinning out or crashing. They'll cost time, but it stays manageable.

I don't feel the car as connected as in other sims but it's the only sim where driving a modern race car actually feels like a modern race car.
Easy to drive "slowly", very difficult to drive really fast. TC and ABS are just awesome and the steering feels stiff and massive.

Drove it quite a lot with my g27 and I am still of the same opinion with my csw 2.5!

To give all Sims I know a punchline:
- ac feels "just nice" but once the rear slides, it slides and I spin.

- raceroom feels very good until you notice you drive on a flat plane on all tracks.

- rf2 feels like riding a sponge with infinite details. I basically can't spin but instead I can very nicely drift the gt3 cars because I just feel the car so well. Brake and you'll feel the front end, accelerate and you'll really feel the rear end. Definitely a joy to drive but it still feels like a wobbling sponge.

- pcars is great and weird, depending on how much that tyre likes you today.

- ams: yeeehaaa, everything feels like taming a rocket that came alive. Not sure a modern race car feels like a rodeo though

Sk3ptik0n · Jan 11, 2021

Here is what I think. Why uninstall it? I just came back to Simracing after a 4 years hiatus, I built a new computer for work and the idea of setting up everything again gave me the hives, plus I had to rebuild my wheel (long story).
Anywho, my wife actually encouraged me to get back into it so I did and I discovered ACC.
Great. At first I was a bit taken aback, it felt weird, but then again, all of them felt weird. I realized how many little things I had evolved over the years to get the right feeling with my gear and I was really far away from it.
It's now been two weeks I have been testing ACC, AC, and pretty much every sim out there save for iRacing. I am getting back into it and while ACC "career" is not the style I used to prefer, I decided to give it a shot.
I have my own opinion on the game, as I do with all the other games, but I don't see a reason to uninstall any game even if I won't be racing it for a while. Why?

ACC seems to me a perfectly capable sim and I do like GT racing a lot, so it fits me. I totally understand it is not everyone's cup of tea. It'd be weird if it was.
It's possible I'll get tired of it at some point and focus on some other sim. We'll see, but aside from disk space issues, I don't understand why would anyone uninstall it. It's already bought and paid for, there is no monthly fee, why not keep it?
Again, if it's an issue of disk space, then sure. Steam is nice that way, but other than that I don't understand the logic.
By the same token, I always disliked the tribalism endemic in the sport (or hobby, whatever). If I like ACC, why do I need to put down those that like RF2? Or iRacing? Can I like both?
BTW, I am not accusing anyone here of tribalism, the OP especially. I am just making an observation based at what I saw when I was a lot more active in the sport. It always puzzled me how some people took time out of their day to criticize other people choices of driving game.
If someone likes GRID and [lays it everyday, who am I to judge?
In fact, I am not judging the uninstallation of ACC by the OP. I am simply puzzled by it and since the OP actually asked a question on what we think I am responding, but otherwise I am completely agnostic as far as judgment is concerned. It's literally none of my business.

Lafrente · Feb 3, 2021

StefanoCasillo said:
how weird would be a for a software to be "aimed at high end DD devices" when nobody in the dev team had DD wheels
Perhaps Aris have one now (don't know) but it's just an nonsense sentence nevertheless.

I can't pinpoint what it is, hell it might even be graphical, maybe, but ACC feels somewhat dull. Rain driving is amazing, by far best in the business, but on dry it always feels like front tyres are riding on glass surface with little bit of oil on it. Cars feel light. In AC you feel the grip, and the rubber biting the asphalt, or tyres starting to lose traction because you pushed that bit too much. In ACC, it's not even easy to feel the difference if you are pushing too much or not.

I think you kinda got the leash too loose on your boys in ACC development. Yes all those rain, drying of the asphalt, dynamic scenarios, multiplayer, UI, loading times, graphics, tracks are better but in terms of plain driving I can't say ACC feels better than AC.

RedBarchetta · Feb 4, 2021

RasmusP said:
To give all Sims I know a punchline:

- ac feels "just nice" but once the rear slides, it slides and I spin.

- raceroom feels very good until you notice you drive on a flat plane on all tracks.

- rf2 feels like riding a sponge with infinite details. I basically can't spin but instead I can very nicely drift the gt3 cars because I just feel the car so well. Brake and you'll feel the front end, accelerate and you'll really feel the rear end. Definitely a joy to drive but it still feels like a wobbling sponge.

- pcars is great and weird, depending on how much that tyre likes you today.

- ams: yeeehaaa, everything feels like taming a rocket that came alive. Not sure a modern race car feels like a rodeo though